They're Still Out There! 22 22

[tth2]

7 hours ago, Badger said:

Just curious, but when you say things like this do you envision Jim Halperin walking the halls of CGC and saying, "That's a mighty fine book you're grading there. Be a shame if it were to be less than, oh say, a 9.8." How, exactly, do you think CGC lets the graders know that they should be lenient on a certain number of books? Is the grading carde marked? Does an email go out? Team meeting? Do you envision a tell-all book detailing all of the shady practices?

[path4play]

On 5/11/2021 at 1:02 PM, sfcityduck said:

I think there were more exceptions than folks sometimes realize.  Comics were a form of entertainment on par with t.v. and video games today.  5,000 comics was $500 dollars new.  Spread over more than ten years, as the Promise collection is, we're talking around $50 a year on average ($4.11 a month).  I'm sure the volumes purchased increased as kids got older and maybe got jobs (so less a month early on and more later).  Many many kids had comic collections, that's why many GA comics are relatively common today despite that huge number of collections that were tossed out by parents, recycled, etc.  For example:

* Edgar Church (20,000 books 1930s to 1950s) was an artist who worked for the telephone company.

* Lamont Larson (1,000 books 1936-1940) was a middle class kid in Nebraska.

* The OO of the Chinatown collection (1,300 books late 40s to early 50s) worked as a cook on a Ferry boat.

* Leroy Mackie and his brother (Cooktown - 5,000 comics, late 30s to early 50s) were also, I believe, middle class kids.

And we know of other big collections, some dispersed and others still intact, which are not "pedigrees" (yet):

* Dave Wigransky (5,000+ comics from 1941-1948) was a middle class kid in D.C.

* Bangzoom's WTG (2,500 comics late 1930s to early 1940s) was a middle class kid in D.C.

And, of course, we have the examples of the first generation collectors, including those who founded fandom or became prominent in SF (like Roy Thomas, Jerry Bails, Don Thompson, Harlan Ellison, etc.) who all assembled massive collections as kids, many of which were dispersed before pedigrees became a thing.  Don't get me wrong, some of them may well have come from well to do families.  Which just shows that kids collecting comics spanned the demographics.

And, most importantly, they were passionate.  Kids had a lot options for their dimes, but some clearly chose comics over most of those other options.

 

My 'ole man accumulated about a 1,000 books in about a 7 year period from late 40's to early 50's ('47-'53) = ~3 comics a week.  Spilling out of a pile from a closet in his bedroom my grandma basically left untouched, some with covers some not, lot's of funny books and westerns, Tarzan....  Only child, relatively well off.  Hours of reading entertainment for me on an afternoon weekend visit.  My mom who grew up on a farm stated they could have never afforded the $0.10 cents books, it was quite a luxury.  In fact, a birthday or x-mas card came with a single dime taped inside. I'd say collectors of size in the day were extremely dedicated, and at least of above average means.

Edited May 13, 2021 by path4play

[The Lions Den]

11 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

Yeah, hard to compare the Twilight with its dark background and dark imaging to the Promise with its backlighting and lighter imaging.  That could swing both ways, so makes a comparison difficult.  

Same thing with the w-ow of the Twilight and the w of the Promise.  Without actually seeing interior pages, hard to know how white they really are.

As I'm sure you've seen, OW is usually either dark enough around the edges to warrant the PQ downgrade or it has a more uniform drop in the quality of the entire page. Either way, Off-White PQ is normally significantly less appealing than White... 

[jcjames]

3 hours ago, Badger said:

Interestingly, the labels on CGC's new cases do not contain any fine print other than to visit CGC's website for current terms. Reading the terms, you are referred to the sites Guarantee Page which states: I wonder why CGC guarantees trading cards as not being over-graded but not comic books?

The CGC Guarantee

Subject to the terms, conditions, and limitations specified below, a CGC-certified comic book, magazine, lobby card, concert poster, print/sketch/photograph, or trading card (e.g., Pokémon or Magic: The Gathering card) (each, a “Collectible”) encapsulated in a CGC holder is guaranteed as follows:

Type of Collectible	What is Guaranteed
Comic books, magazines, lobby cards, and concert posters (non-CGC Signature Series) (excluding collectibles encapsulated in the red CGC Memorabilia Label)	The Collectible has been inspected by at least two (2) professionals The Collectible is authentic
CGC Signature Series (any label) comic books, magazines, and concert posters	The Collectible has been inspected by at least two (2) professionals The Collectible is authentic The designated witnessed signature(s) on the Collectible are authentic (Note: In the case of the yellow / green CGC Signatures Series Qualified Label, this Guarantee does not apply to any unwitnessed signatures.)
CGC Signature Series (any label) prints, sketches, and photographs	The Collectible has been inspected by at least two (2) professionals The designated witnessed signature(s) on the Collectible (BUT NOT the Collectible itself) are authentic (Note: In the case of the yellow / green CGC Signature Series Qualified Grade Label, this Guarantee does not apply to any unwitnessed signatures.)
Trading Cards	The Collectible has been inspected by at least two (2) professionals The Collectible is authentic The Collectible has not been overgraded (meaning it is not graded higher than CGC Trading Cards’ Grading Standards) (Exception: Grade is not guaranteed for trading cards encapsulated with CGC Trading Cards’ green Qualified Grade Label.)

[tth2]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Promise copy has a dust shadow left top edge, a bit rough right top edge, and is misaligned/miscut with the Superman circle top cut off and blank paper below the image bottom right:

Burn it

[Buliwyf]

..hmm not mine "Jolly Comics and "Badger" you appear to be in a somewhat biased position in your defense of Jim..no one cares!! just look at the books..

[N e r V]

1 hour ago, The Lions Den said:

You really like those clapping hands don’t you…

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, sfcityduck said:

Promise copy has a dust shadow left top edge, a bit rough right top edge, and is misaligned/miscut with the Superman circle top cut off and blank paper below the image bottom right:

 

Twilight presents very nicely with better centering:

Mile High? (not sure) looks pretty good:

I'm not convinced the Promise Copy is tops, although I am a white pages guy.  I'd love to see the interior of a Promise copy. 

Huh - noting that the Promise copy has Siamese pages as well.

Does that mean it'd be a presumptive 9.8 without that defect?

Either way, I'd rather have the Twilight copy.

[N e r V]

20 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

As I'm sure you've seen, OW is usually either dark enough around the edges to warrant the PQ downgrade or it has a more uniform drop in the quality of the entire page. Either way, Off-White PQ is normally significantly less appealing than White... 

Can you explain the differences now between bone white Snow White and Whitey white?

 

[comicjack]

1 hour ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Since Greggy is all confused again. I will clarify my question/statement.  

Does anyone know if there is a Punch Comics #12 in this collection? 

Other than 1 restored book at 8.5 the current top census is the Crowley 8.0 that sold on Heritage in 2002 for just over $2,530 then again in 2018 for $55,000

No one is talking yet 

[jimbo_7071]

2 hours ago, path4play said:

This one too.

 

 

From what I remember, there was a high-grade (9.4ish?) copy of that issue that wasn't able to be slabbed because of an overhang. (The Crippen copy, maybe?)

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

Can you explain the differences now between bone white Snow White and Whitey white?

 

 Maybe when I'm done laughing...

[The Lions Den]

3 hours ago, Inaflash said:

That’s because they’re all dead.

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, N e r V said:

You really like those clapping hands don’t you…

I like that they're described as a "Golf Clap.."  

[Timely]

4 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Here's an interesting case study.

Detective Comics # 120 (probably my favorite Penguin cover).

The Promise collection issue is tied for highest graded at 9.6 (white pages). 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/miscellaneous/detective-comics-120-the-promise-collection-pedigree-dc-1947-cgc-nm-96-white-pages/p/7244-175054.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

The other 9.6 is the Twilight Pedigree issue, which sold in March 2019 for $8,900. (Off-white pages)

The Church (Mile High Copy) is a mere 9.4 and sold a decade ago (when it was the then highest-graded) in Dec. 2010 for $17,750.

The Twilight copy is currently for sale via Heritage BIN / Make-an-Offer for $17,500 (a bit less than the inferior Mile High copy sold back in 2010). See here: 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/detective-comics-120-highest-graded-twilight-pedigree-dc-1947-cgc-nm-96-off-white-pages/i/800095942.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

So what's the Promise Collection 9.6 copy worth?

What does the presence of now two 9.6s do to the value of the Mile High 9.4?

What's the Mile High copy worth today (pre-Promise Collection sale) now that the Twilight copy sold for 1/2 as much?

I owned the MH copy of Detective Comics #120 for a long time, bought it directly from Gary Carter. It had a VERY white cover, significantly better than the Twilight!!!

[lou_fine]

6 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Promise copy has a dust shadow left top edge, a bit rough right top edge, and is misaligned/miscut with the Superman circle top cut off and blank paper below the image bottom right:

What is this............are you doing a rewrite of the grading definitions for VF/NM here in preparation for Overstreet's new guide?  

And what the frig is going on with that top staple area for the Promise Collection copy or is this simply just nothing more than CCS's signature confirmation mark that additional revenue has already been generated from this book and this defect signature should therefore be taken into consideration accordingly by the graders. 

Bottom-line:  After careful visual consideration and since I am not a label chaser, I would take the Mile High copy since the cover looks pretty white to me and presents nicely as compared to the Promise copy with that misaligned cut along the top which is a definite eyesore, plus you can never go wrong with a Church pedigree since it's the absolute top rung of the pedigree ladder:    

Edited May 13, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

6 hours ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

I am wondering if there is a Punch #12 in there. 

 

6 hours ago, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Since Greggy is all confused again. I will clarify my question/statement.  

Does anyone know if there is a Punch Comics #12 in this collection? 

Other than 1 restored book at 8.5 the current top census is the Crowley 8.0 that sold on Heritage in 2002 for just over $2,530 then again in 2018 for $55,000

 

Well, since no one else has bothered to answer your question here, I will try to fathom a guess and say "Yes", there should most likely be a Punch 12 in there since this would be from the prime 1945/46 time period.  I guess we can only wait and see to find out though.  

My best guess though is that it's pretty likely considering that they already have a copy of Punch 19 in there, with the 2 problem staple areas and that fugly looking spine as per usual:      

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/punch-comics-19-the-promise-collection-pedigree-chesler-1946-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7244-175062.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

With respect to the Punch run, I believe the only ones they might not have in there might be Punch 1 and 2 since it's prior to 1943, and even if they did, might not be in the usual "high grade" condition that the majority of the Promise books would be in.  

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

7 hours ago, buttock said:

The promise copy looks the best to me, the twilight-- while not having a dust shadow-- appears to be a little dirty all over.  Or at least tanned.  Which is effectively a full book shadow.  (lou_fine is already concocting a series of conspiracies to explain how that got a 9.6).  It could just be the imaging, but the promise copy appears fresher.  

Not as much as that copy of Punch Comics 19 from my previous post just up above, that's for sure.  

Something for you to comtemplate while you lay awake at night thinking about the meaning of life..................."One book's defects are another book's pedigree characteristic traits".    

Another food for thought just for you..............if you are thinking of opting for a Heritage scanned book because of the brightness and freshness of the cover, I most certainly hope that you have a light table at home to view your books, similar to the one that HA has.        

Edited May 13, 2021 by lou_fine

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

 

Well, since no one else has bothered to answer your question here, I will try to fathom a guess and say "Yes", there should most likely be a Punch 12 in there since this would be from the prime 1945/46 time period.  I guess we can only wait and see to find out though.  

My best guess though is that it's pretty likely considering that they already have a copy of Punch 19 in there, with the 2 problem staple areas and that fugly looking spine as per usual:      

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/punch-comics-19-the-promise-collection-pedigree-chesler-1946-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/p/7244-175062.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

With respect to the Punch run, I believe the only ones they might not have in there might be Punch 1 and 2 since it's prior to 1943, and even if they did, might not be in the usual "high grade" condition that the majority of the Promise books would be in.  

 

I appreciate the reply. I did see the Punch 19 and that is what lead me to ask of there was a 12. 

I will be waiting and watching like so many of us to see what books spring from this collection.  

[Crowzilla]

6 hours ago, tth2 said:

Burn it

Like I first said many pages back - this collection stinks.