The story of a promise made during the Korean War 9 9

[Cat-Man_America]

Given the profits made from this collection, both in respect to money and careers, I think the old Reagan era adage "trust, but verify" might reasonably be applied to this pedigree. 

[tth2]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:58 AM, Crowzilla said:

The Promise Phantom Lady #17 and Detective #140 combined sold for a higher price than the Wright Detective #27 (6.5) and Action #1 (3.0) combined when first offered.

How times have changed! 

[Bird]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:08 PM, jimjum12 said:

My feelings as well. In the same way that many States now allow winners of lotteries to maintain their privacy, desiring that same anonymity in this case is just smart. The Family doesn't owe any of us anything, beyond the books that we purchased. The research is compelling and admirable, but blasting it out on a public message board that has already attracted many less than honorable people, is in poor taste where I come from. GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

I think both sides are fair game. HA should protect the privacy of their consignors, as well as their buyers. But fandom has a right as well to do their thing, fandom has even less responsibilities in the situation than HA. Fandom finding the story is no more responsible for someone acting poorly towards the family than HA for selling (meaning neither party is responsible, the actor who would harass has sole responsibility). I don't find it in poor taste at all, in fact it appears that THIS investigation is being conducted with respect and civility towards OO of the books

 

On 2/16/2022 at 8:11 PM, Jayman said:

If they are entrusted to keep the family’s anonymity, Heritage would likely say they are not even if you guessed correctly. 

I would think denying a truthful fact would open HA to legal issues.

[Bird]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:17 PM, BS Damutantman said:

They might have received/are receiving a large sum of money for the collection, and many people would want to keep that information private.

damn 1099s! they are ruining it for everyone!!!

[Robot Man]

On 2/17/2022 at 6:45 AM, Bird said:

damn 1099s! they are ruining it for everyone!!!

I’d love to have to pay that tax bill…

[Robot Man]

On 2/16/2022 at 9:45 PM, sfcityduck said:

Bob, you make a really apt comparison. The Okajima pedigree has opened the eyes of comic collectors to the little known history of the Japanese internment.  The Promise Collection could open the eyes of comic collectors to the little known history of Korean War MIA/POWs if Bob and Roger are the Promise Collection brothers.  That's important history that should be shared. That history is everything in the story of Bob and Roger Dumas. If the Promise Collection is tied to Bob and Roger, it is a story worth telling.

I agree but the comics really aren’t the important part of this story (except to us). This man’s lifetime devotion to finding his brother is the amazing part. A sad and compelling story.

Anyone who has served in a war knows that in the chaos of it, soldiers die, and people disappear. Many service men and women will never be accounted for.

I had a buddy who also spent the rest of his life trying to put to rest MIA/POWS to rest. He had some success but there are still thousands unaccounted for. He, like Robert, was an incredible man. 

[Tri-Color Brian]

On 2/17/2022 at 8:42 AM, Robot Man said:

I’d love to have to pay that tax bill…

What a magnanimous gesture!  I know it's not quite the same, but you're welcome to pay MY tax bill if you want...Thanks in advance...

[Jayman]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:44 AM, Bird said:

I think both sides are fair game. HA should protect the privacy of their consignors, as well as their buyers. But fandom has a right as well to do their thing, fandom has even less responsibilities in the situation than HA. Fandom finding the story is no more responsible for someone acting poorly towards the family than HA for selling (meaning neither party is responsible, the actor who would harass has sole responsibility). I don't find it in poor taste at all, in fact it appears that THIS investigation is being conducted with respect and civility towards OO of the books

 

I would think denying a truthful fact would open HA to legal issues.

Or just refusing to answer would work for them.

[Robot Man]

Maybe this, like the San Francisco collection, is something we forget about the “story” and just enjoy them for what they are.

At the end of the day, it is a remarkable collection that was respected and put away for us to enjoy and marvel at.

The story, is simply a marketing ploy for us to loosen out purse strings a little more. And it has obviously worked.

I seriously doubt that HA auctions are going to confirm or deny it at this point anyway. There is simply too much money at stake for them to do so. 

[jimjum12]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:44 AM, Bird said:

THIS investigation is being conducted with respect and civility towards OO of the books

I agree ... the research effort is especially impressive. I've always thought highly of Duck, but the more I like someone, the more likely it seems to be that there will be "that one thing".  Unfortunately, I've known people who suddenly came into large sums of money, and you'd be surprised at how thoroughly and rapidly the Vultures begin to circle. You almost have to relocate (at the minimum). GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[MrBedrock]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:59 AM, sfcityduck said:

Here's a good news article from 1992 on Bob and Roger Dumas for those interested:

 

Two interesting things from this article - 1) Roger was seen at a prison camp as late as 1957, four years after the armistice. I guess it could be remotely possible that he could still be alive. 2) There were four Dumas brothers who served in the war.

[sfcityduck]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:31 AM, MrBedrock said:

Two interesting things from this article - 1) Roger was seen at a prison camp as late as 1957, four years after the armistice. I guess it could be remotely possible that he could still be alive. 2) There were four Dumas brothers who served in the war.

Extremely remote.  Roger would be 90 now, and its been 64 years since that sighting.  I'd also think that if any POW was still alive, President Trump would have brought them home from his visit to North Korea, instead of just human remains.

The Dumas family had six brothers (Bob and Roger the two youngest about 16 months apart) and one sister.  At least four brothers (maybe even five - the media reports can be ambiguous and I have not yet found all the military records) were in Korea at the same time.  I have seen a group photograph of Bob and some of his brothers together in Korea - may be in a documentary.  

Edited February 17, 2022 by sfcityduck

[shadroch]

I would think any legal claim the original owner had to these books is long gone.  I also don't see how exposing the identity of the family will help anyone. If they wished to be publicly identified, they'd have done so. I don't know Mr. Dumas but he seems like a good man who dedicated his life to one cause. 

I will respect his privacy and think anyone of good will should do the same.

Edited February 17, 2022 by shadroch

[adamstrange]

On 2/17/2022 at 11:52 AM, jimjum12 said:

I agree ... the research effort is especially impressive. I've always thought highly of Duck, but the more I like someone, the more likely it seems to be that there will be "that one thing".  Unfortunately, I've known people who suddenly came into large sums of money, and you'd be surprised at how thoroughly and rapidly the Vultures begin to circle. You almost have to relocate (at the minimum). GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Duck is fine online but, in person, communicating with someone who speaks only in iambic pentameter with a Donald Duck voice is more than a little challenging.

[Straw-Man]

On 2/17/2022 at 1:38 PM, adamstrange said:

Duck is fine online but, in person, communicating with someone who speaks only in iambic pentameter with a Donald Duck voice is more than a little challenging.

this quacked me up!!  still giggling.

[MasterChief]

On 2/15/2022 at 12:39 PM, sfcityduck said:

Thought some folks might find this bit of history interesting:

Your study is fascinating and noteworthy. It is apparent you've taken the time to gather the data necessary to construct the framework for a persuasive presentation. It's the type of work rarely seen any more on these board or within the hobby. That said, and as a collector with a few of the Promise Books in my collection, I'd say the depth of backstory you are presenting is forming a fascinating aura surrounding the collection that, in and of itself, is capable of generating additional value of honored ownership. So thank you for your work. It's refreshing to say the least.

By the way, do you have any idea as to the inscriptions on the following books?

One is marked with "This book belongs to Jean..." (I can't make out what comes after "Jean")

And the other has the word "Stange" in pencil with an underscore.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

(FYI...I've tweaked the image cutout to emphasize the writing)

 

[sfcityduck]

On 2/17/2022 at 5:36 PM, MasterChief said:

 

By the way, do you have any idea as to the inscriptions on the following books?

One is marked with "This book belongs to Jean..." (I can't make out what comes after "Jean")

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

(FYI...I've tweaked the image cutout to emphasize the writing)

 

 

Wow!  I am super impressed.  You have surprised me by finding something I didn't notice!

I agree the inscription on the Batman 3 says "This belongs to Jean[  ]."  Where I put the brackets there are either missing letters and/or letter fragments (maybe over aggressive cleaning?).  I think the last word "Jean" could read as "Jeanette" with the fragment being the letter "t"s or the fragment could be part of a cursive capital "D" and it reads "Jean D."  

However, I might be deceiving myself because Bob (born 1930) and Roger (born 1931) were the youngest of seven siblings.  They'd have been just 9 or 10 when that comic came out.  On the other hand, their next closest sibling, their sister, was born in 1925 and would have been 15 when that comic came out.  Her name was Theresa Jeanette Dumas.  E.g., maybe a  "Jeanette" or "Jean D."

Thank you so much for sharing this!  Great spotting!

Edited February 18, 2022 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

On 2/17/2022 at 5:36 PM, MasterChief said:

And the other has the word "Stange" in pencil with an underscore.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Again you have sharper eyes than me!  I didn't see that book either.  Very impressive!

That Action 141 clearly says "STANGE."  Stange is a last name.  A quick search reveals there were some Stange families in the area where the Dumas family lived.  I have no reason to think they had any tie to the Dumas family.  So this might cut against my theory.

The way that name is written really puzzles me.  All of the "Armands"  written on Promise Collection books are done in cursive (often a messy cursive).  Cursive was taught early, especially for signatures.  So I'm a bit surprised to see a very neat and well-written, almost stylized (like an architect's writing), all caps block print name.  It seems like a mature hand, but it is not only printed -- it is all caps block printed.  Just seems weird. It's also written with what I think is a heavier hand than the "Armand" cursive words.  I can't explain that one. 

If I were a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I'd note that book was sold a week or so ago, and wonder if the signature was added recently to throw people off from the "Armand" names.  But, I definitely am not a conspiracy theorist!  That was not a serious suggestion!  My best guess is that maybe the OO had a friend with the last name Stange.  It is a complete mystery to me.  I can't explain it.

Again, if I'm leading people astray, I hope Heritage tells me.

Edited February 18, 2022 by sfcityduck

[Tri-Color Brian]

Maybe STANGE is the word Strange without the "R", because that is a strange cover.  How could a crystal hurt Superman?  Very STRANGE...

The plot thickens...

[LearnedHand]

On 2/17/2022 at 9:02 PM, sfcityduck said:

Again you have sharper eyes than me!  I didn't see that book either.  Very impressive!

That Action 141 clearly says "STANGE."  Stange is a last name.  A quick search reveals there were some Stange families in the area where the Dumas family lived.  I have no reason to think they had any tie to the Dumas family.  So this might cut against my theory.

The way that name is written really puzzles me.  All of the "Armands"  written on Promise Collection books are done in cursive (often a messy cursive).  Cursive was taught early, especially for signatures.  So I'm a bit surprised to see a very neat and well-written, almost stylized (like an architect's writing), all caps block print name.  It seems like a mature hand, but it is not only printed -- it is all caps block printed.  Just seems weird. It's also written with what I think is a heavier hand than the "Armand" cursive words.  I can't explain that one. 

If I were a paranoid conspiracy theorist, I'd note that book was sold a week or so ago, and wonder if the signature was added recently to throw people off from the "Armand" names.  But, I definitely am not a conspiracy theorist!  That was not a serious suggestion!  My best guess is that maybe the OO had a friend with the last name Stange.  It is a complete mystery to me.  I can't explain it.

Again, if I'm leading people astray, I hope Heritage tells me.

 

Or ... like many children did in the 1940s-1950s: they traded comic books with their school and neighborhood friends.  If the Promise collection is what you think it is - the Dumas boy's collection - trading books with friends could explain a few errant books with different names.  

By the way, if "stange" wasn't a misspelling, it's a German surname.  At least where I grew up in NYC, many neighborhoods with immigrants from Europe would be comprised of German, Irish, French, Italian, Greek families.  

Note: my comments above are only data points and agnostic to context, as it's easy to find facts to support most any theory ...