They're Still Out There! 22 22

[linmoth]

Dan, thanks! I think that’s a topic for the Silver Age boards as it may bore the guys here. Maybe in a couple of weeks! I’m going through my collection  not many WP’s left but I’m going through the communications I had with  the person who discovered it. Was a great read. Same with the PAC Coast. Both were great guys Carl passed away to soon. I feel like I could pick up the phone today and speak with the WPA guy and even though I haven’t spoke to him in 8 yrs or so we could go on like we spoke yesterday.

[october]

1 hour ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Hey you.  Where you been MrBedrock

Yes, I'm sorry but it does dampen my enthusiasm.  You can say I still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but it makes a difference to me.

and this “before” and “after” pic makes it look like someone went inside this book to the centerfold and pushed the staple back out. I defer to the knowledge of others, but is that a coincidental benefit to a simple press?

and I’m not saying I don’t want these books. I want em all. 
 

im just saying it makes a difference to me

This is a historical book and deserves a premium. 

It's the first time in history that an indented staple was fixed, rather than caused, by CCS. 

[Sarg]

19 hours ago, Bronty said:

but its so clearly correct.   I remember reading the assertion that it was feldstein and right away it was like my brain said "OMG of course it is... how could this ever have been called a Baker cover.."

They should correct that.

PL 17 certainly looks very Feldstein-esque. But he had no recollection of drawing a PL cover. I don't think anyone actually showed him #17 and asked him point blank, however. 

"Artists unknown -- Feldstein may have been involved somehow, though he doesn't remember" is not the most satisfying artist attribution. 

[batman_fan]

If you aren't assuming every book raw or graded has been pressed, you have not been paying attention the last 10 years.  If it is a high dollar book, assume it has been pressed 2 to 10 times.

[tth2]

1 hour ago, batman_fan said:

If you aren't assuming every book raw or graded has been pressed, you have not been paying attention the last 10 years.  If it is a high dollar book, assume it has been pressed 2 to 10 times.

I believe the Jon Berk books, at the time they were auctioned off by CC, were untouched.  

So any book bought in that auction and that is still in the same slab is untouched. 

[Mmehdy]

we now know some of the books, Cap 1..wre 1941...are there any 1938/39 books?

[William-James88]

8 hours ago, MasterChief said:

Dean and I happened to be discussing the collection right after a few of the teaser photos dropped in the thread. He asked my opinion as to whether or not the books had been manipulated. I mentioned that they appeared to be untouched as pressable defects were apparent here and there. I went on to say that the images looked to be pre-CGC submission, perhaps taken when the collection was examined. That thought became obvious with the reveal of the certified Catman #28. While we only have one example to go on so far for comparison purposes, many realize that the likelihood of the collection, in whole or in part, getting the treatment is a bonafide reality.

The doctoring of the Catman #28 is particularly interesting, in my opinion. The structure of that book has been altered from its original conditional state as discovered, to that of a perceived appearance post-print production book from the 40s. As mentioned, the book perked my curiosity so much so I sprung for the grader notes. There is no mention of work performed on the book in the notes. Just the typical obtuse annotations. The exception being, the "pedigree coding" (whatever that means) for the distributor mark.

I don't really see any issue here. All they did was press the book so that it would present better, since the tear is less visible now and the book more even looking. The tear wasn't sealed, no harm done. The notes would not denote that the book was pressed, which they never do. And now the book looks closer to what it looked like originally before the staple snagged and tore the book a bit. The person selling these certainly wants them looking their best, pressing them all would be in their best interest. And if I buy any of them, it will save me the trouble of going for CPR.
 

[RareHighGrade]

1 hour ago, tth2 said:

I believe the Jon Berk books, at the time they were auctioned off by CC, were untouched.  

So any book bought in that auction and that is still in the same slab is untouched. 

This and the fact the books were tightly graded are among many reasons Berk books are so highly prized.  The overgrading and unnecessary pressing-related flaws of the Promise books will likely stigmatize them rather than increase their sales potential.

Edited May 1, 2021 by RareHighGrade

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, tth2 said:

I believe the Jon Berk books, at the time they were auctioned off by CC, were untouched.  

So any book bought in that auction and that is still in the same slab is untouched. 

So, are you trying to imply that if we play the grading game by their rules and keep the CCG ownership happy (i.e. you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours ), a random book like say the Church copy of Mystery Men 3  could possibly have its potential maximized from a CGC 9.6 grade up to a CGC 9.8 grade?  

And if you are really good to them and they grade it according to the Promise Collection grading standards, it might even go all the way up to a grade of CGC 9.9.     

Edited May 1, 2021 by lou_fine

[Rip]

1 hour ago, William-James88 said:

technically speaking, the church books are indeed overgraded, but no one cares. Them having writing on the cover would knock points down by any grading standard. And yet, those markings are not at all considered when grading the book since they are part of the pedigree notations. And people are paying more because of the pedigree, and the writing (which would technically be detrimental) is instead a plus since it goes with the sought after pedigree. 

Adamstrange is correct. There are numerous examples of 9.6 and 9.8 copies from non-pedigrees with writing on the front. In fact I can think of an example where there is small first name written on the front cover, (one of the  "Eldon" books) yet still get a 9.8 without CGC having to assign it a pedigree. I've had CGC grade more than a few high grade GA copies over the years with writing on them. And usually they had no effect on the final grade. Feel free to check the Heritage site to see for yourself. It might take you a little bit because so many of the 9.6's and 9.8's are pedigrees, but they are certainly there.

Also, not saying I don't think there looks to be a bit of overgrading here and there, but one thing people do not see from a scan very well is the preservation quality. Often pedigrees get a small bump from the amazing preservation.

[lou_fine]

On 4/29/2021 at 7:36 PM, batman_fan said:

Not part of the Promise Collection but this one is pretty interesting.

 

 

Hey Tim;  @tth2

Since we really know that you have now seen the light and want to join the "in" crowd in terms of the crypto investors and NFT traders, why don't we cut out the middle man here and avoid paying all of those Heritage fees by having you and me work out a private deal here.  

I'll take that old Church copy of Mystery Men 3 with that nasty pungent Mile High smell   off your hands and in return I'll simply give you want you need to show up your new friends in terms of a Transformers 1 and a Shogun Warriors 1.  Oh heck, I'll make sure it's a no-brainer steal of a deal for you and also toss in a copy of Rom 1 to make it a 3 for 1 deal and one that's definitely highly in your favor.    

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, William-James88 said:

On 4/29/2021 at 3:07 PM, Sarg said:

Thanks. But what about books that are not pedigrees? Does writing on the cover then impact the grade in a negative way? 

Yes, it does

How about the books that have signatures scrawled all over the cover, and with some of them looking more like an ugly smudge mark than an actual signature?  

Now, a lot of those are definite eyesores and yet they still seem to get the high grades, especially those in the yellow holders.  

[lou_fine]

13 minutes ago, Rip said:

In fact I can think of an example where there is small first name written on the front cover, (one of the  "Eldon" books) yet still get a 9.8 without CGC having to assign it a pedigree.

Ummmm................the Eldon books have been designated as an offfical pedigree by CGC back when they introduced their new pedigee label:  

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/7577/

Now, if possible, can you provide us with a link to this CGC 9.8 graded Eldon book because for the life of me, I can't think of one that would grade that high as virtually all of the Eldon books (similar to the Harold Curtis and Cookville pedigrees) are in the CGC 5.0 to CGC 9.0 (if that) grade range as far as I can remember.    

[Rip]

21 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Ummmm................the Eldon books have been designated as an offfical pedigree by CGC back when they introduced their new pedigee label:  

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/article/7577/

Now, if possible, can you provide us with a link to this CGC 9.8 graded Eldon book because for the life of me, I can't think of one that would grade that high as virtually all of the Eldon books (similar to the Harold Curtis and Cookville pedigrees) are in the CGC 5.0 to CGC 9.0 (if that) grade range as far as I can remember.    

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superman-35-dc-1945-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7204-91079.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

You're welcome. As you can see this was also before it was an official pedigree.

Edited May 1, 2021 by Rip

[Rip]

Anybody else? Who wants some? YOU!

[William-James88]

28 minutes ago, Rip said:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superman-35-dc-1945-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7204-91079.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

 

You're welcome. As you can see this was also before it was an official pedigree.

So Henry Cavill could have kept his moustache and it would still be comic accurate

[Bumble Kitty]

15 hours ago, szav said:

My official wild guess as to the meaning of the pedigree name is that someone made a promise to keep buying books for someone during their absence, only that person never returned.  That could explain the pristine condition of the later books vs the lower grades on the earlier ones.

Several people have privately teased at some awesome backstory here, but have otherwise been tight lipped...can't wait to see the reveal from HA which will happen soon enough.

I'm glad to hear that.  I was afraid I would have to wait for the Pedigree book to read about the backstory.

[Inaflash]

9 minutes ago, Bumble Kitty said:

I'm glad to hear that.  I was afraid I would have to wait for the Pedigree book to read about the backstory.

The promised pedigree book?

[Pickie]

My, my, so many miswraps, so many spine ticks ...

I hear this is the OO's undercopy collection and only a promise of what's to come ... 

[ChillMan]

The Church newsstand wrote 4-1 on the cover as the arrival date for this one....