They're Still Out There! 22 22

[tth2]

19 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

At the risk of bringing everything in the world to a stop, have we all been staring at the Promise books so much that no one has mentioned the gem of gems is appearing in this auction? Might need it's own 50+ page thread or risk breaking the internet.

I was hoping everyone would overlook it amidst all the hubbub over the Promise books!

Thanks Sean! 

Edited May 12, 2021 by tth2

[adamstrange]

1 minute ago, tth2 said:

I was hoping everyone would overlook it amidst all the hubbub over the Promise books!

Thanks Sean! 

There's always...

[tth2]

2 minutes ago, adamstrange said:

There's always...

I thought it was an unwritten rule in the hobby that you always have first dibs on this book!

[jimbo_7071]

Putting Mickey Rooney picture on comic subtitled "Short Story Comics" is blatant discrimination against vertically challenged people. That wouldn't fly today.

3 hours ago, Crowzilla said:

At the risk of bringing everything in the world to a stop, have we all been staring at the Promise books so much that no one has mentioned the gem of gems is appearing in this auction? Might need it's own 50+ page thread or risk breaking the internet.

 

[jimbo_7071]

6 hours ago, szav said:

[A]s close as we are now and as little info is out and as vague as the info has been, I'm currently more inclined to think this is the story of a dealer/collector who got a hold of these books some years or decades ago, and that the family of the OO is long since removed from what's going on right now.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I'm not sure how long they've been out of the picture, though. It could be a case where they recently shopped the collection to an LCS owner who said, "These are wonderful books, so I'm going to offer you top dollar for them—$50,000 for the whole collection," and the elderly brother accepted the offer, thinking it generous.

Edited May 12, 2021 by jimbo_7071

[Flex Mentallo]

1 hour ago, jimbo_7071 said:

That wouldn't fly today.

You mean it would be vertically challenged?

[tabcom]

I wondered what would happen if I ran this comic without a label through the graders at:

Hey buddy can you spare a grade . . .

 

[buttock]

12 minutes ago, tabcom said:

I wondered what would happen if I ran this comic without a label through the graders at:

Hey buddy can you spare a grade . . .

 

[sagii]

Easily Thread of the Year! 

[N e r V]

12 hours ago, szav said:

Call me a wildly speculating uninformed cynic but I'm starting to wonder too. I guess there's still three weeks left till the first auction so who know's what sort of marketing HA still has in store, and maybe the family is somehow involved and really does just want some privacy.

But anyone who knows anything about GA comics knows there can be massive value in a compelling pedigree story.  Just look at the random camp era Okajima's in mid grade that go for literally 10 times what equivalently graded non pedigree books go for, or Church books which go for double what equivalently graded non pedigree books even in super high grade go for, or 4 to 5 times value for lower grade junk books.

If this collection belonged to my family, or a relative, and there was some amazing story like the older brother holding on to these for 70 years until his death despite knowing their value, I'd take a loan against some of the expected winnings and produce a documentary about it, try to get some articles published etc and drum up the hype prior to the first auction.  

Now I know HA are the experts and maybe they've gotten a read from enough mega-whale collectors that there's no need to do this, but as close as we are now and as little info is out and as vague as the info has been, I'm currently more inclined to think this is the story of a dealer/collector who got a hold of these books some years or decades ago, and that the family of the OO is long since removed from what's going on right now.

I agree. I’m currently in talks with Frank Miller, Neil Gaiman, Grant Morrison, and Alan Moore to write about my pedigree collections back story. Not sure yet if it will be a story about the struggle to survive or a dark tragic tale of revenge where good triumphs over evil. Maybe a action packed heist story with lots of car chases and explosions with the final payoff as my books are unloaded at the CGC entry way?

I’m also going to need a name now that promise is taken. CGC has let me know the following pedigree titles are still available. Word, word of honor, assurance, pledge, vow, guarantee, oath, bond, swear, commitment and covenant.

If I use Bond as a pedigree it cost a bit more because it comes with a licensing agreement to use the James Bond image on the label. Covenant is only slightly more though with your choice of 7 (currently) religious images on the label. Using just Word as a pedigree you can pick your favorite rapper and CGC will work on your behalf to secure image rights for the label.

Not going to waste my time on websites though that nobody reads with single digit comments. No I’m going to have the event streamed live from Heritage. I’ve already contacted them to insist Rick is my on the spot reporter for the event as the books are auctioned off. It’s about time he gets discovered so he can leave that gawd awful office in Texas and they can move him into their sunny Hollywood suites.

Finally I’ve requested not my own thread but an entirely new section of the CGC boards here. It’ll be on top of coarse in front of the Golden Age section. I don’t want anyone getting distracted by those other threads.

I just need to know how much Moondog gets for starting threads these days…

[N e r V]

4 minutes ago, szav said:

Woah woah woahhh...I said documentary and a few human interest articles to add some publicity, not 'action packed blockbuster.' 

When 25 million plus is on the line, I don't think a 10-15 minute youtube video telling the story of the once in a a lifetime collection and the people behind it is too much to ask, if the story is actually that compelling. 

They could title the documentary... "The Value of a Promise - the soandso story".  I guarantee at least 100 views and 10 likes.

Sorry. Go big or go home is what I say…

[Badger]

22 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Hey Mitch;

Looks like you made out like a rabbit here and nothing compared to the boardie who PM'ed me last night after one of my posts to show me scans of a CGC graded book that he had resubbed (sadly without performing his due diligence of CPR) for a potential upgrade and ended up being burned by a 3 full CGC condition grading levels instead.      

Really felt sorry for the boardie as it was also most likely a case of real bad timing as the book was regraded not quite 3 weeks ago and right during the midst of all of these Promise Collection books going through at the same time.  The real sad thing is that from the scan, although the book might have been off by one grade point if graded tightly, it certainly presented better than some of the scans of books that we have seen posted here earlier in this thread and that by some grading miracle are now somehow the highest graded copies on the CGC Census Population Report.  

This is why I find that although CGC and certified grading has most definitely been a net benefit to the collecting base, grading at times is also a matter of luck and timing because as seen in the past, if CGC is hell bent on grading to fit a certain business agenda of the day, you best hope that your book is not hitting their grading table during that time period.    

A perfect reminder to all of us here how NOT so great CGC truly is on that level.    

Just curious, but when you say things like this do you envision Jim Halperin walking the halls of CGC and saying, "That's a mighty fine book you're grading there. Be a shame if it were to be less than, oh say, a 9.8." How, exactly, do you think CGC lets the graders know that they should be lenient on a certain number of books? Is the grading carde marked? Does an email go out? Team meeting? Do you envision a tell-all book detailing all of the shady practices?

[JollyComics]

On 4/19/2021 at 1:02 PM, MrBedrock said:

.

Did your cat get your tongue?

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by JollyComics

[Flex Mentallo]

16 minutes ago, Badger said:

Just curious, but when you say things like this do you envision Jim Halperin walking the halls of CGC and saying, "That's a mighty fine book you're grading there. Be a shame if it were to be less than, oh say, a 9.8." How, exactly, do you think CGC lets the graders know that they should be lenient on a certain number of books? Is the grading carde marked? Does an email go out? Team meeting? Do you envision a tell-all book detailing all of the shady practices?

Once boundaries blur it becomes more difficult to demonstrate objectivity.

[ThothAmon]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Just curious, but when you say things like this do you envision Jim Halperin walking the halls of CGC and saying, "That's a mighty fine book you're grading there. Be a shame if it were to be less than, oh say, a 9.8." How, exactly, do you think CGC lets the graders know that they should be lenient on a certain number of books? Is the grading carde marked? Does an email go out? Team meeting? Do you envision a tell-all book detailing all of the shady practices?

Do you really believe that the books in this collection are being submitted like us plebes submit ours?  I’m doubtful. It would be interesting to learn how the sausage is made but that’s probably not going to happen.  Anyways, I’m super excited about the collection and feel that the biggest risk for HA sales has nothing to do with the grading and everything to do with the stock market finding it’s footing. 

[Badger]

2 minutes ago, ThothAmon said:

Do you really believe that the books in this collection are being submitted like us plebes submit ours?  I’m doubtful. It would be interesting to learn how the sausage is made but that’s probably not going to happen.  Anyways, I’m super excited about the collection and feel that the biggest risk for HA sales has nothing to do with the grading and everything to do with the stock market finding it’s footing. 

I think its impossible to control rumors even inside CGC. So, a grader is looking at a few hundred high(est) grade comics and I'm sure there is awareness of what it is and where it came from. That is very different from being instructed to grade lightly. One is a natural outcome of an office environment and the other is felony fraud and racketeering. People are conflating actual criminal activity with grading fatigue and enthusiasm. It would be tough for anyone who loves comics to grade a high number of these comics in a row and not have their grades slip here and there. It would also be impossible to not have the memory of these books in your mind when some poor slob's submission come through next and gets hammered on the grade.

The stock market is due for a correction and the inflation rate, reported tomorrow, may cause it to come to fruition. Still, there is literally an extra trillion dollars in our economy right now and that money has to go somewhere. 

[october]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Just curious, but when you say things like this do you envision Jim Halperin walking the halls of CGC and saying, "That's a mighty fine book you're grading there. Be a shame if it were to be less than, oh say, a 9.8." How, exactly, do you think CGC lets the graders know that they should be lenient on a certain number of books? Is the grading carde marked? Does an email go out? Team meeting? Do you envision a tell-all book detailing all of the shady practices?

It's not just about avoiding impropriety, it's about avoiding the appearance of impropriety (or conflict of interest) that's important, especially when a company holds themselves out as a totally objective 3rd party. An auctioneer that makes more money when books recieve higher grades opens themselves up to all sorts of theories and rumors when taking a large stake in that same grading company. There could be absolutely nothing improper going on, but it's not a good look. 

[Badger]

9 minutes ago, october said:

It's not just about avoiding impropriety, it's about avoiding the appearance of impropriety (or conflict of interest) that's important, especially when a company holds themselves out as a totally objective 3rd party. An auctioneer that makes more money when books recieve higher grades opens themselves up to all sorts of theories and rumors when taking a large stake in that same grading company. There could be absolutely nothing improper going on, but it's not a good look. 

Yes, absolutely correct it is a horrible look. However, it appears to be a look that is only surface deep. In 21 years of operation there has never been a single ex-employee who has asserted any such bias in CGC's operations. That speaks volumes.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Badger
way to confrontational sorry

[jimjum12]

3 minutes ago, szav said:

Good points, I can see both sides of the debate.  I do wonder, though I’ll admit to not having researched it thoroughly, is CGC subject to any regulatory authority or do they have any accreditation or inspection of their business practices?  Likewise interested to know the same for the big auction houses.  It could go along way towards alleviating some of the suspicions.

People are going to look at the scan and bid accordingly ... People with that type of juice are usually astute. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo (a friend of Jesus)

[Badger]

6 minutes ago, szav said:

Yep the answer to my questions are likely no right now, but the bigger the money gets the more there might be a need for it.  Until they have real competition anyway, theres really no incentive  for them to do things like, publish grading standards, be open about business practices, avoid appearance of conflict of interest, etc.  Caveat emptor, etc.

This is something else that has confused me: CGC has published their grading standards. CGC has publicly stated that they follow Overstreet standards AND assisted in Overstreet publishing a Grading book or 4. Overstreet has publicly stated that their standards have changed from what they were before CGC to now. If you are grading comics using Overstreet grading from the 1990s you are going to have bad submissions. You are also going to have head scratching submissions as books come  back much higher graded than you thought they would be. 

Overstreet Grading Guide 2021

One reason I rarely get surprised on CGC submissions is that I use these guides. They work.