They're Still Out There! 22 22

[Robot Man]

41 minutes ago, Pickie said:

I look forward to seeing the pictures of the place where the books were stored, the chests, the cupboards (?) ... and to learning about the details of the storage conditions.

Everything has been documented properly, I take it? 

So would I and it would be smart on HA’s part to do so. I doubt it will happen though.

I remember talking to Chuck about Edgar’s “closet”. He said it buckled his knees when they opened the door and he saw those stacks and smelled that smell. Of course he, like most of us would want to move those books as fast as possible into our van before we woke up or the heirs changed their minds. Documenting it would probably the last thing on our minds. 

I have to say, there is Edgar’s stash and there are all the rest. All other pedigrees are simply runners up to the throne...

[Mmehdy]

46 minutes ago, Pickie said:

I look forward to seeing the pictures of the place where the books were stored, the chests, the cupboards (?) ... and to learning about the details of the storage conditions.

Everything has been documented properly, I take it? 

I think the story will be released by HA....but the marketing dept will have its say!

[Robot Man]

Wern’t there pictures of the Lost Valley collection in it’s undisturbed state? 

One of my best finds was an old large unplugged refrigerator just packed with 1947-1954 books in a bad area of town. I did take a picture of it before I removed the books but lost the photo in a fire...

[Mr. Lady Luck]

So here's an interesting thought...

If every one of the 5,000 comics were acquired by Heritage, and if Heritage sends every book through CGC for grading, authenticating, encapsulating, etc, then there won't be a single copy from this entire pedigree collection that is untouched from cleaning and pressing. Unlike all the other GA pedigrees, there will be no original copies in existence for any of us to truly appreciate the care in which these books have been stored for decades... 

Also...

Happy Mother's Day!

Edited May 9, 2021 by Mr. Lady Luck

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

This entire collection and thread validates my strategy of looking for sweet copies in the 7.0-8.0 range for a decent price. Heck I've bought copies as nice as the Promise collection for probably 10% of what these will go for and I can read them too!

[buttock]

5 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

I'm wondering whether what CGC did with these books rises to the level of criminal activity. It seems like there must have been some kind of sweetheart deal between CGC and Heritage. There's no other way to account for the grades. Books with corners ripped off getting 9.0 grades? Really? Overgraded books are common enough, but I have never seen this many books this overgraded. It might be a difficult case to prove in court, but I don't think it would be impossible. It would require a lot of effort to educate a jury, that's all. The company that owns a stake in CGC consistently seems to get the loosest grades. Smells like collusion to me; it could even be a RICO case.

Where's Ken White when you need him.  

[Jayman]

1 hour ago, Mr. Lady Luck said:

So here's an interesting thought...

If every one of the 5,000 comics were acquired by Heritage, and if Heritage sends every book through CGC for grading, authenticating, encapsulating, etc, then there won't be a single copy from this entire pedigree collection that is untouched from cleaning and pressing. Unlike all the other GA pedigrees, there will be no original copies in existence for any of us to truly appreciate the care in which these books have been stored for decades... 

Also...

Happy Mother's Day!

When the origin story is revealed, I really hope we hear that a few were kept by the OO’s family for memory sake. So there’s still a chance there will still be some in original condition. 

[jimbo_7071]

2 minutes ago, Jayman said:

When the origin story is revealed, I really hope we hear that a few were kept by the OO’s family for memory sake. So there’s still a chance there will still be some in original condition. 

Doubtful. Kept pristine for 75 years by someone who loved the books, ruined in 30 days by Heritage and their gang of well-dressed scumbags.

[Mmehdy]

2 hours ago, Robot Man said:

I suspect that this will be truer than any other time in our hobby. There is a lot of non old time collector money fueling high prices right now. I suspect that crazy label chasers will be disappointed down the road when they decide to cash in on their investments.

Anybody else remember the Billy Wright’s? I know a lot of commotion was caused by an embezzler but a lot of folks paid up a bit too much and lost some money. This cool pedigree has sadly, suffered a bit ever since. 

apple vs orange here, Billys copies were not close to the overall high grade of this collection and Billy's was 1/15 the size of this collection, so one bidder could make a significant impact here, not over 5000 OO Ga books, unless you own oil wells...

[Gatsby77]

50 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

apple vs orange here, Billys copies were not close to the overall high grade of this collection and Billy's was 1/15 the size of this collection, so one bidder could make a significant impact here, not over 5000 OO Ga books, unless you own oil wells...

I think you seriously underestimate the depth of recent new money with deep pockets that has recently entered the hobby without any true sense of grading, proportion, or history.

I also think we're in a collectibles bubble brought on by a year of quarantine - where there are a *lot* of wealthy people who have been unable to travel instead choosing to spend their money on collectibles. As others have noted, this could be the *best* time to bring these books to market.

I still think we'll see many of these books that sell for record prices this year re-sell over the next 1-5 years for significantly less.

You're right:~400 books is not the same as 5,000 books, but there also relatively few of the 1938-1941 mega keys present in this collection (at least so far). And it's easy to over-pay for "highest graded" (by label) non-key and not see it appreciate the way a comparable top 20 Golden Age key would.

[Mmehdy]

39 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

I think you seriously underestimate the depth of recent new money with deep pockets that has recently entered the hobby without any true sense of grading, proportion, or history.

I also think we're in a collectibles bubble brought on by a year of quarantine - where there are a *lot* of wealthy people who have been unable to travel instead choosing to spend their money on collectibles. As others have noted, this could be the *best* time to bring these books to market.

I still think we'll see many of these books that sell for record prices this year re-sell over the next 1-5 years for significantly less.

You're right:~400 books is not the same as 5,000 books, but there also relatively few of the 1938-1941 mega keys present in this collection (at least so far). And it's easy to over-pay for "highest graded" (by label) non-key and not see it appreciate the way a comparable top 20 Golden Age key would.

I agree there is probable underestimating of the new "turks" on the block money...but being there and spending it is a different thing...and not all of those might not catch on in time for the first auction...until the HA marketing department  uses auction results to hype up this collection even more. Neither one of us knows that answer until auction time, however if this was some "ultra grade SA" find they would all be in...MU movies etc. I do not think the young know, of even care about say All Winners #19... I do, and it is one the best books out there and I discovered it for $25 cents when I picked up my copy of Fantasy Masterpieces on the newsstand in the 1960's. My advice is solid, if your position is to be believed, buy at the first auction before all those "new money" with deep pockets come all in.

Any time for this collection, quality and condition in the last 50 years would be a great time, the one thing I agree with you is at this time, this collection can be promoted and sold all over the world, not just the RBCC or on a San Diego comic convention table with 3000 people in attendance. spot  on in this comment.

I disagree that a lot of books will be resold one year or even two years from the last hammer on the auction. There will, I guarantee a number of whale collectors who will buy these great books and not sell them for any price, certainly not less than they  paid for.  One dealer told me last week, he is gonna buy like 40/50 of them and forget he even owns them for 6/7 years and them bring them to market. For the new speculators, who have not ability to hold or ever care that these great GA books are once in lifetime, they will treat these as widgets, will them dump..some will, the smart ones will hang in there. The collectors today who purchase these books while there are still 5000 or down to 4000 or whatever are see the highest appreciation of value and demand. If you buy selectively, chose you battle for the books you really want, and have staying power to hold them, the promise collection is the best thing out there for serious GA collectors.

I am right, 5000 books is not 367 Billy Wright books with a convicted embezzler hitting bid on everyone of them and seeing those quick resales.

I would not consider Cap#1 no mega keys, but in the unique condition these books are in, a lot of them will become 50K, 100K world record price books will create new levels of GA pricing that will be great for all GA collectors, including under graded copies.

 Gasby, I see a win-win here with nobody losing out.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Sarg]

15 hours ago, Courageous Cat said:

9.0? Wow! just simply WOW!!!!

 https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/sun-girl-2-the-promise-collection-pedigree-marvel-1948-cgc-vf-nm-90-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7244-175265.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515#

 

 

This appears to be the only book in "The Promise Collection" without writing on the cover. 

[Sarg]

3 hours ago, 50YrsCollctngCmcs said:

This entire collection and thread validates my strategy of looking for sweet copies in the 7.0-8.0 range for a decent price. Heck I've bought copies as nice as the Promise collection for probably 10% of what these will go for and I can read them too!

Good idea, and sound advice. I'm completely turned off by "pedigree" collections, the obscene grade inflation, and the Hollywood hype, myself. I'll stick with 3.0 copies with no writing, thanks. 

[Straw-Man]

36 minutes ago, Sarg said:

Good idea, and sound advice. I'm completely turned off by "pedigree" collections, the obscene grade inflation, and the Hollywood hype, myself. I'll stick with 3.0 copies with no writing, thanks. 

you're welcome; from all of us.

[tth2]

6 hours ago, Timely said:

Evans joked that if CBCS graded the collection there would be a lot of them graded 10. I responded saying there are no 10 Golden Age or Silver Age CBCS books as of now, only Bronze Age to current !

Because no one would submit a GA or SA book that they legitimately thought might get a 9.9 or 10.0 to CBCS, because they know the market will automatically discount the CBCS grade. 

[Timely]

12 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Because no one would submit a GA or SA book that they legitimately thought might get a 9.9 or 10.0 to CBCS, because they know the market will automatically discount the CBCS grade. 

That’s so sad. I think you’ve all proven on this thread no grading company is immune to imperfection. We all strive to be the best we can, right? I know I do!

[tth2]

2 minutes ago, Timely said:

16 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Because no one would submit a GA or SA book that they legitimately thought might get a 9.9 or 10.0 to CBCS, because they know the market will automatically discount the CBCS grade. 

That’s so sad. I think you’ve all proven on this thread no grading company is immune to imperfection. We all strive to be the best we can, right? I know I do!

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with CBCS's grading.  But my observation from Heritage's auctions is that the market consistently discounts their grades from the equivalent CGC grade.

[sfcityduck]

1 hour ago, tth2 said:

I'm not saying whether I agree or disagree with CBCS's grading.  But my observation from Heritage's auctions is that the market consistently discounts their grades from the equivalent CGC grade.

Maybe not anymore.

[Robot Man]

6 hours ago, Mr. Lady Luck said:

So here's an interesting thought...

If every one of the 5,000 comics were acquired by Heritage, and if Heritage sends every book through CGC for grading, authenticating, encapsulating, etc, then there won't be a single copy from this entire pedigree collection that is untouched from cleaning and pressing. Unlike all the other GA pedigrees, there will be no original copies in existence for any of us to truly appreciate the care in which these books have been stored for decades... 

Also...

Happy Mother's Day!

That is a sad and sobering thought. Sad that the original owners of this collection put them away and took such incredible care of them. And then in a few months the whole collection is turned into a “Frankencollection” by it’s new owners. All in the name of the almighty buck. 

Sorry if I come across as a whiner. I appreciate money as much as the next guy. I am saying this as a “true collector” and obviously a dying breed in this hobby. 

I might or might not go for a few I really like but will always know their status and will hold them in a lot less esteem than so many of the truly great pedigrees that have proceeded it...

[innocuous]

6 hours ago, Robot Man said:

I remember talking to Chuck about Edgar’s “closet”. He said it buckled his knees when they opened the door and he saw those stacks and smelled that smell. 

I remember the small the first time I owned a Church book. That's why I'm curious about this new collection. If I win one, it will be because I agree with the grade, so I can crack it out. (All the more reason I may take a trip to Dallas, plus, I have a ton of airline miles I haven't used in 18 months.