Oh Man I Sure Hope the Comics Market Never Crashes as Bad as the Stamps Market 13 13

[shadroch]

When I was younger, there was a coin and stamp shop in every small town, and most department stores had a coin department or kiosk.  A shop sold war nickles for eight cents and another bought them for a dime.  I'd buy three with my allowance, ride three miles on my bike, and make six cents.  I'd buy a bag of wise potato chips for 5 cents and still have my allowance.  My Uncle gave me thirty cents for each pre-1965 quarter I'd find, so I'd offer my friends 27 cents.  My record for converting them was eight quarters at a time. I made enough to buy an RC Cola, chips, and a 12-cent comic. 

It doesn't sound like much, but I'd sometimes convert my 25-cent allowance into three 12-cent comics and two or three 5-cent bags of chips. 

Edited January 4 by shadroch

[Robot Man]

On 1/1/2024 at 1:03 PM, William-James88 said:

This aint wrong. Boomers are only between 59 and 77. So up to 30 years left to live for those which get to 90. Healthcare technology will get better but also more expensive and if they want to keep living, they'll keep spending, drying up those coffers. Also, and this is just a personal thing, but I don't intend to leave any money for my kids, maybe I'm not the only one to think that way. I'll support them so that they can thrive in their career path but I do wish for them to be self sufficient. And plus, they'll inherit my comics and what I collect is the least likely stuff to be worthless later (superhero GA, early Marvel SA).

Big doubt on that when they can finally buy the bitcoin they've always wanted instead.

My daughter will probably blow my comic money on American muscle cars. Frankly, wouldn’t bother me a bit. 

[Robot Man]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:52 AM, shadroch said:

When I was younger, there was a coin and stamp shop in every small town, and most department stores had a coin department or kiosk.  A shop sold war nickles for eight cents and another bought them for a dime.  I'd buy three with my allowance, ride three miles on my bike, and make six cents.  I'd buy a bag of wise potato chips for 5 cents and still have my allowance.  My Uncle gave me thirty cents for each pre-1965 quarter I'd find, so I'd offer my friends 27 cents.  My record for converting them was eight quarters at a time. I made enough to buy an RC Cola, chips, and a 12-cent comic. 

It doesn't sound like much, but I'd sometimes convert my 25-cent allowance into three 12-cent comics and two or three 5-cent bags of chips. 

And today, most people barely bend over to pick up lost change on the side walk…

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 1/4/2024 at 3:45 PM, Robot Man said:

And today, most people barely bend over to pick up lost change on the side walk…

If I find a quarter, I have to leave 7 cents where I found it for taxes and I seldom carry exact change so it's just too much or a hassle.

[jimbo_7071]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:25 PM, AndyFish said:

My

 . . .  a collapse of prices would mean a Tec #27 might sell for $500k instead of $4M but I agree with all the sentiments here, comics are unique from stamps and coins because of the emotional connection we collectors have to them.

This is where I have to take issue. Why do you believe that coin and stamp collectors are any less emotionally attached to their collectibles?

Our emotional attachment has a lot to do with childhood memories of buying comics off of the rack, taking them home and reading them, and so on.

I would posit that many stamp and coin collectors also have an emotional attachment to their collectibles.

What about the kid who spent his Saturday mornings sitting at his kitchen table with his grandfather—a grandfather who died long ago—sorting through piles of wheat pennies looking for the rare ones to fill up his coin books? You don't think that kid would have an emotional attachment to his hobby?

What about the kid who went to stamp shows with his mom every weekend looking for the stamps he needed to fill up his stamp album and who ran to meet the mail carrier every day to see if any letters arrived with cool, new stamps? You don't think that kid would have an emotional attachment to his hobby?

Whether comic collectors are attached to their comics isn't the question. The question is, what will the landscape look like when those collectors are ready to exit the hobby? The few comic collectors who started collecting and preserving back issues in the '40s, '50s, and early '60s—mostly Silent Generation guys and a few of the oldest Boomers—did exceptionally well because they enjoyed a very favorable climate when they exited the hobby. For every 20 Silents exiting the hobby in the '80s and '90s, there were probably 100 Boomers competing for their books. (I don't know the actual numbers, but I don't think I'm too far off.) Guys who held their books longer did even better because even though the hobby wasn't necessarily growing after the '90s, the prospective buyers continued to accumulate more wealth.

You still have even wealthier Boomers buying books from each other, but those guys won't be in the hobby forever. If the Gen-Xers prove to be as good at accumulating wealth as their parents, then the hobby should remain healthy for a while, but you won't see a 5:1 ratio of buyers to sellers like you did a generation ago; you might see a 1:1 ratio.

And what about 20–30 years from now? If you have 100,000 Gen-Xers exiting the hobby over a 10-year period, will you have 100,000 Millennials and Zoomers lining up to buy their books? I don't think so. Comic books weren't as important to those generations. They weren't riding their bikes to the corner store every day to see whether there were any cool new comics on the spinner rack. I'm sure there will be some passionate collectors—there will be some who adopted the hobby from their parents or who fell into collecting at a young age—but I don't think that the numbers will be there.

Everything comes down to demographics. When I hear the argument that comic collectors are more passionate than other collectors, it harks back to the old mantra of "what I collect is cool, what you collect sucks." Other hobbies didn't experience a downturn because the collectors weren't passionate; they experienced a downturn because the numbers weren't there: there weren't enough younger collectors buying from the older collectors who were exiting the hobby.

Edited January 5 by jimbo_7071

[PopKulture]

On 1/5/2024 at 10:32 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

This is where I have to take issue. Why do you believe that coin and stamp collectors are any less emotionally attached to their collectibles?

Our emotional attachment has a lot to do with childhood memories of buying comics off of the rack, taking them home and reading them, and so on.

I would posit that many stamp and coin collectors also have an emotional attachment to their collectibles.

What about the kid who spent his Saturday morning sitting at his kitchen table with his grandfather—a grandfather who died long ago—sorting through piles of wheat pennies looking for the rare ones to fill up his coin books? You don't think that kid would have an emotional attachment to his hobby?

What about the kid who went to stamp shows with his mom every weekend looking for the stamps he needed to fill up his stamp album and who ran to meet the mail carrier every day to see if any letters arrived with cool, new stamps? You don't think that kid would have an emotional attachment to his hobby?

Whether comic collectors are attached to their comics isn't the question. The question is, what will the landscape look like when those collectors are ready to exit the hobby? The few comic collectors who started collecting and preserving back issues in the '40s, '50s, and early '60s—mostly Silent Generation guys and a few of the oldest Boomers—did exceptionally well because they enjoyed a very favorable climate when they exited the hobby. For every 20 Silents exiting the hobby in the '80s and '90s, there were probably 100 Boomers competing for their books. (I don't know the actual numbers, but I don't think I'm too far off.) Guys who held their books longer did even better because even though the hobby wasn't necessarily growing after the '90s, the prospective buyers continued to accumulate more wealth.

You still have even wealthier Boomers buying books from each other, but those guys won't be in the hobby forever. If the Gen-Xers prove to be as good at accumulating wealth as their parents, then the hobby should remain healthy for a while, but you won't see a 5:1 ratio of buyers to sellers like you did a generation ago; you might see a 1:1 ratio.

And what about 20–30 years from now? If you have 100,000 Gen-Xers exiting the hobby over a 10-year period, will you have 100,000 Millennials and Zoomers lining up to buy their books? I don't think so. Comic books weren't as important to those generations. They weren't riding their bikes to the corner store every day to see whether there were any cool new comics on the spinner rack. I'm sure there will be some passionate collectors—there will be some who adopted the hobby from their parents or who fell into collecting at a young age—but I don't think that the numbers will be there.

Everything comes down to demographics. When I hear the argument that comic collectors are more passionate than other collectors, it harks back to the old mantra of "what I collect is cool, what you collect sucks." Those other hobbies didn't experience a downturn because the collectors weren't passionate; they experienced a downturn because the numbers weren't there: there weren't enough younger collectors buying from the older collectors who were exiting the hobby.

This is spot on. 

Eventually, it’s just a matter of demographics. 

[1950's war comics]

coins are so much more liquid to sell than comic books which makes them much more desirable to collect

take your coin collection to a dealer right now and he will buy every single coin you have , there will be zero instances of an individual coin you paid $5.00 for being worth only a dime as it is with comic books

take your comic collection to a dealer right now and he will likely only be interested in the keys and even at that he will likely offer only 60% of the value tops , he will not even be interested in going thru runs of comics and offering prices for them individually - he will only offer a bundle price and that will likely be 10 cents on the dollar

when selling your coin collection to a dealer there will be zero instances of part of your collection being worth only 10 cents on the dollar as it is with comics

[seanlinc]

On 1/7/2024 at 3:30 AM, 1950's war comics said:

coins are so much more liquid to sell than comic books which makes them much more desirable to collect

take your coin collection to a dealer right now and he will buy every single coin you have , there will be zero instances of an individual coin you paid $5.00 for being worth only a dime as it is with comic books

take your comic collection to a dealer right now and he will likely only be interested in the keys and even at that he will likely offer only 60% of the value tops , he will not even be interested in going thru runs of comics and offering prices for them individually - he will only offer a bundle price and that will likely be 10 cents on the dollar

when selling your coin collection to a dealer there will be zero instances of part of your collection being worth only 10 cents on the dollar as it is with comics

Ahh man having spent about 15 years or so messing around with coins I'll tell you coin dealers will definitely try to rip you off. If you show up at a coin shop with a coin collection and not alot of knowledge you would be lucky if the offer is more then 10% of the value. There's a big difference between collector coins and bullion coins/bars and such, the bullion coins will go up and down based on the metal price but collector coins could easily tank if the base of collectors goes down.

[1950's war comics]

On 1/7/2024 at 9:06 AM, seanlinc said:

Ahh man having spent about 15 years or so messing around with coins I'll tell you coin dealers will definitely try to rip you off. If you show up at a coin shop with a coin collection and not alot of knowledge you would be lucky if the offer is more then 10% of the value. There's a big difference between collector coins and bullion coins/bars and such, the bullion coins will go up and down based on the metal price but collector coins could easily tank if the base of collectors goes down.

well i guess i will agree that the 100% completely unknowledgeable coin collector could get ripped off just like an unscrupulous comic dealer could rip off an unsuspecting customer by giving them 50 cents for their ASM 129 

Edited January 7 by 1950's war comics

[buttock]

On 1/1/2024 at 5:41 PM, Dr. Balls said:

There's also the factor that Doctors and healthcare providers are actively fleecing every single patient that comes through the door. Healthcare is expensive, but not for the reasons people think. You go for your yearly and the cost is $250. The doctor asks you if you are sleeping ok? He charges you another $50 to ask that question. Are you sluggish in the morning? Another $80. And so on. Don't believe me? Ask for an itemized bill - and savor the flavor of getting bent over by your "family" doctor for more than a rectal exam.

All those prescription commercials on Hulu? Brainwashing the American public into thinking that they need to be constantly medicated - and you need to go to your doctor to get a script. Do you experience toe pain more than once a year? You need Conchivectorax! Taken once daily! See your doctor! Barf. A once-respected industry now hell bent on keeping everyone sick and promoting over-medicating yourself to be "well". I saw an ad this past week for arthritis pain targeting 20-30 years olds. That's right, those poor 20 year olds with their arthritis pain keeping them from living their best life. 

Healthcare is expensive because people have been manipulated by fear tactics of several industries to think they are going to die on the first sign of toe pain, and they rush to overload the hospital with inane requests and mild symptoms - either paying all these exorbitant fees directly with their own money, or indirectly with increased health insurance premiums.

 

You should stick to posting about comics. 

[shadroch]

On 1/7/2024 at 1:30 AM, 1950's war comics said:

coins are so much more liquid to sell than comic books which makes them much more desirable to collect

take your coin collection to a dealer right now and he will buy every single coin you have , there will be zero instances of an individual coin you paid $5.00 for being worth only a dime as it is with comic books

take your comic collection to a dealer right now and he will likely only be interested in the keys and even at that he will likely offer only 60% of the value tops , he will not even be interested in going thru runs of comics and offering prices for them individually - he will only offer a bundle price and that will likely be 10 cents on the dollar

when selling your coin collection to a dealer there will be zero instances of part of your collection being worth only 10 cents on the dollar as it is with comics

That's silly.  Thousands of coins have been sold at prices where the buyer is now profoundly underwater.  Some Morgans sold for six figures in the 1990s and now sell for a fraction of that.    My Uncle bought many coins in the early 1970s that he lost significant money on.  I still have some of the Jefferson nickles with floating adams apple that were supposed to be the next huge thing.

If you take your coins into almost any shop, they'll offer you the melt price for your coins., and not check for better dates until they already bought them.

[1950's war comics]

On 1/7/2024 at 12:35 PM, shadroch said:

 

If you take your coins into almost any shop, they'll offer you the melt price for your coins., 

but that is why i mentioned a complete Lincoln cent collection as the example, no melt price...

a decent coin shop will go thru each and every every date and mint (at least up till the 1930's)

[BA773]

On 3/15/2022 at 3:45 PM, Bookery said:

Thought this might be of interest... found an old CGC post from April, 1931 by boardie "dimesgalore":

"It's ludicrous to believe that dime novels will ever lose value.  Many of these were published 50-60 years ago, and are now more collectible than ever.  The stock market crash of 18 months ago not only didn't kill interest in these hot commodities, but despite this so-called Depression, values have actually risen.  Some "key" issues can fetch $20-$30.  Though these are out of reach for the average collector, there is still plenty of room for new young collectors to enter the market, as plenty of turn-of-the-century issues can be had for under $1.  Dime novel heroes will never go out of style.  Names like Buffalo Bill Jr., Deadwood *ick, Nick Carter, Liberty Boys, Nat Pinkerton, Frank Merriwell, Young King Brady, and Andy Grant will live on forever.  Some of these characters have reached cult status in movies, and now that we've had the new sound films for the past couple of years, one can only imagine what exciting new film features will be made from these beloved characters.  There are those who say that technology may someday reach the point where these burgeoning film icons may even be in color!"

But... more important than the fascinating stories and heroes, one must not forget the crucial importance of the cover art.  As time goes by, this style of art will only grow in appreciation.  Today's art simply doesn't compare.  Collectors will always admire and pay dearly for classic cover art like this..."

 

If i could i would buy this book

[BA773]

On 1/3/2024 at 10:25 PM, AndyFish said:

My

I started reading comics in the early to mid 70s, I started collecting them in the late 70s early 80s beginning with BATMAN and DETECTIVE COMICS-  first I was buying SILVER age copies in really excellent condition and at the flea market I would get them at they'd be about $1-$3 a piece.  I remember vividly the older comic book collectors who would be hanging around telling my I was throwing my money away by buying junk and I should focus solely on Golden Age Comics.   I never even saw a Golden Age Comic until about 1980 when my local shop had a BATMAN #14 in VG shape for $50-- he had it displayed behind the register and I thought it was a coloring book at first because it was so much bigger than comics I was familiar with.   He took it down and leafed through it and I recognized one of the stories from that great red Batman Treasury from 1974.   I had him put it aside and I scrambled to come up with the $50.   A few months later he had a DETECTIVE COMICS #34 in VG/F for $90 but when I tried to buy it (on a Sunday and the owner was off) the guy working the counter said "a kid like you shouldn't be spending $90 on a funny book".  But buy it I did and it became a total obsession buying Golden Age Comics.   All along the way collectors would chastise me when I'd buy a 60s comic in really nice condition.

Fast forward to the mid 80s and professors at SVA in New York were telling me not to get into comics professionally because the industry would collapse and be gone in the next ten years.

Well today I've been working full time in comics for 30 years now, my collection is worth well over 1.5 Million (mostly gold) and I continue to buy golden age comics but not for the prices I was, that's for sure.

My long way of saying naysayers and doom predictors have been a big chunk of the comics market for as long as I can remember, and if anything it means a collapse of prices would mean a Tec #27 might sell for $500k instead of $4M but I agree with all the sentiments here, comics are unique from stamps and coins because of the emotional connection we collectors have to them.

[1950's war comics]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:25 PM, AndyFish said:

My

I started reading comics in the early to mid 70s, I started collecting them in the late 70s early 80s beginning with BATMAN and DETECTIVE COMICS-  first I was buying SILVER age copies in really excellent condition and at the flea market I would get them at they'd be about $1-$3 a piece.  I remember vividly the older comic book collectors who would be hanging around telling my I was throwing my money away by buying junk and I should focus solely on Golden Age Comics.   I never even saw a Golden Age Comic until about 1980 when my local shop had a BATMAN #14 in VG shape for $50-- he had it displayed behind the register and I thought it was a coloring book at first because it was so much bigger than comics I was familiar with.   He took it down and leafed through it and I recognized one of the stories from that great red Batman Treasury from 1974.   I had him put it aside and I scrambled to come up with the $50.   A few months later he had a DETECTIVE COMICS #34 in VG/F for $90 but when I tried to buy it (on a Sunday and the owner was off) the guy working the counter said "a kid like you shouldn't be spending $90 on a funny book".  But buy it I did and it became a total obsession buying Golden Age Comics.   All along the way collectors would chastise me when I'd buy a 60s comic in really nice condition.

Fast forward to the mid 80s and professors at SVA in New York were telling me not to get into comics professionally because the industry would collapse and be gone in the next ten years.

Well today I've been working full time in comics for 30 years now, my collection is worth well over 1.5 Million (mostly gold) and I continue to buy golden age comics but not for the prices I was, that's for sure.

My long way of saying naysayers and doom predictors have been a big chunk of the comics market for as long as I can remember, and if anything it means a collapse of prices would mean a Tec #27 might sell for $500k instead of $4M but I agree with all the sentiments here, comics are unique from stamps and coins because of the emotional connection we collectors have to them.

great post ... as a young teen i pulled 20 cent marvels off the rack but all i ever wanted was Golden AGe ! dreamed of Golden age and now i can afford them

i have absolutely zero desire to get back any of the Bronze age comic of my youth again

[Telegan]

On 1/4/2024 at 3:45 PM, Robot Man said:

And today, most people barely bend over to pick up lost change on the side walk…

If I bend over, I may never get back up again, so the ROI just isn't there.

[William-James88]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:25 PM, AndyFish said:

My long way of saying naysayers and doom predictors have been a big chunk of the comics market for as long as I can remember, and if anything it means a collapse of prices would mean a Tec #27 might sell for $500k instead of $4M but I agree with all the sentiments here, comics are unique from stamps and coins because of the emotional connection we collectors have to them.

As someone who had an emotional connection to my stamp collection, I find that rather dismissive. It just so happens that the comics you bought kept having demand greater than supply throughout the years and you are using that causality to mean something else. The same can't be said for collectors who had an emotional connection to Miller's Daredevil or Byrne's X-men, which were at a time selling for more than they do now when taking inflation into account. Also, tons of kids have had emotional connections to their sports cards over the years and yet that didn't stop a crash in that market. I remember being very attached to my pokemon cards and my hockey cards in the 90s, all purchased at the same time. Had I kept my pokemon cards in great condition, they'd be worth a nice sum today while my hockey cards are not worth the paper they are printed on.

It's a boring answer but in the end it's all about supply and demand. Some of the demand may be based on an emotional connection but if there is another source for sustained demand (like perceived value, which we see with precious metals)  then that's what will stop comics from collapsing. If all generations to come keep thinking/believing that Spidey 194 and 300 will keep going up in value, making the demand greater than the supply, then that book won't collapse, even though there may be no emotional connection to it.

Edited January 8 by William-James88

[BraveDave]

Most record prices for truly exceptional coins were hit in the past three years.  
Comics and cards went through crashes already - but always on the speculative / not-scarce segments. Cards crash in the 90s didn’t hit the Wagners and Mantles… and they have still done well since. You will find persistent doomsayers for every type of asset: houses, stocks, bonds, coins, cars, comics, instruments, art… same tired arguments of demographic or technological shifts causing everyone to abandon the item/hobby.

I saw the speculative bubble correcting over the past couple years - no surprise it hit a) the most hyped segments hardest and b) hit every collectible, nothing to do with comics specifically.

If someone thinks the entire market will collapse, then they can sell all their books and move on. 

In my opinion books currently available in the dozens or hundreds today, with some persistent cultural/artistic/industry impact… are pretty safe long-term bets.

 

[PopKulture]

On 1/8/2024 at 2:32 PM, BraveDave said:

Most record prices for truly exceptional coins were hit in the past three years.  
Comics and cards went through crashes already - but always on the speculative / not-scarce segments. Cards crash in the 90s didn’t hit the Wagners and Mantles… and they have still done well since. You will find persistent doomsayers for every type of asset: houses, stocks, bonds, coins, cars, comics, instruments, art… same tired arguments of demographic or technological shifts causing everyone to abandon the item/hobby.

I saw the speculative bubble correcting over the past couple years - no surprise it hit a) the most hyped segments hardest and b) hit every collectible, nothing to do with comics specifically.

If someone thinks the entire market will collapse, then they can sell all their books and move on. 

In my opinion books currently available in the dozens or hundreds today, with some persistent cultural/artistic/industry impact… are pretty safe long-term bets.

 

You’re dismissing the reality that many fields of collecting have crashed and won’t likely ever come back: Hummels, souvenir spoons, Jim Beam bottles, toy soldiers, magazine ads, collector’s plates, depression glass, Shawnee pottery - along with most dolls, most Beanie Babies, most Happy Meal toys, most Little Golden books, most old newspapers, most sheet music - the list goes on and on. You might find the demographic argument “tired” but that doesn’t diminish its reality.

Sure, the trillionaire who corners the world market on computer-generated beef might someday buy the Church copy of Superman 1 for $100,000,000 or whatever because money means nothing to them, but if you think enough kids who are in diapers right now who will never buy a comic off a spinner rack will somehow spend money en masse on relics from their grandparents heyday, then your opinion is based mostly on faith. 

Even within comics themselves, we’ve seen the collapse of numerous segments - Classics Illustrated anyone? Average Harvey comics sell now for less than forty years ago, so do Roy Rogers and Johnny Mack Brown. Run collectors are fewer and fewer. There are many other examples. 

Postcards are dying as we speak. Shows that were robust even ten years ago are now withering. You’ll barely see anyone without grey hair. There was a price surge when those people cashed out their IRA’s and a few new people came into the hobby out of curiosity (and soon left). As prices rose, resistance set in, then collectors literally started dying off, and prices plummeted except for the dealers who refuse to accept the reality and basically travel from show to show much like a museum.

Guess what I haven’t seen at those shows recently? Kids. Kids that never received nor sent a postcard. Those same kids never bought a comic off a spinner rack, nor will their kids. What’s going to happen to grandma and grandpa’s shoeboxes of postcards from their trips to Florida or the Petrified Forest? Those kids will throw them in the recycling bin. Even the estate sale hucksters will mostly fail to get $10 for the box unless there’s a couple Tuck Halloween cards in there.

Edited January 8 by PopKulture

[William-James88]

I didn't even know Postcards were a collectible market.