Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[comicwiz]

On 8/24/2021 at 6:23 PM, valiantman said:

You certainly won't lose $8,000 like buying a whole WATA Atari Spider-Man for $9,000 in 2020 and seeing it sell for $800 less in 2021. 

Fixed that for you

[iggy]

On 8/24/2021 at 7:20 PM, comicwiz said:

On 8/24/2021 at 5:23 PM, valiantman said:

You certainly won't lose $8,000 like buying a whole WATA Atari Spider-Man for $9,000 in 2020 and seeing it sell for $800 less in 2021. 

Fixed that for you

No fixing needed. Screen shots from the video:

[MatterEaterLad]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:44 PM, Buzzetta said:

Funny you mention that. 

That was also part of this morning's texts back and forth how one specific art dealer took on the inventory of another dealer's who took it on from another.  I have been following a set of certain pages when they were announced to the public as being 'for sale' and then they 'sold' but the others were available at an increased price. 

I am becoming disenchanted with collecting these days. 

This has been happening in the fine art world forever. A group works together to pump prices on pieces they've hoarded, then they sell at artificially inflated values. I always had the feeling this was happening occasionally with comics and certain auction houses, but figured there's a broader general interest in comics, plus nostalgia, enough to keep the market fairly honest. I'm feeling pretty disenchanted these days as well. Which is weird because the value of my collection has doubled in the past year. I'm guessing that's why a lot of collectors and dealers put on blinders and just don't want to know. 

[Bird]

On 8/24/2021 at 10:33 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

This has been happening in the fine art world forever. A group works together to pump prices on pieces they've hoarded, then they sell at artificially inflated values. I always had the feeling this was happening occasionally with comics and certain auction houses, but figured there's a broader general interest in comics, plus nostalgia, enough to keep the market fairly honest. I'm feeling pretty disenchanted these days as well. Which is weird because the value of my collection has doubled in the past year. I'm guessing that's why a lot of collectors and dealers put on blinders and just don't want to know. 

I am feeling this way as well tonight. Maybe time for a sales thread soon! I have been very close to a HA consignment a few times recently and have been put off each time by small things. It shouldn't feel like a hassle and certainly shouldn't feel like a slimy hobby. 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/24/2021 at 6:23 PM, valiantman said:

 

Nah, Rally was one-third of one sentence about buying shares in the asset, but not having physical ownership.  That's a concept worthy of its own 52 minute video, not 15 seconds in this one.

Bottom line, though, if you put $100 into Rally (or Otis, or Mythic Markets) you might lose $100 on a comic, card, video game, jersey, exotic car, 1st edition novel, or any other item, but you won't lose more than $100.

You certainly won't lose $8,000 like buying a whole WATA Atari Spider-Man for $9,000 in 2020 and seeing it sell for $8,000 less in 2021. 

Everything that Rally Road is accused of I said they could possibly do and more when they arrived on the scene.

I guess the trick is at this point for those buying in is to make sure they are not left holding the bag or becoming too closely involved.

Good luck. 

 

[MasterChief]

On 8/24/2021 at 3:25 AM, Dr. Love said:

Mark Wilson as Deep Throat. Oh the irony!

Irony indeed!

If you never admit or deny anything, it makes things more interesting, particularly when it comes to the benefactors of the cabal of corruption.

So... that cat Wilson, the one in the video... is he now going by the name of "David?"

He says his eBay handle is Collector Comics, but in the past that eBay ID was associated with the name of Thomas Wilson, not David Wilson.

Both Mark Wilson and the son Thomas Wilson were connected by a litany of compelling evidence as the perpetrators behind the Face Jobs (reverse spine roll) that created quite the manipulation controversy here on the boards several years back. So much so, those Wilson-ized books, and the public outrage that ensued, got the attention and involvement of CGC, much in the way that the Ewart scandal did.

For those that may have missed the Face Job alterations, here are two links to the story. Also provided is a thread about eBay seller collectors_comics.

 

 

 

 

[MasterChief]

On 8/24/2021 at 12:40 PM, comicwiz said:

The stealth reconditioning aspects aside, the one glaring thing this video misses is the importance of that time gap between NCI being shuttered, and WATA forming - particularly how they used this hobby of ours as a stepping stone to bide them time, cut their teeth, all while licking their wounds after a watchdog was on to their chicanery. The footage showing a confident man, who seemingly has no care in the world, is in sharp contrast to a person  who once seemed all too quick to respond on these boards, making statements of correction on his transgressions, particularly after Forbes did their darnedest to paint a very clear picture for everyone to understand what he did in the coin grading world. The perverse manner with which the players instilled a paranoia and fear we were leaving money on the table if we didn't flatten everything into pancakes, being brainwashed into believing that's the only way they were meant to be enjoyed and revered. Their history meant nothing anymore, it was all about numbers. Even worse, everyone acted like nothing was happening or was looking the other way. We had a 15 year head start, and while folks like myself were relegated to misfit for my overly critical view of how the hobby had been turned into something barely recognizable, they managed to walk all over us. All the while, emboldening them. Turning the person who had already had brushes with the FTC from someone operating in the background of Heritage and CGC, to a person with the confidence to take the scheme to the "next big thing." A little over two years ago, the fireworks were going off over WATA right here on these boards with the $100K sale of Super Mario Bros - not all of us fell for it though. Heck, even Halperin was once seen as a way to boost their image, until a few weeks back when the bio was pulled and now it can only be seen through the wayback machine. Two years from the time of the first bogus sale and the video game community appear to not only have had timing on their side, but are hopefully on their way to avoiding the kind of perversion left behind in this hobby of ours.

I must admit that I don’t recall any investigative reporting ever being conducted to shed light on the apparent shenanigans unleashed on the comic book hobby at the beginning of the certification age. Certainly not like the reporting in the video that you posted at the start of this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only story I remember was a short-lived piece that appeared in CBG, which I've pasted below...

***************

Mystery Comics Mystery
by Brent Frankenhoff
Comics Buyer's Guide #1528 (February 28, 2003)

Six years after Nicolas Cage starred in Face/Off, comics collectors are facing off over two copies from his collection. When the copies, auctioned by Heritage Comics Auctions in its October 2002 Signature Auction, were purchased and resubmitted to Comics Guaranty LLC (CGC) and received higher grades, several collectors raised questions to CBG and on CGC’s message boards.

Collectors Raise Questions

The two issues, Marvel Mystery Comics #2 and Marvel Mystery Comics #33, were originally graded 7.5 (VF-) and 8.0 (VF) respectively. After the books were removed from their slabs and resubmitted to CGC for regrading, their respective grades were raised to 9.0 (VF/NM) and 9.2 (NM-).

Dave Blanchard, an Ohio collector, asked CBG, “How can a comic book’s grade increase by 12 to 15% after it has been removed from the slab? If CGC’s own graders can be off by 12 to 15% within a period of months, how do they justify the rates they charge for their grading service?”

Also, some collectors asked if the books had been restored and why the Cage collection information was removed from each books’ new label. Others alleged Heritage bought the comics itself and resubmitted them. “Is this standard operating procedure at Heritage,” Blanchard asked, “(to) purchase comics from their own auctions and then upgrade the condition to get an even higher price?”

Heritage Responds

According to Heritage Director of Auctions John Petty, the books were “not purchased, submitted to CGC, or re-consigned by any Heritage employee or by the firm itself.”

Keeping with the company’s policy of not releasing the names of bidders or consignors, Petty told CBG, “A dealer-client bought them, resubmitted them, and got a higher grade and then reconsigned them with us.”

Petty said that the company did not restore the books. “We do not employ anyone to do restoration, nor do we work on books ourselves,” he added. “We do have outside consultants to do restoration checks for us, but there are no restorationists on our payroll at this time nor have there ever been.”

The Pedigree Question

CGC Primary Grader Steve Borock said that the Cage books do not have a CGC pedigree. Instead, like the Stan Lee file copies, that information about the comic book is entered into CGC’s notes. While pedigreed information is entered on a new label, even if the submitter leaves the information off his submission form, it is not included on non-pedigreed books or ones that CGC doesn’t know are pedigreed. A separate field exists in the computer database for pedigree information. When a pedigreed book enters CGC’s system, that information is noted. “We never gave the Cage books a pedigree designation,” he told CBG. “It was noteworthy and that was noted, but that was it. When a book like that is resubmitted, once the case is opened, there’s a chance that that information won’t be put back on the label, because we might not be able to verify its provenance.”

Borock said that many resubmitted books are sent in without the label, which would reduce the reslabbing fee, “because collectors don’t care about saving the money, they just want the grade. And, some people don’t want us to know where a book’s come from in some cases.” He added that often the original label is sent in at a later date to keep the population report accurate. When the company does have the original grading label, it is removed from the CGC population report database after the book has been regraded. “It can take up to six to eight weeks since that’s about how often we update the population report,” Borock added.

Since its inception, CGC’s policy has been that its graders don’t know where a given comic book has come from throughout the grading process, something that the firm’s volume would also preclude. “In the case of a pedigreed book, I might know who owned it a year and a half ago for example,” Borock said. “But I’m not going to know now if it’s been sold or not. The book might be being resubmitted for any number of reasons. The bottom line is a. we don’t know, and, b. we don’t care. That’s one of the nice things about the way the company’s set up.”

The Grade Change

While the grade changes to the two books in question sound extreme, with a change of 1.5 points for the Marvel Mystery #2 and 1.2 points for the Marvel Mystery #33, in terms of actual comics grades it is a rise from Very Fine- to Very Fine/Near Mint for the #2 and Very Fine to Near Mint- for the #33, gradations that the average collector might be hard-pressed to detect. Borock said that while it is possible for such a rise in grade to happen, it’s very rare. “It really pushes the envelope,” he added. “Our grading reflects how dealers across the country are grading their books. We’d have been out of business if we weren’t close to how the dealers and collectors are grading.”

One factor that may have affected the grade is whether “pressing” was performed on the books. Allegedly, both books were pressed before resubmission, a process where a comic book is flattened by a heavy weight in an attempt to remove spine roll. It’s a process that CGC doesn’t recognize as restoration. Borock said, “When we came to market, people said we couldn’t call pressed books restored, mainly because many pedigreed books had been pressed at some point. When we call a book restored, it has to have been cleaned and pressed or taken apart for restoration or have had other processes performed on it. I personally know many dealers and collectors who for many years have been pressing comic books on a regular basis. Unlike restoration, when a comic-book cover is pressed correctly and safely, it will enhance the look of the comic book, and, in many cases, most experts can’t even tell it has been pressed.”

While CGC began its grading service with three graders on staff and Borock doing the final grading and restoration detection, the company has grown to the point that it now employs eight graders, with Chris Frisen, formerly of Renaissance Restoration, as the company’s restoration detector. “We’ve found missing pages that folks weren’t aware were missing,” Borock said. “We’ve found restored books that had the wrong back cover. Mark Haspel, our senior grader and pedigree expert has even helped find some pedigreed books for folks who didn’t know they owned a pedigree.

“There are extremists who don’t want to hear anything about grading or restoration detection. We’re going to have naysayers no matter what. We combat that by telling the truth 100% of the time.”

Employee Bidding Policies

“We’re upfront about our business as well,” Petty said as he outlined Heritage’s policies about employee bidding on its auctions. “We are permitted to bid on items just like anyone else. We are all collectors ourselves, and we are willing to pay strong prices for items we need. Why shouldn’t we bid like everyone else? If we didn’t participate in our own auctions, our consignors would be deprived of several active participants bidding on their material. Of course our competitors would prefer we didn’t bid, but we don’t work for our competitors — we work for our consignors. And we have to pay the same bidder’s premium and sales tax. If, for example, I win an item, I pay just as much as anyone else. I don’t get a break on the 15% bidder’s premium or the sales tax. The only thing I save on is shipping and handling, which anyone who picks up their lots at the live auctions or here at the firm would also do.”

The Marvel Mystery #2 realized $13,800 in a 7.5 (with glue noted on cover) CGC holder at Heritage’s October auction. When re-offered on eBay in a 9.0 holder (also with glue noted), the issue was bid up to $14,999.99, but did not meet reserve. Petty said, “How much do you think Nicolas Cage would have been offered if he’d brought a Marvel Mystery #2 CGC 7.5 with glue to a dealer that advertises to buy comics outright? I’d guess $7,000 to $8,000, tops, maybe less. But the dealers in attendance at our auctions can determine which books they think are potential upgrades, and will bid up the prices of those books accordingly, to the benefit of the consignors. Furthermore, those books that sell for premium prices don’t always upgrade, and can even occasionally downgrade, upon resubmission, yet our consignors get the benefit of the dealers’ high perceptions even when the dealers are wrong.”

Petty added that the company has revised its employee bidding policy to only allow online bidding prior to a live event and not allow floor bidding by employees any more. “So if anything,” Petty said, “Heritage and its employees are actually now at a slight disadvantage compared to other bidders in our auctions.”

Is Resubmission Common?

While a common practice in coins and sports cards for many years, cracking a slabbed comic book and resubmitting for regrading is fairly new to third-party comics grading. As with the initial submission of the comic book, there is a gamble involved as to whether the grade will go up or down. “It accounts for less than 1% of our business,” Borock said.

Petty said that while Heritage does crack and resubmit some of the CGC-graded comics it purchases, “it’s not a real profitable thing for us. It’s a gamble. This is not how we make our money. It’s not our model. If it was, we’d be out of business very quickly, I think. With our history as a coins auction firm, it is something we’re very familiar with. Collectors not being as familiar or comfortable with it in comics shows just how new it is at this point.”

Borock agreed that reslabbing is a gamble and said, “Collectors are very superstitious and believe in every conspiracy about third-party grading. I occasionally hear, ‘You killed me, this book went down,’ after I’ve regraded a given comic book. It’s rare for the grade to change in resubmission. I’ll never say never, but it doesn’t happen that much.”

Edited August 25, 2021 by MasterChief
midnight spelling :/

[comicwiz]

On 8/25/2021 at 2:55 AM, MasterChief said:

I must admit that I don’t recall any investigative reporting every being conducted to shed light on the apparent shenanigans unleashed on the comic book hobby at the beginning of the certification age.

I would agree that there was never anything put together in the same way, in one single expose with the degree of production value (from the video snippets, to the layers of research) this video achieves. Having it all put together in one stop viewing like this is a huge advantage. However, as a member since 02', there has been a lot of damming information posted, from the time CGC tried to operate as a secretive "fixer" of comics, their first kick at the can with in-house pressing, the scandals over the years involving not only the "grader" but the "auction house." You lived it, you know the backlash I'm referring to for trying to come forward with the truth. When the Ewart books were being flagged, I put together a database with the help of people like yourself, who provided the before and after images, certification numbers, etc, and made it searchable and publicly available, and eventually had to take it down because the server it was hosted on was getting attacks. The server provider didn't mince words when they told me it had to go because it was causing issues on their server farm. When revelations occur, it's not only the "graders" and "auction houses" that are invested in maintaining order and status quo, it's everyone holding a slab. The fear that everything they have 'invested' in will tank is real, so it's not only a fight against the corrupt players and the system, it becomes more of a fight for the truth, and that truth and reality is sometimes too hard for people to bear when it means devaluing everything they've worked to build over their lifetime. Keeping the columns up becomes too important, even if it means they are complicit in the fraud and deception.

Just look at the link I provided previously of when the fireworks were going off on these boards over WATA games - look through that thread and read the warm reception my contrarian view got from one of the "video game" people on these boards. One of the other participants shining a light on the details regarding that $100K Super Mario Bros sale was asked to change info he had posted. Reading through the video comments, I see another forumite trying to weigh in on how this video sheds a bad light on people like Haspel, and I'm thinking to myself, the loyalties must have made them say this, because all I see are people trying to manipulate a market, and anyone that refuses to see the light, or worse, looks the other way, is either wilfully blind or complicit.

Edited August 25, 2021 by comicwiz

[valiantman]

On 8/24/2021 at 10:14 PM, Buzzetta said:

On 8/24/2021 at 5:23 PM, valiantman said:

 

Nah, Rally was one-third of one sentence about buying shares in the asset, but not having physical ownership.  That's a concept worthy of its own 52 minute video, not 15 seconds in this one.

Bottom line, though, if you put $100 into Rally (or Otis, or Mythic Markets) you might lose $100 on a comic, card, video game, jersey, exotic car, 1st edition novel, or any other item, but you won't lose more than $100.

You certainly won't lose $8,000 like buying a whole WATA Atari Spider-Man for $9,000 in 2020 and seeing it sell for $8,000 less in 2021. 

Everything that Rally Road is accused of I said they could possibly do and more when they arrived on the scene.

I guess the trick is at this point for those buying in is to make sure they are not left holding the bag or becoming too closely involved.

Good luck. 

Was there more than 15 seconds of mention of RallyRd in this video?  Were there accusations?  I guess I missed it.

It seemed to me that the narrator was happy that companies like RallyRd have SEC filings that can be seen and studied publicly, and not happy that companies like WATA don't have a census.

[Buzzetta]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:24 AM, valiantman said:

Was there more than 15 seconds of mention of RallyRd in this video?  Were there accusations?  I guess I missed it.

It seemed to me that the narrator was happy that companies like RallyRd have SEC filings that can be seen and studied publicly, and not happy that companies like WATA don't have a census.

If you do not realize that the operations of Rally Rd lead to the same questions as to the assignment of values I do not know what to tell you.

Countless others have laid out the scams of inflating values and Rally Rd to you in numerous threads.

You are a cheerleader for it and see it as the way of the future.  I am sure you are well invested in it financially if not otherwise.

I have seen things like Rally Rd before.  The last time I sniffed something like it I declined to become involved in it despite overtures from a couple of people that were close to me.  The result?  After watching the feds overturn the life of the brother of one of my close friends, seize everything due to his involvement in that very scam that made headlines, I was proven right. 

I would not have anything to do with Rally Rd concerning any significant amount of money unless it is money that you feel like urinating on and throwing in the trash. 

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 9:54 AM, Buzzetta said:

If you do not realize that the operations of Rally Rd lead to the same questions as to the assignment of values I do not know what to tell you.

Countless others have laid out the scams of inflating values and Rally Rd to you in numerous threads.

You are a cheerleader for it and see it as the way of the future.  I am sure you are well invested in it financially if not otherwise.

I have seen things like Rally Rd before.  The last time I sniffed something like it I declined to become involved in it despite overtures from a couple of people that were close to me.  The result?  After watching the feds overturn the life of the brother of one of my close friends, seize everything due to his involvement in that very scam that made headlines, I was proven right. 

I would not have anything to do with Rally Rd concerning any significant amount of money unless it is money that you feel like urinating on and throwing in the trash. 

I have less than 1% of my "play money" (that is, money that has nothing to do with my retirement, money I'm free to spend on Kobe steak and eat, rather than throwing it in the trash) in RallyRd.  I'm a cheerleader for the concept of fractional ownership.  If you want to put $100 into comics, you shouldn't be limited to the options that cost $100 or less.

You should be able to put $100 into ANY comic the way you can put $100 into ANY stock.  You won't own a full company, a full comic, or even a full share (you can invest $100 in Amazon stock and get 0.03 share).  It goes up or down the same as a full share.

What's more, the fractional ownership concept mitigates the losses if there is fraud.  You lose $100, not $100,000 that you mortgaged for WATA Super Mario.

RallyRd probably won't win the day.  The concept of fractional ownership in much larger assets controlled by exchanges and the SEC will absolutely win this century.

Edited August 25, 2021 by valiantman

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 9:59 AM, valiantman said:

RallyRd probably won't win the day.  The concept of fractional ownership in much larger assets controlled by exchanges and the SEC will absolutely win this century.

Timeline 2047...

"Grandpa, why did you spend $100 on this J. Scott Campbell comic variant instead of putting $100 into Action Comics #1?"

"Because you get to HOLD this variant in your hands, child.  Now, stop touching it, or it will be worth less than the $20 it is now."

[Buzzetta]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:59 AM, valiantman said:

I have less than 1% of my "play money" (that is, money that has nothing to do with my retirement) in RallyRd.  I'm a cheerleader for the concept.  If you want to put $100 into comics, you shouldn't be limited to the options that cost $100 or less.

You should be able to put $100 into ANY comic the way you can put $100 into ANY stock.  You won't own a full company, a full comic, or even a full share (you can invest $100 in Amazon stock and get 0.03 share).  It goes up or down the same as a full share.

What's more, the fractional ownership concept mitigates the losses if there is fraud.  You lose $100, not $100,000 that you mortgaged for WATA Super Mario.

RallyRd probably won't win the day.  The concept of fractional ownership in much larger assets controlled by exchanges and the SEC will absolutely win this century.

Until they and the concept get exposed for what I and many others believe that they are doing. 

I believe, (have to throw that word in) based on what I see that it is a scam plain and simple. 

Those that participate are either blindly oblivious to it, choose to ignore it, fools, or orchestrators of it preying off the others.   Like I have said, you are free to do with your money as you wish.  Some people like to throw it away.  Others choose better means. 

 

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:11 AM, Buzzetta said:

Until they and the concept get exposed for what I and many others believe that they are doing. 

I believe, (have to throw that word in) based on what I see that it is a scam plain and simple. 

Those that participate are either blindly oblivious to it, choose to ignore it, fools, or orchestrators of it preying off the others.   Like I have said, you are free to do with your money as you wish.  Some people like to throw it away.  Others choose better means. 

Fair enough.

If I believe (have to throw that word in) that a fire may someday burn a hole in my front lawn, I would be a fool not to stand there with a hose watering it over and over and over, right?

You're free to let your lawn catch on fire, but I prefer a preventative approa... dang it, I got water on the keyboard.

[Buzzetta]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:08 AM, valiantman said:

Timeline 2047...

"Grandpa, why did you spend $100 on this J. Scott Campbell comic variant instead of putting $100 into Action Comics #1?"

"Because you get to HOLD this variant in your hands, child.  Now, stop touching it, or it will be worth less than the $20 it is now."

Nice try but not quite.

Like I said, "blindly oblivious to it, choose to ignore it, fools, or orchestrators of it preying off the others."

Where do you fit in there?

Many of us have outlined the majority of the (possible - again I have to add that word in here) scam to you.

 

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:15 AM, Buzzetta said:

Nice try but not quite.

Like I said, "blindly oblivious to it, choose to ignore it, fools, or orchestrators of it preying off the others."

Where do you fit in there?

Many of us have outlined the majority of the (possible - again I have to add that word in here) scam to you.

 

False dichotomy.  Blindly oblivious to what you believe, choose to ignore what you believe, fools about what you believe, or orchestrator of what you believe preying off the others.

All of these are the same option... people doing what you believe they should, and nothing else.

I don't believe what you believe, therefore, all other options are also available.

[MattTheDuck]

According to Heritage Director of Auctions John Petty, the books were “not purchased, submitted to CGC, or re-consigned by any Heritage employee or by the firm itself.”

Keeping with the company’s policy of not releasing the names of bidders or consignors, Petty told CBG, “A dealer-client bought them, resubmitted them, and got a higher grade and then reconsigned them with us.”

Petty said that the company did not restore the books. “We do not employ anyone to do restoration, nor do we work on books ourselves,” he added. “We do have outside consultants to do restoration checks for us, but there are no restorationists on our payroll at this time nor have there ever been.”

As we noted in the video, there's some language here that, while it could be true, does not necessarily represent the whole truth.  A Director, for example, is not an "employee."  An independent contractor is not an "employee" nor is that firm/person on the "payroll."

Someone who knows how to ask better questions needs to talk with these folks.

Edited August 25, 2021 by MattTheDuck

[Buzzetta]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:19 AM, valiantman said:

False dichotomy.  Blindly oblivious to what you believe, choose to ignore what you believe, fools about what you believe, or orchestrator of what you believe preying off the others.

All of these are the same option... people doing what you believe they should, and nothing else.

I don't believe what you believe, therefore, all other options are also available.

So we can rule out "orchestrators of it preying off the others."

Again, many of us see the exploits and scams arising out of it a mile away. 

TTYL almost lunch time and I have people leaving now after completing a job here. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Buzzetta

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:10 AM, Taylor G said:

I'm so old, I remember when the idea of stock ownership was to invest in a company.  With a product.  And that company is able to produce that product because you invested in it.  And if people bought that product, you made a return on that investment.

I had no idea it now means betting on how long boomer nostalgia can inflate the already inflated value of pop memorabilia.

The moment the value of the pop memorabilia drops to zero, you can either lose 100% now or you could lose 0.01%, if the fractional market existed.

All investments are bets with a timeline in mind.  "Until death" and "until next year" bets work the same for a company manufacturing a product as they do for boomer nostalgia.

In 1990, my friend's son was 4 years old and all he wanted to talk about was "Teena-Moo-Ninja-Turtles".  If I had bet on his nostalgia for a few thousand in 1990, I'd have millions of dollars in books today, and he won't be a boomer himself for another 20 years.

Edited August 25, 2021 by valiantman

[Bronty]

On 8/25/2021 at 12:15 PM, valiantman said:

The moment the value of the pop memorabilia drops to zero, you can either lose 100% now or you could lose 0.01%, if the fractional market existed.

All investments are bets with a timeline in mind.  "Until death" and "until next year" bets work the same for a company manufacturing a product as they do for boomer nostalgia.

In 1990, my friend's son was 4 years old and all he wanted to talk about was "Teena-Moo-Ninja-Turtles".  If I had bet on his nostalgia for a few thousand in 1990, I'd have millions of dollars in books today, and he won't be a boomer himself for another 20 years.

Yeah, TMNT 1 is a good example.   9.8s were 20k just a very short time ago.   And now they are 250k?  SCAM!   SCAM!    FRAUD!  DECEPTION!!     

The obvious take away for anyone looking at rising prices in today's collectible markets should be that 80s and 90s material is very hot in general, and that this time frame is when interest starts to splinter off from comics into other things like games and MTG and pokemon and whatever else, because 90s kids, post the decline of the comics industry, were into other things.   Those other things are now hot.

It really doesn't take a genius.   We've been talking about this effect on the boards for a very long time.

Is there speculation in the game market?  Sure.  Also in comics, real estate, the stock market and almost any other market you care to name.

The video grasps at straws, and its incorrect literally 5-10 seconds in.    30k was not a record of any kind for a game sale in 2017.    And when your video starts off with a glaring mistake that any modest amount of research would have uncovered, you know its not going to get any better from there.

This half baked video is, I would guess, simply an attempt to get attention.   Twitter content, more followers, clicks, whatever.   Either that or he's just salty.    "Gamers" like Karl have been mad about "collector" prices since the very early days.    Guys like that would cry foul in 2002 (when things were incredibly cheap) that collectors took copies out of the marketplace for "real gamers."    That self serving BS, the idea that you're only entitled to appreciate a game if you can beat it in 20 minutes like Karl can, is definitely still alive.   

Look around guys.    I love comics, but comics haven't been read by the masses since about 1994, and nothing lasts forever.   We are 27 years out from 1994.      Is it really shocking that people are hobbying elsewhere?    20 years from now, when all of today's 55 year old comic collectors are 75, what's the health of the market look like then?    Who will be left to care about anything other than the most desirable comics?      Comics, as a hobby, have eroding demographics and in 20 years those demographics will be similar to stamp and coin demographics.    Games, pokemon, etc have better demographics.      You shouldn't be surprised to see pokemon cards and desirable games gaining strongly against most comics/coins/stamps.     

 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Bronty