Just want to confirm that this eBayer doesn't know what he's talking about 1 1

[Poekaymon]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:12 PM, ttfitz said:

I am also a buyer of ft88 books, and agree that often he undergrades.

But not always - from my perspective - so I always make my own determination.

But I will admit that it helps, given that I'm familiar with his grading and how he has been in the past, to have a starting point of what he thinks the proper grade is. Same thing with MCS, they are much stricter than I am, generally speaking, and I will often bid more than I usually would given the grade assigned. But sometimes I agree with their grade - which I guess they've overgraded by MCS standards, right? 

But not some random eBay seller, no way to judge.

I agree, I just don't want to make it seem like I'm putting down all sellers.  There are plenty of people on this forum who if they told you it was NM you could probably believe it was NM even if you didn't see a pic.  (But of course most people are still going to want to see it.)  Just trying to make it clear that I am talking about the eBay hoi polloi.  

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:13 PM, Poekaymon said:

It does make sense for someone who doesn't know anything, which is why I made the comment I did previously which apparently confused some people.  If you really have no idea, then you might as well gamble that the person listing it has some idea.  There is a chance you'll be like blind buying from the blind, but I guess it's better than nothing in that case.  I can't see why anyone else would care whatsoever what some yahoo put in the description to try to sell his book.  But I admit that the ways of the Beyonder are a bit of a mystery to me still.

Why do you continue to talk about me....when I’m right here? 

[southern cross]

On 3/1/2022 at 3:40 PM, ttfitz said:

Who said they didn't grade, or didn't know how to grade?

I grade my books, price them according to that grade, and list them - I just don't put in my listing what I think the grade is. 

That is how lcs and dealers at conventions operate.

Difference is I can ask them to remove the book from the bag and hand it over so I can look at it in my hand and judge if the price is too high, reasonable or a very good bargain.

Hard to do with just pictures sometimes

[lostboys]

On 3/1/2022 at 5:07 PM, Poekaymon said:

If you're going to put any grade, then, yes, undergrading is the way to go.  So instead of NM or NM+ you put VF/NM.  In that case though, experienced people may wonder if there is something they can't see like a crease that didn't show up.  If they message you, you can just say you're being conservative, but maybe they won't bother.  I also think a lot of people will just skip over it if they see anything lower than NM in the title, whereas a book with no grade they might have a look.  But yeah, basically whatever's been working for you, no grade at all, undergrading, or whatever, can just stick with it.  Really the only thing I wouldn't consider is overgrading, which I do see a lot of, and I always wonder how many returns they deal with.  I guess they have decided the extra money they make on the ones that don't get returned makes up for it--but that's not for me. 

If I'm looking for a certain book, ill actually seek out sellers that list books as NM+ or assign a nice high grade like 9.6.  

There are some VERY good sellers on Ebay. The key for me is that they must have 100% positive feedback and a ton of recent sales.

I've found a few guys who I consider my "go to guys" on Ebay. I always check their stock first before I shop around for a book.

 

[kav]

On 2/28/2022 at 12:13 PM, Poekaymon said:

So I sold a $200 raw on the Bay.  Multiple accurate pictures.  Included the usual disclaimer about not being a professional and buyers need to judge condition solely on the pics.  No returns accepted.  Etc.

Sure enough, a few days after the buyer receives it, he opens a claim with eBay stating that it doesn't match the description.  I asked him what the problem was because my pics were good, so I wanted to make sure it didn't get damaged in shipping, but that wasn't it--he accused me of trimming the book and attached the pics below:

Now I don't know much about trimming, but I am pretty sure the goal  it is to make the book look better--not worse.  And I'm a little bit offended, not just because he thinks I'm the next Dupcak, but at the notion that I'd do such a crappy job.  I've never trimmed a book in my life, but my first effort would be better than this.  I mean who would leave a huge bulging overhang (giggity) like that?  Anyway, I did some searching on these forums and found other threads on this, like this one, that seemed to be similar:  

 

I told him it was much more likely to be the opposite problem--that it simply had an untrimmed page due to a not uncommon printing error.  I even gave him the link to the forums, and that particular thread above, and asked him to come get some second opinions before pushing the return on me. 

Nope.  He refused to do so and steadfastly maintained that it had been tampered with.  He said if he sent it to CGC it'd get a Restored grade.  I argued with him a little bit because it all seemed too idiotic for me.  For one thing, that untrimmed overhang was visible right in my listing pictures!  So arguing that it didn't match the description was completely baseless, and I was pretty tempted to deny the return outright, though my understanding is eBay is pretty hostile to sellers.  Also, just from a common sense perspective, I don't see why anyone would "trim" a page like that.  And I bought this thing for pretty cheap, long before the recent price run ups, so it wouldn't have even been worth the time.

He finally said: "We just disagree about the condition of the book.  Please refund me."  That response bothered me as much or more than the trimming accusation because even if it was true, I expressly did not guarantee a grade and he was to make his own determination based on the pictures--in other words, we had nothing to disagree on as to condition. Was really tempted to respond "We don't disagree at all--I agree with you 100% that the book is pure trash.  But it's exactly what was pictured and that was all you were guaranteed.  Have a nice day."  But I decided that there are more important things going on in the world right now than my ebay sales, so I just refunded him.  

Anyway, besides the rant, I actually do want to get a second opinion from you learned folks before I relist this book.  I mean if other buyers are going to accuse me of trimming and demand refunds, I may as well break out an Xacto and a ruler and fix this crappy "trim job" myself.  

pretty sure its production defect.

[fastballspecial]

On 2/28/2022 at 4:10 PM, ianders0n said:

I'm new to this but I agree with you 100%. I'm not a professional grader so why would I pretend to be? I could just go around calling everything VF or NM and call it a day. I feel like that is where you get into trouble, not the other way around. Say I'm selling a book and calling it a 6.0 and after the buyer gets it and CGCs it comes back as a 5.0. Do they get their money back because I put down an inaccurate grade?

Especially in this situation where the defect was literally on the listing photos I feel like the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on. They saw the defect and chose to purchase it knowing exactly what the book looked like.

How did you determine a price for you book? Thats right you graded it. 

If you can't grade a book honestly you have no business selling them then. It only opens you up to issues. 
Taking a bunch of pictures doesn't excuse you from the basic fact of giving a grading and listing defects. 
And yes sometimes you will make a mistake this allows you to practice your customer service skills.

This fear of doing something wrong by doing that is ridiculous. I sell around 1,000+ books a year on CGC and Ebay
with 90%+ being raw books. Every book I sell gets a grade and description. I find it actually lazy and uneducated
to not grade something you are selling. I am quite sure if its the other way around you would want a grade.

As some have already told you on Ebay you have to take returns. Know how many I had this last year? or last 5 years?
Zero.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by fastballspecial

[kav]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:08 PM, fastballspecial said:

How did you determine a price for you book? Thats right you graded it. 

If you can't grade a book honestly you have no business selling them then. It only opens you up to issues. 
Taking a bunch of pictures doesn't excuse you from the basic fact of giving a grading and listing defects. 
And yes sometimes you will make a mistake this allows you to practice your customer service skills.

This fear of doing something wrong by doing that is ridiculous. I sell around 1,000+ books a year on CGC and Ebay
with 90%+ being raw books. Every book I sell gets a grade and description. I find it actually lazy and uneducated
to not grade something you are selling. I am quite sure if its the other way around you would want a grade.

As some have already told you on Ebay you have to take returns. Know how many I had this last year? or last 5 years?
Zero.

 

 

book price can also be determined by starting auction at 99 cents.

[fastballspecial]

On 2/28/2022 at 6:57 PM, kav said:

We've all seen ebay sellers that 'list grades' that make us laugh our *spoon* off.  Listing a grade is not some panacea.   

True, it actually says you stand behind your grade and you have examined the book and listed
defects.
 
There are a multitude of issues a picture will not show. You give the buyer a fair idea of what
the grade is. 

Otherwise how do you obtain an asking price? You don't just pull a price out of your head. 
You grade it and compare it to other prices in your said grade that you won't put in your listing. 
 

 

[fastballspecial]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:14 PM, kav said:

book price can also be determined by starting auction at 99 cents.

Thats not determining anything, but fishing for a sucker. 

 

[MetalPSI]

Which didn't happen, but anyways

[kav]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:16 PM, fastballspecial said:

Thats not determining anything, but fishing for a sucker. 

 

dont see how you can fish for a sucker in an auction as several bidders will engage and book goes for near what it's worth.  

[Poekaymon]

 

On 3/1/2022 at 10:16 PM, fastballspecial said:

Thats not determining anything, but fishing for a sucker. 

 

Disagree--that's what an overpriced BIN is.  Letting the market determine the price is exactly that.    

On 3/1/2022 at 10:08 PM, fastballspecial said:

If you can't grade a book honestly you have no business selling them then. It only opens you up to issues. 

That's a pretty tough stance to take.  So someone who just winds up with them but knows nothing about the hobby can't just list them--they have to go learn to grade, something that even people who have been in the hobby for a lifetime don't agree on?  How about an estate sale?  How about someone who is just cutting down on clutter and has no time to really educate themselves? 

I mean I totally understand that you think your way is the gold standard, and maybe it is, but it can't possibly apply to everyone.  What I actually see more than no grade at all is the people who just put up some hopeful, arbitrary and/or incorrect grade (have provided at least 4 links in this thread alone of examples).  That's worse than just not giving a grade at all, imo.  But it sure might be "honest" in that maybe some of them actually believe those grades.  I'd rather just avoid all of that.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Poekaymon

[fastballspecial]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:20 PM, kav said:

dont see how you can fish for a sucker in an auction as several bidders will engage and book goes for near what it's worth.  

Without a grade you lessen the ability to get what its full value is. If you want full value stand behind the product you sell.
If not then hope your book is hot enough to attract multiple buyers to bid the book up. I can tell you the majority 
of the time this is a losing proposition. 

 

[kav]

I guess the essence of this debate is sell how you want but dont tell others how to sell.  I never list grades, have successful sales, and no complaints.  someone here tells me i need to list grades i just say nope.

[kav]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:22 PM, fastballspecial said:

Without a grade you lessen the ability to get what its full value is. If you want full value stand behind the product you sell.
If not then hope your book is hot enough to attract multiple buyers to bid the book up. I can tell you the majority 
of the time this is a losing proposition. 

 

I always get full value and then some.  I know how to grade but I never list grades.  

[fastballspecial]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:22 PM, Poekaymon said:

 

Disagree--that's what an overpriced BIN is.  Letting the market determine the price is exactly that.    

That's a pretty strong tough to take.  So someone who inherits them but knows nothing about the hobby can't just list them--they have to go learn to grade, something that even people who have been in the hobby for a lifetime don't agree on?  How about an estate sale?  How about someone who is just cutting down on clutter and has no time to really educate themselves? 

I mean I totally understand that you think your way is the gold standard, and maybe it is, but it can't possibly apply to everyone.  What I actually see more than no grade at all is the people who just put up some hopeful, arbitrary and/or incorrect grade (have provided at least 4 links in this thread alone of examples).  That's worse than just not giving a grade, imo.

I mean I totally understand that you think your way is the gold standard, and maybe it is, but it can't possibly apply to everyone.  What I actually see more than no grade at all is the people who just put up some hopeful, arbitrary and/or incorrect grade (have provided at least 4 links in this thread alone of examples).  That's worse than just not giving a grade, imo.

Its not the gold standard, but its allows for you to properly expand your business and offer customers with some certainity
that you are making an effort to grade your book and value your book correctly. 

That's a pretty strong tough to take.  So someone who inherits them but knows nothing about the hobby can't just list them--they have to go learn to grade, something that even people who have been in the hobby for a lifetime don't agree on?  How about an estate sale?  How about someone who is just cutting down on clutter and has no time to really educate themselves? 

I see this all the time. You have choices. Take them to the Goodwill. Take them to established seller and make some profit.  Take them to an auction house and lose a good slice of profit. Take them to a comic shop and lose more profit. Or put in the time and maximize your value. You get the make the choice. But if you want your maximized value and attract the most buyers the choice is obvious.  The majority want the last option, but don't want to put in the time. 

Disagree--that's what an overpriced BIN is.  Letting the market determine the price is exactly that. 

For one day or week sure? A BIN with an offer function is the start of a negotiation. Used correctly 
nobody likes the price which means its probably fair to both parties. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by fastballspecial

[kav]

saying list grades so people will have some idea assumes every buyer is rational and an expert grader.  nope.

[fastballspecial]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:23 PM, kav said:

I guess the essence of this debate is sell how you want but dont tell others how to sell.  I never list grades, have successful sales, and no complaints.  someone here tells me i need to list grades i just say nope.

And great if you sell a few books from time to time. It's not a successful business model by any means. 

 

[fastballspecial]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:31 PM, kav said:

saying list grades so people will have some idea assumes every buyer is rational and an expert grader.  nope.

You can make that comment about any customer and any business. Thats not how to view selling. And it will not 
yield you the most customers which is what you want. 

 

[kav]

On 3/1/2022 at 7:32 PM, fastballspecial said:

And great if you sell a few books from time to time. It's not a successful business model by any means. 

 

Disagree.  I think its an excellent business model.  cuts out a large source of headaches right out of the gate.