They're Still Out There! 22 22

[PopKulture]

8 minutes ago, cheetah said:

Heck, I’m not even collecting at the moment and I’ve had plenty of oohs and aahs over these books. 

The books themselves are great! I'd buy a nice hardcover book picturing them a la the Gerber Photo-Journals like someone mentioned earlier in the thread.

I would, of course, prefer they were captured in their glorious, unmolested raw state were such a book ever to be offered.  

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

Money was tight during those times for the majority of folks.  Of course, there are always exceptions.

 

Are you talking about then or now with the current pandemic still in place and record high unemployment with many businesses still shut down?  

And yet we have stock markets at record highs, housing prices going through the roof, and people throwing millions at NFT's, sports cards, and not too far behind are our much loved and treasured comic books.  

[batman_fan]

The actual definition of a true collector is: "someone that spreads their comics on the floor and then rolls on them naked with no concern for damaging the books". That is an exact quote from Wikipedia so you know it has to be true.

As far as the promise collection, it is spectacular and an amazing group of books.  I hope I can snag a few and I am really looking forward to the Batman's when they show up.  Are some over grades?  Sure but you can say the same for tons of books.

[PopKulture]

20 minutes ago, Mmehdy said:

I am against any form of alteration of the original comic book, especially pressing. I agree 100% it can cause damage both to the book and the overall  GA/SA comic book market. I think your observation is one of the best future thinking ahead posts placed  this form in a long time.  Your question is will all future mega collections follow the same pattern from here on out with these incredible results, and  with the 3 mega giant auction houses and have every book that is consigned to them go thru this pressing press for GA comic books. It is dangerous and it is for the long term of the hobby something that is gonna catch up with US you and me as Ga/SA comic book collectors. I think the gravity of the greed or the power of making more money is a tough thing to stop. The only think you and I can do, is say no to our collections, to collectors who seek out our advice.

At some point in every thread about the Church Action 1 or the Allentown Detective 27 or the like, someone bemoans that those books are locked up in Dave's collection. Upon reading such remarks, I always feel a little guilty for having the exact opposite reaction - "Good. I'm glad those books are locked up and safe," I think to myself. Otherwise, they'd go under the press multiple times like the Windy City Marvel Comics 1 or the recent Batman 1. Heck, if anything, I'd rather see a VG-ish Captain Easy with some unsightly cover waviness hit the press rather than NM copies of All Select that already look like they popped out of a time machine. 

I joke about being buried with my comics, but really I'm just a steward of those books, be they an Action 1 or Stumbo the Giant in Tinytown. At least then let me be a mindful steward.  

[buttock]

25 minutes ago, PopKulture said:

Okay, I'll try my best to be happy if you concede there's nothing altruistic going on here.  

Good fortune, you say? Are these books being handed out at a children's hospital or something? No, the same old big money machine is revving up and many thousands of dollars will be flying around wildly, and 99.9% of the people who enjoy comics will never hold one of these books in their hands much less own one, and then on the back end there will be even more excitement and money flying around when the powers-that-be offer micro-trimming or some such "service" and the cycle starts anew...

It's not sour grapes: I'm really, really content as a hobbyist with my crappy old Four Colors at ten bucks apiece. It's not at all about the have's and the have-not's. I don't hate Elon whether he's worth a million or two hundred billion on a given day. More than anything, I just hate the entrenched malpractice we're seeing perpetrated here. 

I'm not assuming there's anything altruistic.  I'm well aware that Heritage isn't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, but I wouldn't expect them to do that either.  But there's good fortune on behalf of the family, who will get a truly life-altering amount of money from this.  And there's good fortune on behalf of collectors, many of who will get to fill holes in their collections.  One thing there that really stands out to me is the fact that Timely collectors -- of which I'm not one -- haven't had access to the Church copies of these books (heretofore presumed to be the best) for 30+ years.  Now all of a sudden there's a huge collection of them in 9.6-9.8... awesome!  A lot of my friends are going to be really excited to get these books and many others.  How great for them!  I'm in this hobby for the friendships as much as the books, how could I not get joy from watching my friends get something they're really excited about? 

Now the pressing/certification nonsense... I've clearly gone on record with my thoughts on that.  It is what it is, I wish it wasn't, but it is.  So I have the choice to let it affect me or not, and I choose the latter.  I genuinely hope you are happy.  But if something this petty gets under your skin, that's a barrier.  

[Mr. Lady Luck]

If you're having trouble getting excited about the Promise collection, try thinking about all the amazing "under-copies" that will hit the market soon.

And those copies will lead to other under-copies, and so on... trickle-down comics...

Edited May 11, 2021 by Mr. Lady Luck

[lou_fine]

On 5/9/2021 at 10:42 AM, Mmehdy said:

The last GA book I bought raw I was burned by at least 2 full grade points and reminded me how great CGC truly is on that level.

Hey Mitch;

Looks like you made out like a rabbit here and nothing compared to the boardie who PM'ed me last night after one of my posts to show me scans of a CGC graded book that he had resubbed (sadly without performing his due diligence of CPR) for a potential upgrade and ended up being burned by a 3 full CGC condition grading levels instead.      

Really felt sorry for the boardie as it was also most likely a case of real bad timing as the book was regraded not quite 3 weeks ago and right during the midst of all of these Promise Collection books going through at the same time.  The real sad thing is that from the scan, although the book might have been off by one grade point if graded tightly, it certainly presented better than some of the scans of books that we have seen posted here earlier in this thread and that by some grading miracle are now somehow the highest graded copies on the CGC Census Population Report.  

This is why I find that although CGC and certified grading has most definitely been a net benefit to the collecting base, grading at times is also a matter of luck and timing because as seen in the past, if CGC is hell bent on grading to fit a certain business agenda of the day, you best hope that your book is not hitting their grading table during that time period.    

A perfect reminder to all of us here how NOT so great CGC truly is on that level.    

[N e r V]

25 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

The actual definition of a true collector is: "someone that spreads their comics on the floor and then rolls on them naked with no concern for damaging the books". That is an exact quote from Wikipedia so you know it has to be true.

As far as the promise collection, it is spectacular and an amazing group of books.  I hope I can snag a few and I am really looking forward to the Batman's when they show up.  Are some over grades?  Sure but you can say the same for tons of books.

Pretty sure those who press books on the boards here aren’t happy about you revealing their trade secrets with pressing books…

 

[Flex Mentallo]

33 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

The actual definition of a true collector is: "someone that spreads their comics on the floor and then rolls on them naked with no concern for damaging the books". That is an exact quote from Wikipedia so you know it has to be true.

 

Darn, forgot to take off my socks.

[Flex Mentallo]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Lady Luck said:

If you're having trouble getting excited about the Promise collection, try thinking about all the amazing "under-copies" that will hit the market soon.

And those copies will lead to other under-copies, and so on... trickle-down comics...

I can always use a good trickle.

[lou_fine]

4 hours ago, PopKulture said:

4 hours ago, vheflin said:

Are you implying this is likely due to pressing and therefore avoidable? 

 

3 hours ago, vheflin said:

I am, indeed.

Are you also implying that the book might still also be overgraded in the end, given all of the issues along the edges and corners of the book?  

If so, please take into account that spines, corners, and edges are above the pay grade of the CGC graders for this Promise Collection here, as the "suits" in the corner suite of the penthouse are responsible for those unimportant parts of the book.    

Edited May 11, 2021 by lou_fine

[buttock]

51 minutes ago, PopKulture said:

At some point in every thread about the Church Action 1 or the Allentown Detective 27 or the like, someone bemoans that those books are locked up in Dave's collection. Upon reading such remarks, I always feel a little guilty for having the exact opposite reaction - "Good. I'm glad those books are locked up and safe," I think to myself. Otherwise, they'd go under the press multiple times like the Windy City Marvel Comics 1 or the recent Batman 1. Heck, if anything, I'd rather see a VG-ish Captain Easy with some unsightly cover waviness hit the press rather than NM copies of All Select that already look like they popped out of a time machine. 

I joke about being buried with my comics, but really I'm just a steward of those books, be they an Action 1 or Stumbo the Giant in Tinytown. At least then let me be a mindful steward.  

Do yourself a favor and don't ever ask anyone about Dave's history of manipulating books 

[Scrooge]

1 hour ago, PopKulture said:

with my crappy old Four Colors at ten bucks apiece

 Big spender!

[MrBedrock]

7 minutes ago, buttock said:

1 hour ago, PopKulture said:

At some point in every thread about the Church Action 1 or the Allentown Detective 27 or the like, someone bemoans that those books are locked up in Dave's collection. Upon reading such remarks, I always feel a little guilty for having the exact opposite reaction - "Good. I'm glad those books are locked up and safe," I think to myself. Otherwise, they'd go under the press multiple times like the Windy City Marvel Comics 1 or the recent Batman 1. Heck, if anything, I'd rather see a VG-ish Captain Easy with some unsightly cover waviness hit the press rather than NM copies of All Select that already look like they popped out of a time machine. 

I joke about being buried with my comics, but really I'm just a steward of those books, be they an Action 1 or Stumbo the Giant in Tinytown. At least then let me be a mindful steward.  

Do yourself a favor and don't ever ask anyone about Dave's history of manipulating books 

Somewhere there are Hawkeyes with fake Church codes laughing hysterically.

[buttock]

15 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Somewhere there are Hawkeyes with fake Church codes laughing hysterically.

I suppose the Church AC 1 went through Snyder also, so it may have some glue or CT.  I say that as pure conjecture, but it wouldn't surprise me.  These shenanigans are nothing new.  

[PopKulture]

25 minutes ago, buttock said:

Do yourself a favor and don't ever ask anyone about Dave's history of manipulating books 

I'm not saying that they couldn't be in better hands; moreover, that they are safer not changing hands. I don't hold him on a pedestal by any means. 

[lou_fine]

16 hours ago, lou_fine said:

On 5/8/2021 at 7:59 AM, sfcityduck said:

Comparing those two books, I'm beginning to think this is a marketing promotion by CGC to encourage everyone to resubmit their books to take advantage of the new grading standards being established by this collection.

From my own personal point of view, I think if I have a HG copy of a GA book from this later time period, this would probably be the absolute worst time to be sending it in for grading. 

I believe this lowered grading standard that you are seemingly seeing is probably part of an undisclosed business agenda that is limited solely to the Promise Collection.  As a result, if you submit your HG GA book into CGC for grading right now, they will probably be taking you and your book behind the woodshed and applying some heavy punishment grading to it. 

Although it might not be necessary by now, but I will repeat my advice or word of warning to you here anyways.    

Based upon what was sent to me last night, it is never a good idea to try to jump on board the CGC grading train when it is already loaded up to the hilt with the Promise Collection books and also barreling down the tracks at full maximum speed.  The chances of you and your HG GA books from this same time period being able to successfully maneuver this leap is probably slim to none and you and your books will sadly simply get crushed to smithereens under the wheels of the oncoming CGC grading train.    

[Flex Mentallo]

30 minutes ago, MrBedrock said:

Somewhere there are Hawkeyes with fake Church codes laughing hysterically.

A sentence that could not possibly be understood by anyone outside the hobby!

[lou_fine]

22 hours ago, buttock said:

These shenanigans are nothing new. 

Is this really nothing more than a case of the kettle calling the pot black, except the pot in this case is much much bigger and blacker?  

These current shenanigans are nothing new in the sense that back in those days, those types of activities were seen as ADDING VALUE to a book as even clearly stated in the Overstreet guide at the time, and not so much as destroying the value of a book.  

Yet decades later, knowing full well has has taken place in the past and that we should all know better by now, shenanigans and manipulations not only continue to this point in time, but are instead encouraged and institutionalized to the point that you and your book are actually severely penalized in terms of having your book graded if you choose not to partake in these manipulative games of theirs.    

Edited May 12, 2021 by lou_fine

[jcjames]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

No idea why you would be asking me since I am a collector who prefers to keep all of my books raw and don't participate in this whole grading fiasco and CPR game that's taking place.  

Better to ask the parties that's actually involved such as the gang over at Heritage, the boys over at CGC and CCS, and possibly the consignors although I suspect they (sad to say) just might not know what's being done to Junie's much loved and treasured books that he had asked his brother and family to take care of and which they very obviously and lovingly did for the past 75 years.  

"Third-party grading".... with in-house pressing to increase the value of the item (which of course they have no monetary interest in).