The story of a promise made during the Korean War 9 9

[sfcityduck]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:09 AM, mwotka said:

I really hope the family is seeing most of this money.  

I suspect that is the case, but who knows?  My only concrete thought on the family getting money is this: 

If the Promise Collection was assembled by Roger, I can't help feeling that he'd be pleased that Bob's preservation of those comics ultimately benefitted the family.  It's a tangible family legacy that I'm sure would have made Roger and Bob proud.  Bob's broader and more public legacy of elevating the profile of Korean War POW/MIA issues is Bob's much more important public legacy.  But, while Bob's work undoubtedly benefitted POW/MIA activism for subsequent wars, it is sad to say that in all likelihood the last of the Korean War POW/MIAs are probably dead (they would be in their 90s now - a highly unlikely life expectancy for someone in their circumstances). Bob kept the faith until his death, and as a result his family is rewarded with a tangible economic legacy - something I think any family patriarch would appreciate.  To me that is Karma working at its finest.  An epic good deed is being rewarded.  I can't fault the family for concluding that selling the comics was appropriate at this time.  

[sfcityduck]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:25 AM, telerites said:

A stretch but Armand means Army Man/Soldier (may be used that while he was in basic is related to the meaning - like I said a stretch)

French Baby Names Meaning:
In French Baby Names the meaning of the name Armand is: meaning soldier, or warrior.

German Baby Names Meaning:
In German Baby Names the meaning of the name Armand is: Army man; soldier. Famous Bearer: romantic actor Armand Assante.

Polish Baby Names Meaning:
In Polish Baby Names the meaning of the name Armand is: Soldier.

American Baby Names Meaning:
In American Baby Names the meaning of the name Armand is: Army man; soldier. 

Fascinating!  There's a WWII tank in the town square where the Dumas brothers grew up.  Bob recalled in one media piece I reviewed that he remembered Roger playing soldier on that tank after school. I think he referenced Roger's desire to become a soldier.  So maybe you're right and that is how Roger thought of himself at the time "Armand" was written on the comics.  Assuming, of course, my speculation that the Dumas brothers are responsible for the Promise Collection is correct.

Edited February 16, 2022 by sfcityduck

[buttock]

Appreciate the research, but I disagree that Heritage owes you or anyone else anything at all other than what they owe to their consignors, which is the privacy they've asked for.  How you can justify that they need to breach that just for your sense of satisfaction with a comic book you own is beyond me.  

[SteveDuin]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:48 AM, buttock said:

Appreciate the research, but I disagree that Heritage owes you or anyone else anything at all other than what they owe to their consignors, which is the privacy they've asked for.  How you can justify that they need to breach that just for your sense of satisfaction with a comic book you own is beyond me.  

Appreciate the outrage - perhaps the consignors did request privacy - but I think @sfcityduck is only noting the irony of Heritage burying a story that Bob devoted his life to publicizing.

Edited February 16, 2022 by SteveDuin

[MrBedrock]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:03 PM, SteveDuin said:

Appreciate the outrage 

Do you really?

[jimjum12]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:48 PM, buttock said:

Appreciate the research, but I disagree that Heritage owes you or anyone else anything at all other than what they owe to their consignors, which is the privacy they've asked for.  How you can justify that they need to breach that just for your sense of satisfaction with a comic book you own is beyond me.  

My feelings as well. In the same way that many States now allow winners of lotteries to maintain their privacy, desiring that same anonymity in this case is just smart. The Family doesn't owe any of us anything, beyond the books that we purchased. The research is compelling and admirable, but blasting it out on a public message board that has already attracted many less than honorable people, is in poor taste where I come from. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Edited February 16, 2022 by jimjum12

[BS Damutantman]

Incredible write up. Certainly this story is more compelling than Heritage's version.

I can see why the family might want anonymity, despite Bob's efforts to publicize his cause:

1. They might have received/are receiving a large sum of money for the collection, and many people would want to keep that information private.
2. Maybe the surviving family feels a little guilt about selling the collection. Bob dedicated his life to the belief that he would see his brother again, which is in a small way represented by his preservation of Roger's comic books. Selling that collection now that Bob's gone is almost like giving up on everything Bob spent his life believing. I'm not saying I see it that way, personally, but I can easily see how Bob's family might see it that way, considering how important this was to him.

I do believe the family requested this anonymity, and that it should be respected, if this is the real story. I can't see Heritage NOT wanting to capitalize on the historical significance voluntarily otherwise.

[MrBedrock]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:03 PM, SteveDuin said:

 - but I think @sfcityduck is only noting the irony of Heritage burying a story that Bob devoted his life to publicizing.

He has gone a little further than just "noting the irony". His research and the resulting assumptions are very intriguing. But he has repeatedly used them both as a call for Heritage to verify the facts. Heritage really has no responsibility to do so.

[jimjum12]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:20 PM, MrBedrock said:

Heritage really has no responsibility to do so.

... and they may actually have a legal responsibility not to. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[buttock]

On 2/16/2022 at 11:03 AM, SteveDuin said:

Appreciate the outrage - perhaps the consignors did request privacy - but I think @sfcityduck is only noting the irony of Heritage burying a story that Bob devoted his life to publicizing.

1) the consignors DID request privacy.

2) that's a huge stretch to compare a guy spending his life searching for his POW brother and hoping he's alive to telling a story to sell a comic collection.  And we're not even sure this is the same guy.  And if it is the same guy, it's not even him that has requested privacy, rather it's his heirs.   

[MrBedrock]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:57 PM, buttock said:

1) the consignors DID request privacy.

2) that's a huge stretch to compare a guy spending his life searching for his POW brother and hoping he's alive to telling a story to sell a comic collection.  And we're not even sure this is the same guy.  And if it is the same guy, it's not even him that has requested privacy, rather it's his heirs.   

This post needs more outrage. 

[MrBedrock]

If this story is true and Roger is the person who originally accumulated the books then what would happen if ... and this is obviously a big if ... he were still alive? What if he was a POW who was left behind and left for dead, decided to assimilate into North Korean life, is now in his early nineties, and were to somehow hear now about his collection going for incredible money? Maybe that is why the heirs wanted to keep it secret...so Roger wouldn't find out about it!

Edited February 16, 2022 by MrBedrock

[sfcityduck]

On 2/16/2022 at 10:20 AM, MrBedrock said:

His research and the resulting assumptions are very intriguing. But he has repeatedly used them both as a call for Heritage to verify the facts. Heritage really has no responsibility to do so.

Just saw your post.  I appreciate that you find my "research and resulting assumptions are very intriguing."  No irony intended.  I honestly take that as praise.  I'd rather see this thread focus on that research and on the incredible history of the Dumas brothers (unless it turns out I'm wrong) then the tabloid material that some posters want to now debate.  

To that end, let me clarify:  All I desire is for Heritage to advise me if the Dumas brothers are NOT the brothers who compiled and preserved the Promise Collection.  Nothing would prevent them from doing so, and there are many good reasons why they should do that.

[Silver]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:32 PM, MrBedrock said:

If this story is true and Roger is the person who originally accumulated the books then what would happen if ... and this is obviously a big if ... he were still alive? What if he was a POW who was left behind and left for dead, decided to assimilate into North Korean life, is now in his early nineties, and were to somehow hear now about his collection going for incredible money? Maybe that is why the heirs wanted to keep it secret...so Roger wouldn't find out about it!

In that case he may have other heirs...

[Robot Man]

This story is beginning to remind me more and more like the “Riley” San Francisco collection with the story that Beerbohm came up with.

But both collections of books are jaw dropping in spite of the story.

And like like in the case of the Okajimas, war is a very compelling and sad story. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Robot Man

[Jayman]

On 2/16/2022 at 6:15 PM, sfcityduck said:

To that end, let me clarify:  All I desire is for Heritage to advise me if the Dumas brothers are NOT the brothers who compiled and preserved the Promise Collection.  Nothing would prevent them from doing so, and there are many good reasons why they should do that.

If they are entrusted to keep the family’s anonymity, Heritage would likely say they are not even if you guessed correctly. 

Great research nonetheless!

[sfcityduck]

On 2/16/2022 at 12:32 PM, MrBedrock said:

If this story is true and Roger is the person who originally accumulated the books then what would happen if ... and this is obviously a big if ... he were still alive? What if he was a POW who was left behind and left for dead, decided to assimilate into North Korean life, is now in his early nineties, and were to somehow hear now about his collection going for incredible money? Maybe that is why the heirs wanted to keep it secret...so Roger wouldn't find out about it!

The hypothetical you put forth would make a great law school final exam!  The analysis required to answer your question would be very very complex - potentially turning on, at least, wills & trusts law, intestate succession statutes, gift law, laws relating to abandoning American citizenship, the Hague Convention, and even laws regarding sedition and treason and national security.  But its just a hypothetical, so no need to attempt to resolve it here.

However, I do like your hypothetical because it touches on the truth that there are documented cases of U.S. Soldiers who defected to North Korea and voluntarily lived there for decades - until they died.  No reason that I know of to believe Roger was one of them.  The presence of those defectors in North Korea complicated the search for evidence of U.S. POWs.  The U.S. government argued at times that all claimed sightings of U.S. POWs still alive and held in North Korea were really just sightings of known defectors. Fascinating subject.  Like an onion, lots of layers to peel back in the history surrounding of U.S. POWs in North Korea.

 

 

 

[sfcityduck]

On 2/16/2022 at 4:53 PM, Robot Man said:

And like like in the case of the Okajimas, war is a very compelling and sad story. 

Bob, you make a really apt comparison. The Okajima pedigree has opened the eyes of comic collectors to the little known history of the Japanese internment.  The Promise Collection could open the eyes of comic collectors to the little known history of Korean War MIA/POWs if Bob and Roger are the Promise Collection brothers.  That's important history that should be shared. That history is everything in the story of Bob and Roger Dumas. If the Promise Collection is tied to Bob and Roger, it is a story worth telling.

[sfcityduck]

Here's a good news article from 1992 on Bob and Roger Dumas for those interested:

 

[Knightsofold]

Thanks for the great research!