Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 8/3/2021 at 6:15 PM, alexgross.com said:

 

thanks for clarifying that. i still bid on heritage books sometimes, but never pre-bid any longer. too many people have stories just like mine, where the very high early proxy bid was shockingly bid right up to the max increment before the live auction. it may not be legal for auction houses to know submitted proxy bids, but since it's in the software somewhere, i am convinced that some auction houses (or all) do indeed know those bids. and heritage has the advantage of being able to bid on any item in THEIR OWN AUCTION.

but perhaps they didn't know my max, and they just happened to have an employee who wanted a book as bad as me and proxy bid it over GPA by around 25% two years ago, when prices were much more stable than these days. perhaps. 

I don't pre-bid either, for this same reason.

[G.A.tor]

On 8/3/2021 at 6:09 PM, blazingbob said:

Put them away for what?  There isn't a silver age book that a dealer needs to "put away".  I had customers asking for FF #4 at the last two shows I did.  

I put them away for cons. I’ve had zero success buying inv lately so the cons I’ve committed to I want to have something to put on the wall. 

[G.A.tor]

On 8/3/2021 at 7:23 PM, SexyBeast said:

Then what is N P Gresham considered?

Who is that ?

[alexgross.com]

On 8/3/2021 at 4:50 PM, G.A.tor said:

Who is that ?

a well publicized lawsuit over a decade ago, alleging essentially the same thing against heritage that we are discussing now. though it's way off topic for this thread. 

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/2009/09/lifting_the_veil_at_heritage_a.html

 

The amended complaint in Gary Hendershott's lawsuit against the Dallas-based Heritage Auctions -- which I briefly noted on Monday -- runs 104 pages, including its exhibits.Hendershott's Texas attorneys, John Carney and Mark Senter, allege in the court filing that "the Heritage defendants use N.P. Gresham, a fake bidder, to rip off legitimate bidders." They note that James Halperin, one of the owners of the auction house, testified under oath that N.P Gresham does not exist, but is in fact "Heritage or partnerships involving Heritage or independent contractors that worked for Heritage."

The point of bringing a shill bidder into play? Carney and Senter make the following case:
19. When Heritage elected to expand beyond its active and well-known coin auctions, into memorabilia and other areas, Heritage became frustrated that non-reserve items were being scooped up by bidders for low prices. During this time period, sometime in 2007, at a meeting led by Paul Minshull, one of the owners of Heritage, it was decided that N.P. Gresham would be used for non-reserve items to "bid up" those prices before the auction bidding was opened to the general public.
20. Defendants used N.P. Gresham as a sham bidder or shill to bid against Hendershott at various auctions ... (A)s seen in Exhibit 4, N.P. Gresham, which was in fact Heritage, was bidding on items when it stated no house bids were to be made. N.P. Gresham actively bids in almost every auction Heritage conducts ...

22. On many occasions when N.P. Gresham would bid up the auction price, but no other valid bidders bid above the N.P. Gresham bid, N.P. Gresham would "purchase" the item in order to avoid the appearance of the item not being successfully auctioned.

23. The fact that N.P. Gresham was a fictitious individual was never revealed to Mr. Hendershott and was never disclosed to any other bidders at these various auctions ...

25. The Heritage Defendants, by using the fictitious N.P. Gresham, forced the prices up on non-reserve items, when there should have been no minimum price. As a consequence, the Heritage Defendants, using N.P. Gresham, greatly increased the bid prices of non-reserve items, which is a blatant violation of the law, violates the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) ... and is violative of Texas auction statues.

Edited August 4, 2021 by alexgross.com

[jeffreyk]

It seems to me that 70s and 80s marvels are dropping a bit but are still way over pre-covid levels.  Early silver age Marvels and silver age keys are still doing well.

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:35 PM, jeffreyk said:

It seems to me that 70s and 80s marvels are dropping a bit but are still way over pre-covid levels.  Early silver age Marvels and silver age keys are still doing well.

From your keyboard to God's dual monitor.

I've been having fun upgrading some Bronze Age Marvels and there are a few sellers on eBay trying to charge ransom prices on some very ordinary books.

[ThothAmon]

Is a picture worth a thousand words?  The real question is what have the people who pushed them up in mid June moved on to?   Probably divorce court.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by ThothAmon

[Brock]

On 8/1/2021 at 9:28 PM, comicginger1789 said:

Asking prices are high. Books selling seem to be lower than 3/4 months ago. 
 

Not sure if it’s the summer/ semi return to normal effect. I know summers can be slower for sales because well people aren’t as focused on comics.

I'm a small potatoes ebay seller, but in looking at this July vs last July, my gross sales are up 10%, but my volume is down 40%. That (very narrow) view of the market suggests to me that last year everything was selling, and the market is now selecting fewer but pricier books.

[alexgross.com]

On 8/4/2021 at 7:46 AM, Brock said:

I'm a small potatoes ebay seller, but in looking at this July vs last July, my gross sales are up 10%, but my volume is down 40%. That (very narrow) view of the market suggests to me that last year everything was selling, and the market is now selecting fewer but pricier books.

i'd also guess that last summer everyone was shopping online exclusively, now that most things are open and back to semi-normal, we dont all need to be on feebay all the time. i have 5 comic book stores in my city and there are cons again. (hope it lasts.)

[1Cool]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:46 AM, Brock said:

I'm a small potatoes ebay seller, but in looking at this July vs last July, my gross sales are up 10%, but my volume is down 40%. That (very narrow) view of the market suggests to me that last year everything was selling, and the market is now selecting fewer but pricier books.

This July compared to last July is night and day.  This year is about twice what happened last year.  But comparing this March to this July is kind of telling - March was 1.6x the sales last month but the number of books sold was 2.4x compared to last month.  The amount of $10 - $15 books sold this spring was just crazy but now it seems people are back to gravitating to the hot book of the week or slabbed keys.

Edited August 4, 2021 by 1Cool

[G.A.tor]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:25 AM, ThothAmon said:

Is a picture worth a thousand words?  The real question is what have the people who pushed them up in mid June moved on to?   Probably divorce court.

 

 

so the same seller had 4 identical sets to sell over the months?...

[WolverineX]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:25 AM, ThothAmon said:

Is a picture worth a thousand words?  The real question is what have the people who pushed them up in mid June moved on to?   Probably divorce court.

 

 

Why is that the same photo over and over?

[Callaway29]

I assumed this represented lazy flippers who just reused the previous seller's pics? With each flip resulting in a loss... I could be wrong though...

[wiparker824]

On 8/4/2021 at 11:24 AM, G.A.tor said:

so the same seller had 4 identical sets to sell over the months?...

Looks like it, although they weren’t identical. Same books different conditions which makes this price comparison quite silly. Just looking at one of the big keys of X-Men 94 the seller graded them at the following in these lots:

$4,050 sale - GD (coupon clipped)

$4,750 sale - GD+ 

$5,753 sale - VG+

$9,101 sale - 6.5

I’m not going to compare every book, but it seems like the prices here are more a reflection of the grades of the keys than the dates they were sold. You’re comparing apples and oranges. 

[JollyComics]

On 4/26/2021 at 5:25 PM, jjonahjameson11 said:

For books that I'm watching, ASM 238 has slowed and actually dropped quite a bit from its peak 4-5 weeks ago. 

The other books that I'm tracking are still in high demand at ever-increasing prices:

ASM 121, 129, 194, 195, 210, 252, 298, 299, 300, 326, 365, Ann 16

Hulk 340

Thor 337

Do you mean 326 as 316?

[G.A.tor]

On 8/4/2021 at 3:01 PM, JollyComics said:

Do you mean 326 as 316?

the he already confirmed it was 316 he meant 

[ThothAmon]

On 8/4/2021 at 2:51 PM, wiparker824 said:

You’re comparing apples and oranges. 

 First three photos are the Jun 6 $9700 sale, next three are July 18 sale. Apples to apples as I see it with an admittedly wormy apple in the second auction. $5500 price difference to get a mid grade instead of a low grade X-Men 94? More is going on than that  

 

On 8/4/2021 at 2:24 PM, G.A.tor said:

so the same seller had 4 identical sets to sell over the months?...

No such thing as identical of course but average grade in both for the same issues was described as VF+. 
 

[wiparker824]

On 8/4/2021 at 12:50 PM, ThothAmon said:

 First three photos are the Jun 6 $9700 sale, next three are July 18 sale. Apples to apples as I see it with an admittedly wormy apple in the second auction. $5500 price difference to get a mid grade instead of a low grade X-Men 94? More is going on than that  

 

No such thing as identical of course but average grade in both for the same issues was described as VF+. 
 

It’s more than one book but if you don’t see that from the images you posted I don’t know what to tell you, the first set in addition to having a much higher grade for 94, every book from 109 to 143 is VF or better with most 9.2 or better and even some being declared a 9.8, whereas the other lot only lists a few books with grades leaving us to guess the rest of the grades as not all the books are pictured. Plus just the X-Men 94 alone being such a key in this run with a coupon clipped is going to be a huge turnoff for a lot of buyers. It’s just not a comparable thing, this isn’t to say this is the only factor in why these prices are different but it’s certainly a factor. And you’re saying that there’s no such thing as identical, and that isn’t true we do see single books with the exact same cert number sell multiple times in a year, but even if you don’t want to hunt those down you can very easily find books with the same grade in CGC cases that sell month after month at auction, not giant lots like this, but certainly single books.

Prices maybe dropping but this just seems like a flawed example of that to me.

[WolverineX]

On 8/3/2021 at 8:22 PM, alexgross.com said:

a well publicized lawsuit over a decade ago, alleging essentially the same thing against heritage that we are discussing now. though it's way off topic for this thread. 

 

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/2009/09/lifting_the_veil_at_heritage_a.html

 

The amended complaint in Gary Hendershott's lawsuit against the Dallas-based Heritage Auctions -- which I briefly noted on Monday -- runs 104 pages, including its exhibits.Hendershott's Texas attorneys, John Carney and Mark Senter, allege in the court filing that "the Heritage defendants use N.P. Gresham, a fake bidder, to rip off legitimate bidders." They note that James Halperin, one of the owners of the auction house, testified under oath that N.P Gresham does not exist, but is in fact "Heritage or partnerships involving Heritage or independent contractors that worked for Heritage."

The point of bringing a shill bidder into play? Carney and Senter make the following case:
19. When Heritage elected to expand beyond its active and well-known coin auctions, into memorabilia and other areas, Heritage became frustrated that non-reserve items were being scooped up by bidders for low prices. During this time period, sometime in 2007, at a meeting led by Paul Minshull, one of the owners of Heritage, it was decided that N.P. Gresham would be used for non-reserve items to "bid up" those prices before the auction bidding was opened to the general public.
20. Defendants used N.P. Gresham as a sham bidder or shill to bid against Hendershott at various auctions ... (A)s seen in Exhibit 4, N.P. Gresham, which was in fact Heritage, was bidding on items when it stated no house bids were to be made. N.P. Gresham actively bids in almost every auction Heritage conducts ...

22. On many occasions when N.P. Gresham would bid up the auction price, but no other valid bidders bid above the N.P. Gresham bid, N.P. Gresham would "purchase" the item in order to avoid the appearance of the item not being successfully auctioned.

23. The fact that N.P. Gresham was a fictitious individual was never revealed to Mr. Hendershott and was never disclosed to any other bidders at these various auctions ...

25. The Heritage Defendants, by using the fictitious N.P. Gresham, forced the prices up on non-reserve items, when there should have been no minimum price. As a consequence, the Heritage Defendants, using N.P. Gresham, greatly increased the bid prices of non-reserve items, which is a blatant violation of the law, violates the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) ... and is violative of Texas auction statues.

Seems like this could easily happen and super v shady 

[Motor City Rob]

On 8/4/2021 at 4:29 PM, wiparker824 said:

It’s more than one book but if you don’t see that from the images you posted I don’t know what to tell you, the first set in addition to having a much higher grade for 94, every book from 109 to 143 is VF or better with most 9.2 or better and even some being declared a 9.8, whereas the other lot only lists a few books with grades leaving us to guess the rest of the grades as not all the books are pictured. Plus just the X-Men 94 alone being such a key in this run with a coupon clipped is going to be a huge turnoff for a lot of buyers. It’s just not a comparable thing, this isn’t to say this is the only factor in why these prices are different but it’s certainly a factor. And you’re saying that there’s no such thing as identical, and that isn’t true we do see single books with the exact same cert number sell multiple times in a year, but even if you don’t want to hunt those down you can very easily find books with the same grade in CGC cases that sell month after month at auction, not giant lots like this, but certainly single books.

Prices maybe dropping but this just seems like a flawed example of that to me.

I tend to agree with you. Not sure why these two examples are being considered "apples to apples". Very far from that, IMO.