A Discussion About How CGC Label Non-US Publications Which Reprint / Reproduce Original US Comic Content 10 10

[Lazyboy]

On 4/24/2022 at 2:25 PM, marmat said:

There is an article about foreign editions in the CGC main age right now

Yeah, that's why this thread got bumped (again) on Thursday, with that link.

[themagicrobot]

On 4/24/2022 at 8:50 PM, Lazyboy said:

Is £9.49 not a fraction of £9495? I'm pretty sure it is.

I'm not sure what you're implying here? I'm well aware of CAVEAT EMPTOR and anyone is free to pay whatever bonkers price they want to for a tatty old comic. But the CGC is complicit here giving the seller the opportunity to attempt to fleece someone for nigh on £10,000 when until recently I was buying copies of Mystic for a maximum of £5 each and wouldn't have dreamed of getting one slabbed even if it did feature the FF or the Avengers etc on the cover.

Edited April 25, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Lazyboy]

On 4/25/2022 at 2:44 AM, themagicrobot said:

I'm not sure what you're implying here? I'm well aware of CAVEAT EMPTOR and anyone is free to pay whatever bonkers price they want to for a tatty old comic. But the CGC is complicit here giving the seller the opportunity to attempt to fleece someone for nigh on £10,000 when until recently I was buying copies of Mystic for a maximum of £5 each and wouldn't have dreamed of getting one slabbed even if it did feature the FF or the Avengers etc on the cover.

I'm just saying that it is worth a fraction of that ridiculous price. A very small fraction.

I've already made my position on CGC's ridiculous nonsense very clear.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/24/2022 at 8:53 PM, Lazyboy said:

On 4/24/2022 at 8:25 PM, marmat said:

There is an article about foreign editions in the CGC main age right now

Yeah, that's why this thread got bumped (again) on Thursday, with that link.

Sorry @marmat, I missed your posts. Yes, we were discussing the announcement over the last few pages of the thread. Do you have a view on it all, as someone who dabbles in international books?

[marmat]

On 4/24/2022 at 12:28 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Only four tweaks needed, really:

1. Make the actual comic title primary in all cases, and the reproduced US cover title secondary as a label note (census record should always be literal too, with a searchable function for books that share the same cover)
2. Where reprinted, first appearance notations to always include the relevant non-US appearance country (e.g. "1st appearance of the Hulk in Italy") so as to preserve the integrity of the original book
3. Reprint status to always be noted (e.g. "Reprints original material from The Amazing Spider-Man #1 (Marvel Comics 1963)")
4. The word 'Edition' to be banished (because it isn't required, and can be misleading)

 

 

On 4/30/2022 at 9:53 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Sorry @marmat, I missed your posts. Yes, we were discussing the announcement over the last few pages of the thread. Do you have a view on it all, as someone who dabbles in international books?

I think that your analysis is spot on for points 1 and 2.

I do not agree about the reprint comment. I believe those are foreign "editions", to me a reprint is a later printing of the same comic by the same publisher in the same country. Take books as an example, to me the "IT" book by Stephen King published in Spain is the spanish edition of IT, not a reprint. 

It also works the other way around, the US editions of Tin Tin comics are not reprint, they are US editions of Tin Tin 

Edited April 30, 2022 by marmat

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/30/2022 at 12:36 PM, marmat said:

 

I think that your analysis is spot on for points 1 and 2.

I do not agree about the reprint comment. I believe those are foreign "editions", to me a reprint is a later printing of the same comic by the same publisher in the same country. Take books as an example, to me the "IT" book by Stephen King published in Spain is the spanish edition of IT, not a reprint. 

It also works the other way around, the US editions of Tin Tin comics are not reprint, they are US editions of Tin Tin 

I see where you're coming from Marmat, thanks. Throughout the thread I have suggested "Reprints/reproduces" as possible wording to signify where original content is repeated. "Reproduces" would probably be the better choice. An international book may not necessarily be an exact or full content reprint of an original US book, but to say that it 'reproduces' original content (in full or in part) is certainly accurate and I think desirable therefore to protect the integrity of the original publication. And it of course should work both ways, as you say.

Some examples of how the industry tackle it:

 

[Albert Tatlock]

And these are nowhere to be found on the census.

Maybe it has to do with the size?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 5/8/2022 at 4:19 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

And these are nowhere to be found on the census.

Maybe it has to do with the size?

I don't own one, but I think they are too deep for the slabs Albert. 

 

[Yorick]

I'm looking for the "English edition" of Lalo Saxon.  Anyone have one?

[Albert Tatlock]

On 5/8/2022 at 4:40 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I think they are too deep for the slabs

But this one wouldn't be.

It contains classic Ditko, but it looks like no-one has submitted a copy.

There are also may other similar British anthologies which have gone under the radar of CGC.

[Albert Tatlock]

On 5/8/2022 at 9:49 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

There are also may other similar British anthologies which have gone under the radar of CGC.

And there were literally hundreds of British childrens' Annuals with reprints of Golden and Silver Age US strips.(a couple attached).

Not just the common Batman, Superadventure, etc Annuals, but a whole range of titles.

I doubt whether anyone in the States knows much about them.

Denis Gifford would have been the man to ask. He probably had a list of just about all of them.

It would probably take more time and patience than CGC have at their disposal currently to assemble anything like a complete bibliography.

[themagicrobot]

Aren't UK Annuals classed as books rather than comics Albert and thus unlikely to be slabbed by the CGC, interesting as the T. V (that's Thomas Volney not Television)  Boardman ones are. As for the T.V Boardman comics of the 1940s/1950s they have slipped under most peoples radar and rarely appear for sale. For a while they did UK reprints of Quality titles such as Blackhawk and a few issues of Plastic Man in the 1950s. They also had UK produced stuff such as Buffalo Bill and Swift Morgan.

Mostly remembered now for the annuals they produced in the 1950s which usually reprinted Golden Age Quality in black and white and occasionally colour. These annuals  (sold exclusively in Woolworths?) being sturdy books with hard covers have survived well and are still cheap considering their contents. The Buffalo Bill annuals, with great artwork by Denis McLoughlin are increasing in price. I've just bought this from EEEbuyGumBay for £3.95. Admittedly not mint though but interesting none-the-less.

Edited May 9, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Albert Tatlock]

On 5/9/2022 at 10:20 AM, themagicrobot said:

Aren't UK Annuals classed as books rather than comics

Most of them are indeed hardback and pretty substantial, but there are a few softback, similar in size and shape to the old pulp magazines. They, in the main, do not weather too well.

CGC might be provided with a few submissions in this area, they have, after all, included the T & P Flash, etc which are pretty close.

[Get Marwood & I]

I saw this online earlier:

 

Tomorrow night on The Amazing with Bryan McClay join Bryan Robert Fordham maybe Matthew Roybal and myself as we get to talk to Matt Nelson about CGC's foreign announcement and listen to him talk about his feelings towards foreigns and what he believes their impact could be on the future of comic collecfing. I've waited for this chance for over a year now and am beyond excited to have him as a special guest. We will start the show at 9pm est. Link to subcribe so you don't miss a beat

https://youtube.com/c/TheAmazingWithBryanMcClay

 

Might be interesting.

9pm EST is 2am UK time, so I'll it watch tomorrow (UK Thursday!)

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 5/11/2022 at 5:46 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I saw this online earlier:

 

Tomorrow night on The Amazing with Bryan McClay join Bryan Robert Fordham maybe Matthew Roybal and myself as we get to talk to Matt Nelson about CGC's foreign announcement and listen to him talk about his feelings towards foreigns and what he believes their impact could be on the future of comic collecfing. I've waited for this chance for over a year now and am beyond excited to have him as a special guest. We will start the show at 9pm est. Link to subcribe so you don't miss a beat

https://youtube.com/c/TheAmazingWithBryanMcClay

 

Might be interesting.

9pm EST is 2am UK time, so I'll it watch tomorrow (UK Thursday!)

[Define999]

On 5/11/2022 at 4:46 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I saw this online earlier:

 

Tomorrow night on The Amazing with Bryan McClay join Bryan Robert Fordham maybe Matthew Roybal and myself as we get to talk to Matt Nelson about CGC's foreign announcement and listen to him talk about his feelings towards foreigns and what he believes their impact could be on the future of comic collecfing. I've waited for this chance for over a year now and am beyond excited to have him as a special guest. We will start the show at 9pm est. Link to subcribe so you don't miss a beat

https://youtube.com/c/TheAmazingWithBryanMcClay

 

Might be interesting.

9pm EST is 2am UK time, so I'll it watch tomorrow (UK Thursday!)

It was quite interesting. I really enjoyed talking to Matt. What is clear is foreigns are getting ready to have their day in the sun. Already, in certain instances we have seen certain foreign keys sell for more than its US counterpart grade for grade. Discount international "editions" at your peril. And yes... that was Matt Nelson claiming at the end he prefers the Italian "edition" of Spiderman 300 over the US. LOL

Edited May 12, 2022 by Define999

[Get Marwood & I]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:11 PM, Define999 said:

Discount international "editions" at your peril. And yes... that was Matt Nelson claiming at the end he prefers the Italian "edition" of Spiderman 300 over the US. LOL

Anche abbastanza giusto!

[marmat]

On 5/12/2022 at 6:26 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Anche abbastanza giusto!

Not to mention the scarcity factor. Some foreign comics are unicorns

[Get Marwood & I]

On 5/12/2022 at 7:12 PM, marmat said:

Not to mention the scarcity factor. Some foreign comics are unicorns

Indeed. They're lovely things. 

[Yorick]

On 5/11/2022 at 3:46 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

we get to talk to Matt Nelson about CGC's foreign announcement

I thought it was pretty funny that he mentioned you. 

I'm looking forward to seeing the Heritage auction dedicated to "foreign" comics.