The story of a promise made during the Korean War 9 9

[path4play]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:33 AM, sfcityduck said:

Frankly, I have to disagree.  To me, pedigrees fall into the following categories:

(1) Collections for which there are absolutely no real backstory or all, other than that the collection is a really nice collection of OO comics that made its way to a dealer (e.g. Central Valley)..  

(2) Collections for which there is an unimportant backstory, just information on where the comics came from (e.g. Billy Wright) but nothing particularly special about that backstory.

(3) Collection for which the backstory of the collection is not as important as the impact of the collection to comic history (e.g. Mile High, Cosmic Aeroplane).

(4) Collection which an important association to the comic industry or with someone famous in comic circles which adds value and interest to the collection (e.g. Gaines, Thompson, Rosa, Crowley).

(5) Collections which have a backstory that touches important American history and which, as a result, have value added which derives from the comic collecting communities' passion for history (and obviously nostalgia) resulting in multiplied values for comics even in lesser grades because of the story.

For this last category of pedigree, as Heritage and CGC are well aware, it is the story which makes the pedigree.  The classic example is Okajima.  And the Promise Collection is being marketed as a new Okajima quality pedigree.  So I think that Heritage and CGC do have a responsibility to get the story right.  On the Youtube interview aired on Tales From the Flipside Ep. 180 in July 2021, the consignment director of Heritage and the President of CGC said this about the Promise Collection while being interviewed by Deno the host::

Let me start by saying Sfcityduck, you are one of the boardies I most admire. Its a good categorization.  But we can slice and dice pedigrees into types many ways.  I do disagree with qualifying a persons history or background (aka #2 - as unimportant backstory).  This gets into why I always ask myself 'why are all the movies focused on the kings, queens and knights - what about the serfs that lived around the castle?'  Same could be said for the slaves building the pyramids in Egypt?  They never get to be the focus of their own movies (except one big exception in the later example lol)?  There are some Joe Schmoes who had a Sups #1 and Tech #27, but we don't even know the poor persons name  - and due to the draft they most likely served.  There were surely also great and important collectors with a other types of interesting stories (hiding comics as insulation in walls or stamping them with rockets). 

Its perhaps a matter of degree that one wants to take the nice and natural incidental touch point/ intersections between pulp culture Americana and historic American events - there were many. many comic book readers, and they all lived through historic events. 

Anyway, my main point is was a chance to use the 'Streisand effect' in a sentence. 

 

   

[path4play]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:50 AM, sfcityduck said:

Again I have to disagree.  Comic collecting really began as soon as comic books started being published.  Collecting WAS a "thing" back then - for a variety of things such as coins, books, etc.  It was inevitable that once comics started being published there would be people who would save comics for a motivation other than OCD hoarding, and that's largely what happened..  The interesting question is what motivated their collecting?  And did they ever go beyond that collecting into the realm of becoming actual fans?  

That's a topic I addressed in this thread you might enjoy, if you haven't seen it:

Dave Wigransky, the subject of the above thread, collected comics because he had the exact same passion for comic art and history and entertainment that we modern collectors due.  

Edgar Church and the compiler of the Cosmic Aeroplane pedigree collected comics because he used them as art references.

Gaines and Crowley put aside comics to have a record of their work.

Multiple pedigrees were likely compiled by speculators, who set aside the number 1 issues of publications in the hope that they would someday be valuable (e.g. Windy City).

I could go on. But while I truly do agree that I find the history of some pedigrees as depressing as you do (they add no value to me), that is definitely NOT the case with a pedigree like Okajima!  The Okajima pedigree is both (1) a symbol of a very sad chapter in our history when American citizens like that OO were evicted from their homes, forced into internment camps with only the possessions they could carry, and forced to endure harsh conditions for years and (2) powerful evidence that the American citizens who were the victims of that conduct were just like you and me, Americans who loved comic books so much that they chose to cherish and preserve them throughout a very trying time in their lives.  Which is why lesser graded Okajima's still sell for multiples over equivalent and better graded copies.

The stories do matter.  Heritage knows it, CGC knows it, and when they tell them I think they should feel obliged to make sure the proper story is getting out to the comic collecting community.  

 

And don't forget stamps.  No honorable mention for the massive stamp collector that was drafted?

Anyway, great work on the Dave Wigransky story by the way.  I really enjoy that thread - amazing research.

[path4play]

On 2/21/2022 at 12:10 PM, sfcityduck said:

As a collector of art by arguably the most import Japanese-American artist, Chiura Obata, including internment camp art, I have a different perspective on that due to my interest in that area.  50 Objects is a really great site.  It is devoted to illustrating the injustice of the internment during WWII, and I have enjoyed and highly recommend the site.  However, the site is run by activists.  And as far as I can tell, the delay in the publishing of the Okajima story appears to be because they have been focusing their attention, as activists, on a controversy that erupted over the Topaz Internment Camp national monument site which is extremely important to them.  I have been looking forward to reading their Okajima piece, but it's been "coming soon" for many months.  I suspect the delay is not due to a furious researching of that story, but the other things they are involved in. 

Why different?  They have repeatedly shown to be terrific researchers and historians that go deep into the story.  I trust they will have the most thorough and complete history of that pedigree ever told.  

Edited February 21, 2022 by path4play

[sfcityduck]

On 2/21/2022 at 9:17 AM, path4play said:

And don't forget stamps.  No honorable mention for the massive stamp collector that was drafted?

 

You make a good point about history being about ordinary people too.  The best way I've learned that history is from talking to my parents and grandparents and other relatives about our own family history and looking at the old photos and items that have been saved over the years (including, great for me, my Dad's collection of 40s and 50s comics he gave me when I started collecting in the late 70s). 

But, some stories do stand out.  And the story of Bob and Roger Dumas is unique and remarkable.   

[sfcityduck]

On 2/21/2022 at 9:21 AM, path4play said:

Why different?  They have repeatedly shown to be terrific researchers and historians that go deep into the story.  I trust they will have the most through and complete history of that pedigree ever told.  

Don't get me wrong.  I think they are fantastic writers who make the most of what they've got.  Again, I highly recommend their site.  I'm not sure the bar has been set all that high on the Okajima story though.  The best telling of that story so far has probably been in posts on this site.  I would be surprised if they did not have new information.  I'm curious to see what it will be.  I'm just not optimistic that will be soon as the delay has been so long and I know they have been focused on other events very important to internment activists.

[path4play]

On 2/21/2022 at 12:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

You make a good point about history being about ordinary people too.  The best way I've learned that history is from talking to my parents and grandparents and other relatives about our own family history and looking at the old photos and items that have been saved over the years (including, great for me, my Dad's collection of 40s and 50s comics he gave me when I started collecting in the late 70s). 

But, some stories do stand out.  And the story of Bob and Roger Dumas is unique and remarkable.   

Fair enough.  You and me have that in common - my pops collected too.  I read all his Jo-Jos, Straight Arrows and Dell westerns, funny animals and Tarzans in the 70's.  Started collecting my own .25 center Marvels with paper route funds at the drug store.  I was too stupid though, and sold them off, and shipped myself off to college.  My whole collecting endeavor the past 12 years has been an attempt to re-coup that - probably doesn't take a psychologist to parse out how that formed my position on pedigrees.  

Edited February 21, 2022 by path4play

[Bookery]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:50 AM, sfcityduck said:

Edgar Church and the compiler of the Cosmic Aeroplane pedigree collected comics because he used them as art references.

Not to take away from your larger points, but just wanted to add a thought on the Church collection.  I've always been rather skeptical of the "art reference" story about this.  Oh, I've no doubt that's why he originally began picking them up.  But if you use something as a reference... you use it.  That's why Marvel bullpen file copies are often in rough shape.  It's clear the Church copies, once stacked into their piles, were never looked at again, assuming they were perused even once.  I suspect it began as a "hey, I'll use these for reference in my own art", to eventually, I've got all these, now I must keep obtaining them.  Again, it would appear (though we can't know) that the owner got very little joy from them other than satisfying the need to amass them (specifically when knowing there were at one point thousands of other pulps and magazines that required dumpsters to clear out).  

On a side note, a couple of years ago an old woman passed away who lived in a house just a hundred yards from my shop.  I remember seeing her occasionally walk down the street, often with a newspaper or magazine in her hands from the nearby news outlet..  The home was a typical 1920s era two-story, decent size, with front porch and attic.  Apparently, the whole place was filled floor to ceiling with decades of those newspapers and magazines.  At some point before she died a neighbor cleared a path to the kitchen for her, because she had walled it off.  The upstairs was impassable, and apparently the roof had been leaking for years, but nobody knew it as there was no way to get up the stairs.  She died sitting in a rocking chair by the front door, because it was the only living space she had left (all other rooms were unusable). 

[adamstrange]

On 2/21/2022 at 1:06 PM, Bookery said:

But if you use something as a reference... you use it. 

If you buy things because you might use them, you don't always get around to using them.

Ever known someone who collected tools because someday...

 

[MasterChief]

On 2/15/2022 at 4:16 PM, sfcityduck said:

Bob once stated that Roger enlisted in the military before he turned 18.  To do so, Bob recalls that Roger needed his mother's signature.  Roger Dumas was born on July 21, 1931.  He would have turned 18 on July 21, 1949.  He likely would have completed High School at the end of May of 1949.  Consequently, it may well be that Roger enlisted at the end of May.  If Roger is "Junie," Roger would have been in basic training for June through August (in 1949, basic training lasted 14 weeks) - the same time period in which the "Armand" name appears on the comics.

Got a little bit of time yesterday to do more reading. Came across a piece that stated Roger first joined the National Guard (with mom's reluctant permission) then transferred into the Army. It also mentioned that it was Robert "who followed his brother into the Army and Korea to keep an eye on him", which, as you've presented, conflicts with the Heritage tale.

Also, picked through the collection more and came across two books with marks I'd missed. Each with the apparent quick-whip underscore. Thoughts are welcomed...

Oh, one more brainwave. Read a very interesting piece by the lawyer who represented Robert Dumas during his lawsuit with the Federal Government in the 80s. He goes into detail about witness testimony during the trail. In particular, the story of using maggots to treat Roger's side wound at Camp 5. Anyway, I found it admirable that he represented Robert "pro bono."

 

 

[sfcityduck]

On 2/21/2022 at 10:32 AM, MasterChief said:

Got a little bit of time yesterday to do more reading. Came across a piece that stated Roger first joined the National Guard (with mom's reluctant permission) then transferred into the Army. It also mentioned that it was Robert "who followed his brother into the Army and Korea to keep an eye on him", which, as you've presented, conflicts with the Heritage tale.

Also, picked through the collection more and came across two books with marks I'd missed. Each with the apparent quick-whip underscore. Thoughts are welcomed...

Oh, one more brainwave. Read a very interesting piece by the lawyer who represented Robert Dumas during his lawsuit with the Federal Government in the 80s. He goes into detail about witness testimony during the trail. In particular, the story of using maggots to treat Roger's side wound at Camp 5. Anyway, I found it admirable that he represented Robert "pro bono."

 

I have seen the story of Roger's entry into the military several different ways.  All agree on that it was before he was 18 (which he required a parent's signature and his mom signed).  All agree that Roger went into the military before Bob (but after his older brothers).  The National Guard story is not usually included.  My assumption is that joining the National Guard would not have impacted the way he collected comics as he was probably living at home.  I have not yet been able to confirm Roger and Bob's enlistment info.  As I've said the media reports, and Bob's tellings, can differ or even contradict one another.  There is an understandable amount of ambiguity.

That newly listed Action 132 could say "Ray", "Roy", or "Rog."  Make of that what you will.  Obviously, "Rog" would be consistent with my theory, "Ray" and "Roy" would not.  It predates the "Armand" books by a few months.  There are more "Armand" books in the new listings.

I saw that Exposed 7 and I can't figure out what that says.  That first letter could be a D, but that could be wrong.  Might say "Dial" or "Deal" or that last letter might be a "b" or a "t", just can't read that one.  Your thoughts?

I'm not getting overly hung up on the utility of the one-off names on the cover because there could be explanations consistent with my theory that are lost to the sands of time (friends OO traded with, etc.).  The sheer volume of the "Armand" books makes them the key clue I think.

Edited February 21, 2022 by sfcityduck

[MrBedrock]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:07 PM, sfcityduck said:

On 2/20/2022 at 8:38 PM, MrBedrock said:

A question for sfcityduck... Considering the amount of information you have accumulated why are you so adamant that Heritage verify your theory? Why can't you just go to any one of the surviving Dumas family members and get verification? 

As a customer of Heritage and CGC whose has purchased a raw Promise book that will soon be winging its way to be encapsulated, I figure they might feel a greater obligation to say something than the family does.  After all, they are the ones telling the story used to market the books and certify it as a pedigree to collectors like me.

If I were a reporter, the course of action you recommend would make perfect sense.  But, I'm just a collector posting on a message board (which I know Heritage and CGC reps read) for a small audience of his fellow interested collectors.  This isn't my vocation, its just my hobby. But, maybe you have a point that someone will need to reach out to the family if Heritage and CGC don't want to address it.  

Basically the "no good deed goes unpunished" approach. Heritage has done such a good job of doing what they are being paid to do - marketing consignments so that the consignors can realize the best return on their choice of sales venue - that you feel Heritage should now out the consignor (possibly even against the consignor's wishes), even though you already have a pretty good idea of who that consignor is.

And yes, I am being a little bit judgmental here. If we are going to talk about the OCD that contributes to the reasons some of these collections exist then we also need to address the OCD that drives the pursuit of the informational minutia surrounding them after they are discovered.

[path4play]

On 2/21/2022 at 2:19 PM, MrBedrock said:

Basically the "no good deed goes unpunished" approach. Heritage has done such a good job of doing what they are being paid to do - marketing consignments so that the consignors can realize the best return on their choice of sales venue - that you feel Heritage should now out the consignor (possibly even against the consignor's wishes), even though you already have a pretty good idea of who that consignor is.

And yes, I am being a little bit judgmental here. If we are going to talk about the OCD that contributes to the reasons some of these collections exist then we also need to address the OCD that drives the pursuit of the informational minutia surrounding them after they are discovered.

"Veni; vidi; vici"

I came to the newstand, I saw what I wanted, and I used all of my rich grandma's dimes to clean the shelf every week. 

That kid on the block everyone wanted as a buddy, except he won't loan me any books to read or even let me touch them - just crack the closet door and let me peak in lol! 

What we need is Elvis's collection of his entire run of Captain Marvel Jr.'s that he neatly signed, then quickly stored away unread in a cool, dry place and kept all in perfect 9.0 condition or better to surface to revive the Fawcett market.  

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by path4play

[JollyComics]

On 2/17/2022 at 8:02 PM, sfcityduck said:

Again you have sharper eyes than me!  I didn't see that book either.  Very impressive!

That Action 141 clearly says "STANGE."  Stange is a last name.  A quick search reveals there were some Stange families in the area where the Dumas family lived.  I have no reason to think they had any tie to the Dumas family.  So this might cut against my theory.

The way that name is written really puzzles me.  All of the "Armands"  written on Promise Collection books are done in cursive (often a messy cursive).  Cursive was taught early, especially for signatures.  So I'm a bit surprised to see a very neat and well-written, almost stylized (like an architect's writing), all caps block print name.  It seems like a mature hand, but it is not only printed -- it is all caps block printed.  Just seems weird. It's also written with what I think is a heavier hand than the "Armand" cursive words.  I can't explain that one. 

If I were a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I'd note that book was sold a week or so ago, and wonder if the signature was added recently to throw people off from the "Armand" names.  But, I definitely am not a conspiracy theorist!  That was not a serious suggestion!  My best guess is that maybe the OO had a friend with the last name Stange.  It is a complete mystery to me.  I can't explain it.

Again, if I'm leading people astray, I hope Heritage tells me.

I believe their mother wrote on the books. My mother had an old habit to write everything on my personal things like lunch boxes, Thermos bottles, my gloves, hats and all others so those didn’t go missing or lost. I found my things in the lost and found boxes at schools that saved me from trouble. So I believe those neat cursive signatures on the books by their mother so no one else took them away from their property.

Edited February 21, 2022 by JollyComics

[sfcityduck]

On 2/21/2022 at 11:19 AM, MrBedrock said:

Basically the "no good deed goes unpunished" approach. Heritage has done such a good job of doing what they are being paid to do - marketing consignments so that the consignors can realize the best return on their choice of sales venue - that you feel Heritage should now out the consignor (possibly even against the consignor's wishes), even though you already have a pretty good idea of who that consignor is.

And yes, I am being a little bit judgmental here. If we are going to talk about the OCD that contributes to the reasons some of these collections exist then we also need to address the OCD that drives the pursuit of the informational minutia surrounding them after they are discovered.

If the right answer is the theory is off-base, then no "outing" is required. 

To be clear: I would not expect Heritage to "out the consignor against the consignor's wishes," especially if their hands are tied.  I would expect Heritage to be in a better position to contact the consignor than me (which was your prior suggestion) to see if the consignor wants to admit or deny my theory or maybe even present, on their own terms with their own family information at their own time, a fuller story.  So don't construe my posts as a demand for punishment of Heritage.  I am making a plea, not firing up the torches and pitchforks.  I just want to try to make sure the history is clear.  I may fail at that.

I take it from your comment that "you already have a pretty good idea of who that consignor is" and your prior comments that you agree with the theory.  If the theory is correct, there's no way Heritage gets "punished" by anyone anyways.  As I said early on, the Bob and Roger story would add value to the collection.  And it was inevitable that the full story would come out someday.  

But, I'll tell you what, since my posts are causing some confusion, there is no need for further pleas by me to Heritage and CGC.  I'll desist.

I'm happy to discuss "the OCD that drives the pursuit of the informational minutia surrounding them [pedigrees] after they are discovered."  The answer is simple, the stories add value.  And as a collector and dealer, I'm sure you (1) want to accurately know what you can about the comics you own and sell which could add value in the eyes of buyers and (2) you want to make sure that the stories told to you by other collectors or dealers which you think add value to comics you are buying are true.  Pretty simple concept:  Sellers should strive to tell accurate stories and buyers are entitled to figure out if the stories told them are accurate.

[path4play]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:07 PM, sfcityduck said:

If the right answer is the theory is off-base, then no "outing" is required. 

To be clear: I would not expect Heritage to "out the consignor against the consignor's wishes," especially if their hands are tied.  I would expect Heritage to be in a better position to contact the consignor than me (which was your prior suggestion) to see if the consignor wants to admit or deny my theory or maybe even present, on their own terms with their own family information at their own time, a fuller story.  So don't construe my posts as a demand for punishment of Heritage.  I am making a plea, not firing up the torches and pitchforks.  I just want to try to make sure the history is clear.  I may fail at that.

I take it from your comment that "you already have a pretty good idea of who that consignor is" and your prior comments that you agree with the theory.  If the theory is correct, there's no way Heritage gets "punished" by anyone anyways.  As I said early on, the Bob and Roger story would add value to the collection.  And it was inevitable that the full story would come out someday.  

But, I'll tell you what, since my posts are causing some confusion, there is no need for further pleas by me to Heritage and CGC.  I'll desist.

I'm happy to discuss "the OCD that drives the pursuit of the informational minutia surrounding them [pedigrees] after they are discovered."  The answer is simple, the stories add value.  And as a collector and dealer, I'm sure you (1) want to accurately know what you can about the comics you own and sell which could add value in the eyes of buyers and (2) you want to make sure that the stories told to you by other collectors or dealers which you think add value to comics you are buying are true.  Pretty simple concept:  Sellers should strive to tell accurate stories and buyers are entitled to figure out if the stories told them are accurate.

I think what is being attempted to be conveyed is that the owners may not want to "admit or deny any theories" regarding their sale of [stamps, train set, matchbox cars, insert other here], nor do they perhaps even realize collectors of said [stamps, train set, matchbox cars, insert other here] would even care to know accuracies of mundane details like who signed which copy when and why (assuming any survivors even know).  Maybe there is a family member who would find it equally interesting as said collectors of [stamps, train set, matchbox cars, insert other here], where as a dozen other family members don't want the ensuing phone calls, emails, Post and Times reporters, stares of neighbors etc., and consider the sales prices on Heritage as the "value" of what must already seem like a crazy amount of money to be paid for old paper by bunch of really rich folk - and don't see the need to add any more value? 

Edited February 21, 2022 by path4play

[Bookery]

On 2/21/2022 at 2:19 PM, MrBedrock said:

And yes, I am being a little bit judgmental here. If we are going to talk about the OCD that contributes to the reasons some of these collections exist then we also need to address the OCD that drives the pursuit of the informational minutia surrounding them after they are discovered.

Again, though... this is a unique situation.  People didn't pay premiums for the Church collection because the story of an advertising artist setting aside reference materials enthralled them.  The books sold themselves because of what they were.  But a number of Promise books (especially in grades like 8.0) have sold for 2x, 3x, even 10x what similarly-graded books are selling for.  And this is because of a story that was heavily hyped, but also intentionally left mysterious.  It is also the only emotionally-charged name given to a collection (will the Love-Triangle, Mother's Dying Wish, Kept for Spite, or Best Buddies for Life collections be forthcoming?).  If the consignors wanted permanent anonymity, then the collection should not have had any back-story and have just been named the 2020 Pedigree, or the "Wowza!" Books, or the Pandemic Collection, etc.  This is sort of like Hollywood celebrities who hire publicity agents to hype their careers for years in order to raise their casting salaries, but then cry foul when they get attention they don't want.

Frankly, I personally don't understand paying a premium for a pedigree story beyond its grade-value anyway (unless one would surface with specific comic-legacy provenance... such as if Matt Baker had a a newly-discovered stash of high-grade comics, or it was discovered that Frederick Wertham had a horror collection that he secretly loved and protected despite all of his public protestations).  With some pedigree stories, can we even know if the tales are true?  If you can double the value of a collection just by putting together a vague inspiring paragraph about it, if it hasn't been done already, someone certainly will attempt it sometime in the future.  

As you can tell, it doesn't really matter to me, as I'm not a pedigree-specific fan anyway.  But... as someone who has spent a good bit of his life trying to fill-in information gaps through research, I do sympathize with those who are seeking such information, especially given the promotion given this specific collection.

[path4play]

On 2/21/2022 at 4:21 PM, Bookery said:

Again, though... this is a unique situation.  People didn't pay premiums for the Church collection because the story of an advertising artist setting aside reference materials enthralled them.  The books sold themselves because of what they were.  But a number of Promise books (especially in grades like 8.0) have sold for 2x, 3x, even 10x what similarly-graded books are selling for.  And this is because of a story that was heavily hyped, but also intentionally left mysterious.  It is also the only emotionally-charged name given to a collection (will the Love-Triangle, Mother's Dying Wish, Kept for Spite, or Best Buddies for Life collections be forthcoming?).  If the consignors wanted permanent anonymity, then the collection should not have had any back-story and have just been named the 2020 Pedigree, or the "Wowza!" Books, or the Pandemic Collection, etc.  This is sort of like Hollywood celebrities who hire publicity agents to hype their careers for years in order to raise their casting salaries, but then cry foul when they get attention they don't want.

Frankly, I personally don't understand paying a premium for a pedigree story beyond its grade-value anyway (unless one would surface with specific comic-legacy provenance... such as if Matt Baker had a a newly-discovered stash of high-grade comics, or it was discovered that Frederick Wertham had a horror collection that he secretly loved and protected despite all of his public protestations).  With some pedigree stories, can we even know if the tales are true?  If you can double the value of a collection just by putting together a vague inspiring paragraph about it, if it hasn't been done already, someone certainly will attempt it sometime in the future.  

As you can tell, it doesn't really matter to me, as I'm not a pedigree-specific fan anyway.  But... as someone who has spent a good bit of his life trying to fill-in information gaps through research, I do sympathize with those who are seeking such information, especially given the promotion given this specific collection.

I paid 3x guide for 7 ungraded copies and 2 graded of Police Comics (which typically sell for under guide) without anymore information - but would like to know exactly how several got water stains.  Its always been buyer beware.

Edited February 21, 2022 by path4play

[MrBedrock]

On 2/21/2022 at 2:07 PM, sfcityduck said:

I'm happy to discuss "the OCD that drives the pursuit of the informational minutia surrounding them [pedigrees] after they are discovered."  The answer is simple, the stories add value.  And as a collector and dealer, I'm sure you (1) want to accurately know what you can about the comics you own and sell which could add value in the eyes of buyers and (2) you want to make sure that the stories told to you by other collectors or dealers which you think add value to comics you are buying are true.  Pretty simple concept:  Sellers should strive to tell accurate stories and buyers are entitled to figure out if the stories told them are accurate.

I don't think I have been much a story teller in regards to the comics I have sold, other than trying to accurately report the grade. I am usually pretty vague about where I've acquired stuff.

[D84]

I usually make up stories involving hookers and blow.

[MrBedrock]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:21 PM, Bookery said:

But a number of Promise books (especially in grades like 8.0) have sold for 2x, 3x, even 10x what similarly-graded books are selling for.  And this is because of a story that was heavily hyped, but also intentionally left mysterious.

Sorry to distill your post down to this simple statement, but I think it is the crux of the issue. These two sentences cannot be proven to be true, and further my personal opinion is that equating them is actually completely false. Books of this grade coming available in this economy at this particular time would have sold for tremendous multiples even if they had been named "The Billy Parker's FACE Collection".