A Discussion About How CGC Label Non-US Publications Which Reprint / Reproduce Original US Comic Content 10 10

[gadzukes]

On 4/23/2022 at 6:07 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

We're on the same page Gad. 

YES!!! Do I win a NO PRIZE now?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:10 PM, gadzukes said:

YES!!! Do I win a NO PRIZE now?

Yes.

3 year TAT though.

[gadzukes]

On 4/23/2022 at 5:56 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

You've read their announcement. What do you think they'll do?

 

Foreign Editions

This classification is assigned to international comics that feature a cover to which a US counterpart exists but is not a facsimile.......

.....CGC classifies and labels foreign editions by the title and issue number of their US counterpart, but also lists the foreign title and issue on the label as well. The country of origin is listed as the edition, such as “Norwegian edition”. The contents of each foreign edition are researched, with pertinent stories, appearances, or artists listed in the art and key comments on the label

So "Reggie 1" it is!  

Archie's Rival REGGIE #1                                                                                                                                                      (Archie's Rival REGGIE 4 - Australia)

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:14 PM, gadzukes said:

So "Reggie 1" it is!  

Archie's Rival REGGIE #1                                                                                                                                                      (Archie's Rival REGGIE 4 - Australia)

That won't confuse anyone, will it. 

[Get Marwood & I]

"Origin and 1st appearance of an obtuse labelling strategy"

[gadzukes]

This Aus. "REGGIE 7" will really be confusing.

It's the cover to US "Betty & Veronica 2".

[gadzukes]

I'm still going to say, the new system will be getting tweaked thru this next year.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/23/2022 at 5:10 PM, gadzukes said:

YES!!! Do I win a NO PRIZE now?

Um err

I love your sig line, but kind of large

I only mention because you changed it recently and thought you might see it idk

It goes on for half a page longer, but do you

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:21 PM, gadzukes said:

I'm still going to say, the new system will be getting tweaked thru this next year.

Only four tweaks needed, really:

1. Make the actual comic title primary in all cases, and the reproduced US cover title secondary as a label note (census record should always be literal too, with a searchable function for books that share the same cover)
2. Where reprinted, first appearance notations to always include the relevant non-US appearance country (e.g. "1st appearance of the Hulk in Italy") so as to preserve the integrity of the original book
3. Reprint status to always be noted (e.g. "Reprints original material from The Amazing Spider-Man #1 (Marvel Comics 1963)")
4. The word 'Edition' to be banished (because it isn't required, and can be misleading)

 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Get Marwood & I
Tweaked the tweaks

[gadzukes]

On 4/23/2022 at 6:27 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Um err

I love your sig line, but kind of large

I only mention because you changed it recently and thought you might see it idk

It goes on for half a page longer, but do you

 

Sorry about that.  Now removed.  Definitely annoying.  I thought the new pics would line up next to the other one, not below.

Ironically, I have my settings set so that I don't see anyone's sig lines, because I was getting annoyed at that same thing.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/23/2022 at 5:40 PM, gadzukes said:

Sorry about that.  Now removed.  Definitely annoying.  I thought the new pics would line up next to the other one, not below.

Ironically, I have my settings set so that I don't see anyone's sig lines, because I was getting annoyed at that same thing.

Much better and no worries, actually you can chose siglines to ignore and not see. If you decide to turn them on, there is a "x" over visible siglines, and when you come across one like that click the x and ignore that specific.

Sorry about that though, you and Marwood were mid conversation, I didnt mean to gum up the works.

You can also resize your pics in the sigline, after uploading then double click on the image to resize.  No worries 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:28 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Only four tweaks needed, really:

1. Make the actual comic title primary in all cases, and the reproduced US cover title secondary as a label note (census record should always be literal too, with a searchable function for books that share the same cover)
2. Where reprinted, first appearance notations to always include the relevant non-US appearance country (e.g. "1st appearance of the Hulk in Italy") so as to preserve the integrity of the original book
3. Reprint status to always be noted (e.g. "Reprints original material from The Amazing Spider-Man #1 (Marvel Comics 1963)")
4. The word 'Edition' to be banished (because it isn't required, and can be misleading)

 

I just tweaked my tweaks, and plan to leave it at that now in this thread. It's possible to overplay your hand on these things and I don't enjoy 'conflict' when it comes to comics. If there is no possibility of design influencing discussion with CGC, as seems to be the case, then it can become tedious and counterproductive to just go over the same points again and again. It only went on so long (this thread) because the announcement took over a year to arrive, with many promised dates missed, so I kept going with examples and commentary to keep it on the radar. Now the design intentions are finally in the public arena however, with basic principles that are unlikely to change, people can make up their own minds on the merits of the strategy and whether to submit their books as a result.

It would be nice to know whether a submitter can request literal labelling, and override CGC's default design approach, but maybe someone else can take that investigative challenge up - someone, perhaps, who actually submits non-US publications to CGC (nobody likes an armchair critic, it seems!).  

Although I disagree with the core design approach, I do want to pay tribute to the effort that CGC have put in here. Tackling overseas books is a mammoth undertaking, fraught with difficulties and hampered by a lack of knowledge and historic reference points. They deserve huge credit for the work they have done and for having a go at it. Some people will have worked really hard on this and I don't doubt their intentions and passion for the hobby for one moment. We may disagree on the approach, but credit where credit is due. It's a significant effort and the work and intentions deserve recognition.

I absolutely love comics, of all types, hence the stand I've taken here with the support and contributions of many like minded, experienced collectors. It was worth having, I think, even though there was no direct input from CGC and I probably ended up personally alienating some people in the process. Passion can often be confused with arrogance, and I did get a little flustered at the back end of last year, and acted like an overblown tart in a fit of self righteous indignation. 

Given my background here, I'll still do my best to put my arguments forward if I see anyone confusing US produced, first printing price variants with non-US published books with reproduced US content. I will continue to bang the drum for the UK, Australian and Canadian Price Variants, and how they fit into the picture if anyone asks.

Thanks to all who joined in - it was a good, honest debate about comics. By all means carry on without me, but I've said my piece now. Someone else can hog the limelight for a change. 

As always, have fun! 

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 4/24/2022 at 5:41 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I just tweaked my tweaks, and plan to leave it at that now in this thread. It's possible to overplay your hand on these things and I don't enjoy 'conflict' when it comes to comics. If there is no possibility of design influencing discussion with CGC, as seems to be the case, then it can become tedious and counterproductive to just go over the same points again and again. It only went on so long (this thread) because the announcement took over a year to arrive, with many promised dates missed, so I kept going with examples and commentary to keep it on the radar. Now the design intentions are finally in the public arena however, with basic principles that are unlikely to change, people can make up their own minds on the merits of the strategy and whether to submit their books as a result.

It would be nice to know whether a submitter can request literal labelling, and override CGC's default design approach, but maybe someone else can take that investigative challenge up - someone, perhaps, who actually submits non-US publications to CGC (nobody likes an armchair critic, it seems!).  

Although I disagree with the core design approach, I do want to pay tribute to the effort that CGC have put in here. Tackling overseas books is a mammoth undertaking, fraught with difficulties and hampered by a lack of knowledge and historic reference points. They deserve huge credit for the work they have done and for having a go at it. Some people will have worked really hard on this and I don't doubt their intentions and passion for the hobby for one moment. We may disagree on the approach, but credit where credit is due. It's a significant effort and the work and intentions deserve recognition.

I absolutely love comics, of all types, hence the stand I've taken here with the support and contributions of many like minded, experienced collectors. It was worth having, I think, even though there was no direct input from CGC and I probably ended up personally alienating some people in the process. Passion can often be confused with arrogance, and I did get a little flustered at the back end of last year, and acted like an overblown tart in a fit of self righteous indignation. 

Given my background here, I'll still do my best to put my arguments forward if I see anyone confusing US produced, first printing price variants with non-US published books with reproduced US content. I will continue to bang the drum for the UK, Australian and Canadian Price Variants, and how they fit into the picture if anyone asks.

Thanks to all who joined in - it was a good, honest debate about comics. By all means carry on without me, but I've said my piece now. Someone else can hog the limelight for a change. 

As always, have fun! 

 

I have been reading this thread as it was posted and I too waited to see what their decision was in regards to foreign books.  

I have to say , like you , I am disappointed in their choice.  

To be honest I really wish they would have directly contacted you to help work on this project as I have really enjoyed and agreed with your choices in classification and terminology for these books. 

I really feel that they missed an opportunity to not only reconnect with some of their customers, but to take advantage of collaborative efforts with many of this hobbies true collectors who know so much on the subject and spent years building this knowledge.  

I will say thank you for your amazing contributions to this forum they have been an absolute delight to read. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/24/2022 at 2:20 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

I have been reading this thread as it was posted and I too waited to see what their decision was in regards to foreign books.  

I have to say , like you , I am disappointed in their choice.  

To be honest I really wish they would have directly contacted you to help work on this project as I have really enjoyed and agreed with your choices in classification and terminology for these books. 

I really feel that they missed an opportunity to not only reconnect with some of their customers, but to take advantage of collaborative efforts with many of this hobbies true collectors who know so much on the subject and spent years building this knowledge.  

I will say thank you for your amazing contributions to this forum they have been an absolute delight to read. 

That's very kind of you to say Krypto, thank you. And not a gif or meme in sight I see! There, you can do it 

I may have banged on the most here, and kept it all bubbling along (nothing new there, there are pence books involved!) but many excellent contributions and valid observations have been made by others in the lifetime of the thread. There's a fairly clear for and against divide across the collecting community I think, here and elsewhere, in respect of the key CGC strategy points. Whichever camp you're in though, I think the love for the books shines through. Let's not forget - whatever they are encased in, however they are labelled, whatever they are recorded as, the books are the stars. If the spotlight CGC are shining on them brings new collectors into the fold, that's great as it keeps them and the hobby alive and opens new avenues for those who perhaps may have exhausted home grown US fayre. Those new, potentially less experienced collectors may just have to work a little harder than they otherwise would have needed to, had CGC adopted respectful, literal record keeping!

Now, I'm out! (but really, thank you)

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 4/24/2022 at 9:43 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

That's very kind of you to say Krypto, thank you. And not a gif or meme in sight I see! There, you can do it 

I may have banged on the most here, and kept it all bubbling along (nothing new there, there are pence books involved!) but many excellent contributions and valid observations have been made by others in the lifetime of the thread. There's a fairly clear for and against divide across the collecting community I think, here and elsewhere, in respect of the key CGC strategy points. Whichever camp you're in though, I think the love for the books shines through. Let's not forget - whatever they are encased in, however they are labelled, whatever they are recorded as, the books are the stars. If the spotlight CGC are shining on them brings new collectors into the fold, that's great as it keeps them and the hobby alive and opens new avenues for those who perhaps may have exhausted home grown US fayre. Those new, potentially less experienced collectors may just have to work a little harder than they otherwise would have needed to, had CGC adopted respectful, literal record keeping!

Now, I'm out! (but really, thank you)

I am not always just Gifs or Memes.  Although that does seem to be my most visible and the vast majority of my posts to most threads. 

That said some threads definitely deserve the respect and responses of the same caliber of thought that went into crafting and curating them. 

I definitely agree that there have been many valuable conversations and contributions in this thread from varying opinions.  It is great when they can come together and discuss these ideas in productive ways. 

You are welcome.  I appreciate you sharing your experience, knowledge, and passion for the hobby. Thank you again.

[Redshade]

On 4/23/2022 at 10:40 PM, gadzukes said:

Um.... Should there be a "C" option where the comic is actually called by it's real name "Homem-Aranha"?

Ha ha! Precious. Good catch Gadzukes. Another blow to CGC's competence.

[themagicrobot]

From day one my main objection to labeling a foreign/international black and white reprint comic as a if it were a "key" Marvel comic is the potential for people to be ripped off. This isn't worth even a fraction  of £9495 and anyone mad enough to buy it as an investment will come badly unstuck. 

[marmat]

There is an article about foreign editions in the CGC main age right now

[marmat]

https://www.cgccomics.com/international-comics/

[Lazyboy]

On 4/24/2022 at 1:09 PM, themagicrobot said:

From day one my main objection to labeling a foreign/international black and white reprint comic as a if it were a "key" Marvel comic is the potential for people to be ripped off. This isn't worth even a fraction  of £9495 and anyone mad enough to buy it as an investment will come badly unstuck. 

Is £9.49 not a fraction of £9495? I'm pretty sure it is.