Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[HotKey]

Well if he submits like normal like everyone else, we should be able to see all his submission forms then with fees. That would clear up a good chunk.

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/5/2021 at 9:52 PM, HotKey said:

Well if he submits like normal like everyone else, we should be able to see all his submission forms then with fees. That would clear up a good chunk.

It's not up to him to prove his innocence.  

It's up to Seth Abramson to prove his guilt.....which he hasn't done.

 

[HotKey]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:55 PM, Domo Arigato said:

It's not up to him to prove his innocence.  

It's up to Seth Abramson to prove his guilt.....which he hasn't done.

 

This isn't a court of law, we all know the court of public opinion isn't innocent until proven guilty. He is by no means required to provide them but if everything is legit as he claims then he should provide them to restore confidence.

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/5/2021 at 10:47 PM, HotKey said:

This isn't a court of law, we all know the court of public opinion isn't innocent until proven guilty. He is by no means required to provide them but if everything is legit as he claims then he should provide them to restore confidence.

No business and no individual should feel they need to provide such information based on unfounded accusations by someone who twists everything to fit his own agenda. 

And where does it end?

Do you think that would end it with Seth Abramson?  I don't.  I don't think anything would. 

He came to his conclusions and is now trying to get everything to fit them.  That's not what someone looking for the truth does.

 

[Cat]

On 9/6/2021 at 1:54 PM, Domo Arigato said:

No business and no individual should feel they need to provide such information based on unfounded accusations by someone who twists everything to fit his own agenda. 

And where does it end?

Do you think that would end it with Seth Abramson?  I don't.  I don't think anything would. 

He came to his conclusions and is now trying to get everything to fit them.  That's not what someone looking for the truth does.

 

 

I really think you've mischafscterised this Seth guy, Domo, but it's not my hobby. I admit I don't know if it's one of yours as well (I don't recall you mentioning it before, but that'd be on me if wrong), but I gather you must be, due to your sheer amount of posts here.

You've really got a passion for this thread, and that's good, but I fear some of it may be displaced. Some of this stuff, IMO, does seem a bit dodgy and worth exploring, and I can't understand why you're so adamantly against it, unless you've got greater involvement in this (and that's fine if you do!). 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:12 PM, Mecha_Fantastic said:

 

I really think you've mischafscterised this Seth guy, Domo, but it's not my hobby. I admit I don't know if it's one of yours as well (I don't recall you mentioning it before, but that'd be on me if wrong), but I gather you must be, due to your sheer amount of posts here.

You've really got a passion for this thread, and that's good, but I fear some of it may be displaced. Some of this stuff, IMO, does seem a bit dodgy and worth exploring, and I can't understand why you're so adamantly against it, unless you've got greater involvement in this (and that's fine if you do!). 

 

My background in the hobby can be found here.

And I don't think I'm mischaracterizing Abramson at all.  He's a known conspiracy theorist.  Here are the title to three of his books.....(edited out to comply with board rules).  

Do you think he's doing this for the benefit of the hobby?  Or do you think he's doing it for his next 15 minutes and another million clicks....or perhaps another book deal?  He understands how this game and the internet today works.  He's very good at that.  All that's required is the accusation.....regardless of how thin your evidence is or if you even have any actual evidence.

Haspel gave a very reasonable response explaining what his participation was with WATA, and why he isn't hiding the fact that he's selling games.  He essentially shredded the accusations that were leveled against him by Abramson.  What did Abramson then do?  He ignored logic and facts and took everything Haspel said and twisted it to fit his own agenda.  Again, that's not what someone looking for the truth does.

Is there stuff that's a "bit dodgy", as you put it, going on in the hobby?  I'm sure there probably is.  Just like I'm sure there is in all of the collectible hobbies that are dealing in these kinds of dollar figures.   And if someone comes along that is actually familiar with the hobby, interested in the actual truth, and is willing to do real and honest research to reach a conclusion....no matter what that conclusion is......then I'll listen.  Seth Abramson is not that individual.

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[southern cross]

[Cat]

On 9/6/2021 at 2:37 PM, Domo Arigato said:

My background in the hobby can be found here.

And I don't think I'm mischaracterizing Abramson at all.  He's a known conspiracy theorist.  Here are the title to three of his books.....Proof of Collusion......Proof of Conspiracy......Proof of Corruption.  

Do you think he's doing this for the benefit of the hobby?  Or do you think he's doing it for his next 15 minutes and another million clicks....or perhaps another book deal?  He understands how this game and the internet today works.  He's very good at that.  All that's required is the accusation.....regardless of how thin your evidence is or if you even have any actual evidence.

Haspel gave a very good response explaining what his participation was with WATA, and why he isn't hiding the fact that he's selling games.  He essentially shredded the accusations that were levied against him by Abramson.  What did Abramson then do?  He ignored logic and facts and took everything Haspel said and twisted it to fit his own agenda.  Again, that's not what someone looking for the truth does.

Is there stuff that's a "bit dodgy", as you put it, going on in the hobby?  I'm sure there probably is.  Just like I'm sure there is in all of the collectible hobbies that are dealing in these kinds of dollar figures.   And if someone comes along that is actually familiar with the hobby, interested in the actual truth, and is willing to do real and honest research to reach a conclusion....no matter what that conclusion is......then I'll listen.  Seth Abramson is not that individual.

 

Thanks for that, I understand your place in the hobby now (like I said I'd thought you weren't interested in VG's, my bad), and you definitely know more about this Seth than I do. So sure, I'd put more weight on your opinion, no question. Mine still happens to be that something seems a bit off, and I don't think it's resolved just yet. Whether Seth or someone else, somebody needs to continue looking down this path and seeing what comes up. 

[oakman29]

Has the market finally blown up? 🤔

[jimjum12]

On 9/6/2021 at 1:29 AM, oakman29 said:

Has the market finally blown up? 🤔

No, not at all ... but this is from an outsider's perspective, not a lifelong hobbyist. Million dollar sales are still very rare and eBay, for the "GOOD STUFF", is still mid four figures with several at the mid 5 to low 6 figure level. My gut is still that it seems like sour grapes to me. Someone who is desperately trying to stop the train from leaving the station. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

[wombat]

[lou_fine]

On 9/6/2021 at 11:53 AM, wombat said:

Like they say........................a picture is worth a thousand words.  

Especially in this case here in their very Steve Jobs like pose, where this one particular picture alone clearly tells us a whole lot more than all of the words that Haspel can put together, no matter which way he tries to spin and contort them.    

Edited September 6, 2021 by lou_fine

[MetalPSI]

Stu can't post because all he has is opinion 

[Domo Arigato]

Excerpts from Mark Haspel's statement:

I have never been an employee of Wata.

I have never been a board member or officer of Wata.

I was a passive investor in Wata. Like other passive investors in the company, I never had any oversight role or made any management decisions for Wata. I have never been involved in the day to day operations at Wata.

I was listed in the Wata SEC filings as was required because of my investment in the company.

I am featured on Wata’s website to help market video game certification to collectors, investors and dealers in other collecting fields. I attended various conventions with Wata in order to help cross promote video game collecting to collectors from other collectable spaces.

I briefly visited the Wata offices 2 times since its launch in April 2018. The last time I was there was in July 2019. I live in Florida. Wata is located in Denver, CO.

At no point did I have access to information from Wata that the general public does not. I have no access to Wata’s computer system or database, and I have never had access to any private information about submissions, submitters, financials or population reports.

Mark Haspel

 

This doesn't appear to be spinning.  Unlike what Seth Abramson provides, these are clear statements.  If Abramson....or anyone else....has any actual evidence that proves any of these statements to be false, I'm sure a lot of people would like to see it.

 

[comicwiz]

And yet:

 

Excerpt from Seth's post

• Why didn’t you just have your games graded with VGA, instead?

• Do you now own stock in Collectors Holdings or Collectors Universe?

• Was your identity as a customer hidden from WATA graders when you submitted games?

• Have you ever lodged a complaint about a grade you’ve received from WATA?

• Have you ever had conversations with either Deniz Kahn or Kenneth Thrower about any grades you received from WATA, or informed them in advance when you were submitting games?

• At any point after your initial investment in WATA, did you add or subtract any funds from that investment, which potentially might have put WATA on notice that your continued financial involvement in the company was contingent?

• Did you ever discuss submission trends with either Kahn or Thrower, such that you may have had information on WATA’s business operations others did not?

• Were any of your games graded by either Deniz Kahn or Kenneth Thrower? Do you have any basis to know if this was or was not the case?

• Did you in fact purchase large quantities of sealed video games at a time you had non-public information, as an investor in WATA, that a new grading house was about to be formed—a grading house that planned to use a different grading scale than VGA, and therefore a grading house that might privilege certain types of sealed games over others (in terms of title or box/seal-condition combination)?

• Were you part of the group, with Richard Lecce and James Halperin, that bought a Super Mario Bros.—one that later sold for $100,000—from Dan Maresca, a self-described “friend” of WATA? If Maresca a friend of yours as well?

• Will you commit to not grading with WATA, or selling WATA games, if you hold stock in Collectors Holdings or Collectors Universe, or still hold any advisory, executive, or agency role with either WATA or either of those two companies?

• Will you commit to not grading games with CGC, or selling CGC-graded games, if CGC continues to utilize you in any advisory, executive, or agency role after it starts up its Video Games Division?

• Do you hold any stock in CGC?

• Was Richard Lecce indeed an investor in WATA? Was he a co-founder, as he now claims? While you were intimately involved in WATA’s marketing and saw Deniz Kahn pretending not to know Lecce—or the game Lecce was trying to sell on the History Channel—did you realize it was a commercial misrepresentation intended to profit WATA and therefore goose your past investment in it?

• As an SEC-identified “promoter” of WATA’s grading capabilities—which grading capabilities you would’ve naturally been less enthusiastic about had they ever operated to your detriment, and which prospective displeasure Kahn and Thrower would have apprehended as a potential threat to your continued investor and promoter status—how frequently, while you were having your own games graded by WATA, did you make public or private representations to media, WATA customers, potential WATA investors, or collectibles-industry figures about the quality of the very WATA grading practices you were then financially benefiting from?

• Given your claim to be only a “passive investor” in WATA, and therefore someone who would not have any special access to or communication with WATA or any of its affiliated entities, was the public statement you just issued reviewed by anyone at WATA, Collectors Holdings, Collectors Universe, or Goldin Solutions—the high-powered public relations firm retained by WATA, Collectors Holdings, and Collectors Universe—in advance? If so, why are you privately acting in concert with entities you are now publicly saying you have nothing to do with whatsoever?

These are just a few of the questions that remain unanswered by Mark Haspel. Given that Haspel says he considers “transparent dialogue” to be “healthy and necessary for all participants in the video game collecting space,” perhaps he’ll be willing to answer these and other questions.

 

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/6/2021 at 4:28 PM, Domo Arigato said:

Unlike what Seth Abramson provides, these are clear statements.  If Abramson....or anyone else....has any actual evidence that proves any of these statements to be false, I'm sure a lot of people would like to see it.

Haspel isn't Seth Abramson's dancing monkey.

Abramson is supposed to be the one making the big expose'.

Where's all of his evidence?  For someone who claimed to have information to "blow the lid" off this thing, it seems like all he really has is questions and innuendo.  Which is his typical M.O.........ask a question.......take the answer and ask 50 more questions about it while making thinly veiled and baseless accusations......rinse and repeat.

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[comicwiz]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:52 PM, Domo Arigato said:

Haspel isn't Seth Abramson's dancing monkey.

Abramson is supposed to be the one making the big expose'.

Where's all of his evidence?  For someone who claimed to have information to "blow the lid" off this thing, it seems like all he really has is questions and innuendo.  Which is his typical M.O.........ask a question.......take the answer and ask 50 more questions about it while making thinly veiled and baseless accusations......rinse and repeat.

 

I don't think so. The person exposing it is providing the opportunity for "transparent dialogue" to be 'healthy and necessary for all participants in the video game collecting space.” 

No one forced him to write those words into his announcement, and someone out there will want to know what's really going on. And not for WATA customers only, but for all the companies with which he's involved.

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:14 PM, comicwiz said:

I don't think so. The person exposing it is providing the opportunity for "transparent dialogue" to be 'healthy and necessary for all participants in the video game collecting space.” 

No one forced him to write those words into his announcement, and someone out there will want to know what's really going on. And not for WATA customers only, but for all the companies with which he's involved.

Seth Abramson is clearly not interested in "transparent dialogue".  His previous history makes that clear for anyone that wants to search it out.  

Abramson made baseless accusations while trying to lead people to believe he had some sort of actual proof.  Haspel addressed those accusations with clear and concise statements that aren't ambiguous at all.  Abramson then takes those answers and twists them to fit his agenda or ignores them entirely.  He then buries the person in further questions to make it seem like he is seeking information, when the questions themselves are designed to indicate wrong doing before they're even answered.  And his last statement indicates that it will never end....."perhaps he’ll be willing to answer these and other questions".  His questions won't end because he's not getting the answers that fit his agenda. 

All someone has to do is look at the first question on that list.  It's what he does.  It's all he does.  And it's not up to others to answer his endless stream of questions while he tries to find evidence to back up his accusations. 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[wombat]

On 9/6/2021 at 5:28 PM, Domo Arigato said:

Excerpts from Mark Haspel's statement:

I have never been an employee of Wata.

I have never been a board member or officer of Wata.

I was a passive investor in Wata. Like other passive investors in the company, I never had any oversight role or made any management decisions for Wata. I have never been involved in the day to day operations at Wata.

I was listed in the Wata SEC filings as was required because of my investment in the company.

I am featured on Wata’s website to help market video game certification to collectors, investors and dealers in other collecting fields. I attended various conventions with Wata in order to help cross promote video game collecting to collectors from other collectable spaces.

I briefly visited the Wata offices 2 times since its launch in April 2018. The last time I was there was in July 2019. I live in Florida. Wata is located in Denver, CO.

At no point did I have access to information from Wata that the general public does not. I have no access to Wata’s computer system or database, and I have never had access to any private information about submissions, submitters, financials or population reports.

Mark Haspel

 

This doesn't appear to be spinning.  Unlike what Seth Abramson provides, these are clear statements.  If Abramson....or anyone else....has any actual evidence that proves any of these statements to be false, I'm sure a lot of people would like to see it.

 

Amazing the one and only way they could accomplish this was to declare he was part of the executive team. At best it is deceiving and fraudulent and at worst it is actually true. Your classic win/win.