Just Got Back Some Books - VERY Ticked Off 5 5

[PovertyRow]

I have confidence in my decades of collecting, studying restoration and paper and even learning in a major restorer's studio.

I had books sent to be cleaned/pressed and then dropped off at CGC. Got 7 back so far from Modern - have to wonder what my older 3 tier Standard will be like. Now none of these are uber books by any means but I expect to get something within the realm of accuracy and clarity. Since these were all numbered sequentially probably the same handlers/graders got them? Not sure how they parcel out the work at CGC.

It is not worth the hassle and the ridiculous wait time to send these back for review. But this has convinced me to seriously re-think this "hobby". It is readily apparent that something is way off now.

Moon Knight #1
6.0 White (6.0???!!!)
Grader Notes
light foreign substance bottom of back cover - WTH kind of notation is "light foreign substance?" More importantly, there is absolutely nothing on the bottom back cover. 
multiple bend - I see them ("multiple bend"...singular???)  Classic finger type impressions/bends that do not break color. Easily could have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC
spine stress lines I agree. Maybe 4 very small and one larger one within a dent but nowhere near as harsh as to bring it down to a 6.0

Spider-Woman #1
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
multiple spine stress lines breaks color
small, very light stain left top of back cover - no sign of any stain, light or otherwise, anywhere on the top back cover.

X-Men #130
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
light finger bends - I see these. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC
spine stress lines
very small crease left bottom of back cover - cannot see even a hint of this

Ms. Marvel #1
8.0 WHITE
Grader Notes
bottom staple popped from front cover - this book certainly did not start out with a popped staple, and no sign of one at any angle I can see through the case. Cover and staples were tight with WP. Something happened.
spine stress lines
very small, multiple crease front cover - These I see. Classic NCB creases. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by PovertyRow
spelling

[buttock]

I guess CCS only guarantees that they will press the book, not that it'll do any good.  My experience was that on 5% they popped the staple.  And it wasn't the case that these were staples in jeopardy of being popped.  

[PovertyRow]

On 2/20/2022 at 8:49 PM, buttock said:

I guess CCS only guarantees that they will press the book, not that it'll do any good.  My experience was that on 5% they popped the staple.  And it wasn't the case that these were staples in jeopardy of being popped.  

Hey Buttock! Appreciate the reply. I didn't have CCS press them. 

[buttock]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:54 PM, PovertyRow said:

Hey Buttock! Appreciate the reply. I didn't have CCS press them. 

Ah, sorry.  I assumed that.  From what you're describing, sounds like whoever did the C/P might have damaged them and/or not done a very good job? 

[PovertyRow]

Well as I said could be press or could be mishandling at CGC. I do have a lot of faith in the pressing service I used. Just incredibly frustrating and it really does give me pause. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

It's pretty bad if you cannot be 100% sure whether or not the presser or CGC caused the problems.

[Transplant]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:29 PM, PovertyRow said:

Well as I said could be press or could be mishandling at CGC. I do have a lot of faith in the pressing service I used. Just incredibly frustrating and it really does give me pause. 

No idea who your presser is, but my money is almost always on CGC for finger bends/similar damage. It is too constant a refrain from experienced boardie graders and I hear it from at least one world class presser, that these things appear on books after being sent.  

[thehumantorch]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:33 PM, PovertyRow said:

I have confidence in my decades of collecting, studying restoration and paper and even learning in a major restorer's studio.

I had books sent to be cleaned/pressed and then dropped off at CGC. Got 7 back so far from Modern - have to wonder what my older 3 tier Standard will be like. Now none of these are uber books by any means but I expect to get something within the realm of accuracy and clarity. Since these were all numbered sequentially probably the same handlers/graders got them? Not sure how they parcel out the work at CGC.

It is not worth the hassle and the ridiculous wait time to send these back for review. But this has convinced me to seriously re-think this "hobby". It is readily apparent that something is way off now.

Moon Knight #1
6.0 White (6.0???!!!)
Grader Notes
light foreign substance bottom of back cover - WTH kind of notation is "light foreign substance?" More importantly, there is absolutely nothing on the bottom back cover. 
multiple bend - I see them ("multiple bend"...singular???)  Classic finger type impressions/bends that do not break color. Easily could have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC
spine stress lines I agree. Maybe 4 very small and one a bit longer but nowhere near as harsh as to bring it down to a 6.0

Spider-Woman #1
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
multiple spine stress lines breaks color
small, very light stain left top of back cover - no sign of any stain, light or otherwise, anywhere on the top back cover.

X-Men #130
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
light finger bends - I see these. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC
spine stress lines
very small crease left bottom of back cover - cannot see even a hint of this

Ms. Marvel #1
8.0 WHITE
Grader Notes
bottom staple popped from front cover - this book certainly did not start out with a popped staple, and no sign of one at any angle I can see through the case. Cover and staples were tight with WP. Something happened.
spine stress lines
very small, multiple crease front cover - These I see. Classic NCB creases. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC

 

Sigh, more and more it feels like it's time to look for alternatives to CGC.  Huge delays, poor communication, debris in case, damaged books, CGC has never been this bad and is losing, shrug has lost, my confidence.  And I'm shocked to say that as I've been a cheerleader for this company for years.  Previous submission there was debris in about 25% of the cases.  Previous sub to that a GA book was damaged and ripped in two locations by the spacer.  Currently waiting on 3 subs.  1 is finally graded and I can't wait to see it as a couple books graded lower than expected and honestly, that is rare, and two more that I have no idea where they are in the process.

Edited February 22, 2022 by thehumantorch

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:33 PM, PovertyRow said:

I have confidence in my decades of collecting, studying restoration and paper and even learning in a major restorer's studio.

I had books sent to be cleaned/pressed and then dropped off at CGC. Got 7 back so far from Modern - have to wonder what my older 3 tier Standard will be like. Now none of these are uber books by any means but I expect to get something within the realm of accuracy and clarity. Since these were all numbered sequentially probably the same handlers/graders got them? Not sure how they parcel out the work at CGC.

It is not worth the hassle and the ridiculous wait time to send these back for review. But this has convinced me to seriously re-think this "hobby". It is readily apparent that something is way off now.

Moon Knight #1
6.0 White (6.0???!!!)
Grader Notes
light foreign substance bottom of back cover - WTH kind of notation is "light foreign substance?" More importantly, there is absolutely nothing on the bottom back cover. 
multiple bend - I see them ("multiple bend"...singular???)  Classic finger type impressions/bends that do not break color. Easily could have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC
spine stress lines I agree. Maybe 4 very small and one a bit longer but nowhere near as harsh as to bring it down to a 6.0

Spider-Woman #1
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
multiple spine stress lines breaks color
small, very light stain left top of back cover - no sign of any stain, light or otherwise, anywhere on the top back cover.

X-Men #130
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
light finger bends - I see these. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC
spine stress lines
very small crease left bottom of back cover - cannot see even a hint of this

Ms. Marvel #1
8.0 WHITE
Grader Notes
bottom staple popped from front cover - this book certainly did not start out with a popped staple, and no sign of one at any angle I can see through the case. Cover and staples were tight with WP. Something happened.
spine stress lines
very small, multiple crease front cover - These I see. Classic NCB creases. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC

 

The books were cleaned and pressed....

And these are the graders notes after slabbing?

[PovertyRow]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:22 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

The books were cleaned and pressed....

And these are the graders notes after slabbing?

Yeah...color me  as well. The press/cleaner is so reputable I do not want to associate their name with this mess. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 2/22/2022 at 6:05 PM, PovertyRow said:

Yeah...color me  as well. The press/cleaner is so reputable I do not want to associate their name with this mess. 

That will be inevitable....

[Artboy99]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:03 PM, thehumantorch said:

Sigh, more and more it feels like it's time to look for alternatives to CGC.  Huge delays, poor communication, debris in case, damaged books, CGC has never been this bad and is losing, shrug has lost, my confidence.  And I'm shocked to say that as I've been a cheerleader for this company for years.  Previous submission there was debris in about 25% of the cases.  Previous sub to that a GA book was damaged and ripped in two locations by the spacer.  Currently waiting on 3 subs.  1 is finally graded and I can't wait to see it as a couple books graded lower than expected and honestly, that is rare, and two more that I have no idea where they are in the process.

Not meaning to correct you: yes we are currently waiting on 3 submissions, 1 of which is over 1/3rd done. 25 of 61 books graded in that submission.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Artboy99

[Artboy99]

On 2/20/2022 at 9:33 PM, PovertyRow said:

I have confidence in my decades of collecting, studying restoration and paper and even learning in a major restorer's studio.

I had books sent to be cleaned/pressed and then dropped off at CGC. Got 7 back so far from Modern - have to wonder what my older 3 tier Standard will be like. Now none of these are uber books by any means but I expect to get something within the realm of accuracy and clarity. Since these were all numbered sequentially probably the same handlers/graders got them? Not sure how they parcel out the work at CGC.

It is not worth the hassle and the ridiculous wait time to send these back for review. But this has convinced me to seriously re-think this "hobby". It is readily apparent that something is way off now.

Moon Knight #1
6.0 White (6.0???!!!)
Grader Notes
light foreign substance bottom of back cover - WTH kind of notation is "light foreign substance?" More importantly, there is absolutely nothing on the bottom back cover. 
multiple bend - I see them ("multiple bend"...singular???)  Classic finger type impressions/bends that do not break color. Easily could have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC
spine stress lines I agree. Maybe 4 very small and one a bit longer but nowhere near as harsh as to bring it down to a 6.0

Spider-Woman #1
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
multiple spine stress lines breaks color
small, very light stain left top of back cover - no sign of any stain, light or otherwise, anywhere on the top back cover.

X-Men #130
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
light finger bends - I see these. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC
spine stress lines
very small crease left bottom of back cover - cannot see even a hint of this

Ms. Marvel #1
8.0 WHITE
Grader Notes
bottom staple popped from front cover - this book certainly did not start out with a popped staple, and no sign of one at any angle I can see through the case. Cover and staples were tight with WP. Something happened.
spine stress lines
very small, multiple crease front cover - These I see. Classic NCB creases. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC

 

I am very worried about the 125 or so books I have submitted because of these frequently occurring quality issues. 

I don't think it is your presser, this is happening after the books have been received. As an example: a reputable presser will get "light finger bends" out of a book, that alone tells me these notable comments have happened after of course this assumes your presser did the work.

I submitted books through a local comic store and asked/paid for pressing/cleaning and when I got the books back from CGC it was clear little if any work had been done. That or the books reverted.

[thehumantorch]

On 2/22/2022 at 4:29 PM, Artboy99 said:

Not meaning to correct you: yes we are currently waiting on 3 submissions, 1 of which is over 1/3rd done. 25 of 61 books graded in that submission.

Yes, just figured that was unnecessary detail.  

[Pimp-C719]

I just got my latest submission back after waiting literally over a year to get them. Im not a noob and the last submission i sent in (2 years ago)  i guessed the grades id get back prior to sending them in and i was 100% correct. But this time i did the same thing and the grades i got back were total malarkey! Literally 1 almost imperceptible non-color breaking spine tick & that is it (venom 3 1st knull) and its a 9.4? Literally a flawless copy. Plus they didnt use the custom label i paid for! This isnt just me whining about not getting the grades i wanted. Im disgusted with the experience and im cancelling my membership. It just feels like CGC is a scam and can no longer be trusted. But unfortunately they wont even notice my exit because the ignorant trend-chasing hordes will still blindly throw their money at CGC and they will happily take it while they on our heads and try to convince us its raining. Thanks for nothing CGC. Im not going to give u another dime & ill tell everyone i know not to go through u. CGC: Guaranteed to Disappoint!

[PovertyRow]

I missed one of the returns:

Marvel Spotlight 32
7.0 WHITE

Grader Notes
bend right top of front cover - NCB and easily pressable. Also easily could have been caused by mishandling at CGC.
multiple crease back cover - again same as above. Easy to press out but looks like heavy finger pressure would have caused this.
small crease right center of front cover breaks color
spine stress lines

Pics of creases back cover and top right bend:

 

[PovertyRow]

Pics from X-Men 130

X-Men #130
9.2 WHITE
Grader Notes
light finger bends - I see these. They could easily have been taken care of by pressing but they could just as easily been caused by mishandling at CGC

[PovertyRow]

Ms Marvel #1 8.0 WP

bottom staple popped from front cover - this book certainly did not start out with a popped staple, and no sign of one at any angle I can see through the case. Cover and staples were tight with WP. Something happened.

[PovertyRow]

Sadly no matter how I angle it I cannot get a good shot showing the NCB dents on the Moon Knight #1. So here is a full scan of a 6.0. Again, no sign of any light stain on back and scanning it just shows a nice white reverse.

NOTE the lower right line on the red dress is a NCB crease that is reflecting light so it looks color breaking. And a lot of that mess next to "Premier Issue" is from NCB creasing within that dent along with the Color Breaking Creasing. Note that the deep breaking creasing there was not present when I sent the book in.  6.0 is very harsh for this. At least they did WP.

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by PovertyRow

[Col. Chestbridge]

Same thing happened on my books. This is a shot of the surface and spine on an Ultimate Fallout 4 before I sent it to CGC and I think its apparent the condition of the spine in the slab is nowhere near what I sent in. Needless to say I won't be sending anything CGC's way anytime soon. I wish this were the only one that had issues. Had a ASM 361 come back with an absurd 9.0 due to a none existent crease on the back and a suspicious corner crease that showed up in CGC's possession (much like the spine on the UF4).