oops... 5 5

[kav]

On 4/21/2022 at 6:57 PM, Bluemedgroup said:

That indeed is true.  But two things to blame. 

1.  Submission rate has multiplied exponentially.  I wouldn't be surprised compared to 5 years ago that they are doing 5x the amount of books. 

2. They hired a bunch on new green graders to keep up with the demand.  

You also have to consider the nature of the errors.  Mislabeling is one thing.  Mistaking 8 reprints for the original is egregious.  I mean if a plane manufacturer forgot the wings you wouldnt just say well mistakes happen the overall error rate is probably low.

[Sigur Ros]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:51 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

I respectfully disagree, especially if they came from the same submission. Because to exonerate the submitter/seller, that would mean either someone bought 8 copies of this book for around $3-5 each, submitted them, got them back and thought, wow! I hit the lottery! Or they paid somewhere between $4,000-8,000 (or more) for 8 copies of a facsimile without realizing what they were spending that money on and submitted them as real. Either scenario seems unlikely.

I was talking about the seller.

Could simply be that this seller unknowingly bought a reprint and unknowingly sold it.

Only thing we know for sure is that CGC totally screwed up numerous copies of this book.

[jcjames]

In Nursing school they used to paraphrase Voltaire, "Perfection is the enemy of the really good, but then again how many dropped babies are acceptable?"

Edited April 22, 2022 by jcjames

[Jesse-Lee]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:05 PM, Sigur Ros said:

I was talking about the seller.

Could simply be that this seller unknowingly bought a reprint and unknowingly sold it.

Only thing we know for sure is that CGC totally screwed up numerous copies of this book.

Ah yeah, I agree with that - but in this case, it looks like it was 8 consecutive copies/submissions likely to the same submitter. Absolutely I could see it happening if some poor guy bought a scam copy on eBay for like $500 and submitted that one copy thinking it was the real deal, and then got it back mislabeled. But if it's 8 copies to one submitter like it seems in this case, then yeah, it was a bad mistake by CGC but the submitter took big advantage of that mistake, and that's on them.

[ExNihilo]

On 4/21/2022 at 5:15 PM, Domo Arigato said:

I realize it's a "first appearance" of a new Spider-Man (and no offense to those who collect this sort of thing....I'm sure it's a lovely book).

But people are paying $3,000+ for this book in CGC 9.8 grade? 

I wonder what's going to happen when the first 9.9 or 10.0 shows up. 

 

This is pure speculation on my part, but to me this is a 1st appearance on the level of Venom and Wolverine.  And by that I mean it's lightning in a bottle.  It's the biggest 1st appearance of its generation in the same way Wolverine is the iconic Bronze Age 1st appearance, and Venom is the iconic Copper Age 1st appearance (yes, there's TMNT, but that's on a whole other level).  People gravitate towards Miles and his popularity has skyrocketed.  I don't see his popularity waning and I expect we'll look back 30 years from now the same way we see ASM300 today as a must have book for any collector.  The biggest difference is that ASM300 took decades to approach the $3k mark while UF4 has taken only a few years.  I can't imagine there's much more room for growth, but I also don't see this book coming down in price.  Again, that's just my .

[kav]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:06 PM, jcjames said:

In Nursing school they used to paraphrase Voltaire, "Perfection is the enemy of the really good, but then again how many dropped babies are acceptable?"

in law they use the Hand rule-if the burden to provide safety is greater than the probability times the liability then there is no negligence unless there is strict negligence that applies.
The example is given of bicycles-thousands of injuries and deaths per year on bikes-to create a safe bike with pads and shields and whatnot would make the price so large there would be no bikes.  so society accepts the deaths and injuries.

[Bluemedgroup]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:15 PM, ExNihilo said:

This is pure speculation on my part, but to me this is a 1st appearance on the level of Venom and Wolverine.  And by that I mean it's lightning in a bottle.  It's the biggest 1st appearance of its generation in the same way Wolverine is the iconic Bronze Age 1st appearance, and Venom is the iconic Copper Age 1st appearance (yes, there's TMNT, but that's on a whole other level).  People gravitate towards Miles and his popularity has skyrocketed.  I don't see his popularity waning and I expect we'll look back 30 years from now the same way we see ASM300 today as a must have book for any collector.  The biggest difference is that ASM300 took decades to approach the $3k mark while UF4 has taken only a few years.  I can't imagine there's much more room for growth, but I also don't see this book coming down in price.  Again, that's just my .

He for sure will be the next generation's Peter Parker. No doubt. 

I've heard that if you ask grade school kids who Spider-man is? Some will say PP, some will say MM.  

[Bluemedgroup]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:06 PM, jcjames said:

In Nursing school they used to paraphrase Voltaire, "Perfection is the enemy of the really good, but then again how many dropped babies are acceptable?"

No joke.  During medical school I almost dropped a baby.  

GPA 4,3,0 meaning 4th pregnancy, 3 births thus far, 0 abortus.  Got her in the ready position to push. I was catching.   

She pushed one time.  Seriously one time and the baby came flying out.  Was totally unprepared and almost dropped the slippery booger.  

And that's why I now do anesthesia.  

[Domo Arigato]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:15 PM, ExNihilo said:

This is pure speculation on my part, but to me this is a 1st appearance on the level of Venom and Wolverine.  And by that I mean it's lightning in a bottle.  It's the biggest 1st appearance of its generation in the same way Wolverine is the iconic Bronze Age 1st appearance, and Venom is the iconic Copper Age 1st appearance...

I understand that.

But I also understand that there are 400 more copies of Ultimate Fallout #4 in CGC 9.8 grade than there are of Incredible Hulk #181 in CGC 9.9.......9.8.......9.6......9.4........9.2.......and 9.0.......combined. 

 

[kav]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:25 PM, Bluemedgroup said:

the baby came flying out.

could have been baby Kal-El.

[Galen130]

On 4/21/2022 at 8:28 PM, kav said:

could have been baby Kal-El.

[kav]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:29 PM, Galen130 said:

its possible! 

[Galen130]

On 4/21/2022 at 8:31 PM, kav said:

its possible! 

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:25 PM, Bluemedgroup said:

She pushed one time.  Seriously one time and the baby came flying out.  Was totally unprepared and almost dropped the slippery booger.  

On 4/21/2022 at 9:28 PM, kav said:

could have been baby Kal-El.

[wombat]

The seller/submitters actions are completely separate from CGC incompetence. I don't think anyone is remotely considering "giving a pass" to people knowingly doing bad things. But we rely on CGC to catch these things weather intentional or not.  

[kav]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:33 PM, wombat said:

The seller/submitters actions are completely separate from CGC incompetence. I don't think anyone is remotely considering "giving a pass" to people knowingly doing bad things. But we rely on CGC to catch these things weather intentional or not.  

@Comics4All
Sentince?

[MR SigS]

Sorry this is late.

On 4/21/2022 at 10:06 AM, Galen130 said:

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

 

On 4/21/2022 at 11:04 AM, Axe Elf said:

What insufficiently_thoughtful_person said that?

That would mean that everything possible is true, which is obvious nonsense.

Holmes [Doyle] is talking about the evidence at hand. If person B kills person A, it is impossible for persons C through Z, or any thing to have done it, because person B did- However improbable it may seem (without dipping into Sci Fi and alternate realities etc.).

He's all about the details and finding out why it was impossible for the others to have done it

It's just a clever way of referring to the process of elimination.

[Jesse-Lee]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:26 PM, Domo Arigato said:

I understand that.

But I also understand that there are 400 more copies of Ultimate Fallout #4 in CGC 9.8 grade than there are of Incredible Hulk #181 in CGC 9.9.......9.8.......9.6......9.4........9.2.......and 9.0.......combined. 

 

I couldn't find the Hulk 181 print run estimates, but I did find estimates for the time-frame of ASM 300 (which has a 9.8 that sells for around $5k). Estimates on that would be around 275,000-285,000: https://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/amazingspiderman.html

The estimated print run for all first print Ultimate Fallout 4 copies (cover A plus the variant) is around 93,000 copies: https://www.comichron.com/faq/ultimatefallout4sales.html

So just the amount printed of UF4 is less than half of ASM 300. ASM copies in the 1960s were in the 300K range printed per issue. Even if you estimate 1/3 of that for Hulk 181, that's still more copies printed than UF4. Of course you have to consider that people in the 60s didn't take care of their comics compared to people in the 2010s, but still, even a 4.0 181 sells for higher than a 9.8 UF4.

Miles has a lot of future potential. And I've noted before that most heroes are known by their hero name - Batman, Spider-Man, Superman. People know who their alter-ego is of course, but they're not often marketed as Bruce Wayne or Clark Kent. Miles is often marketed as "Miles Morales: Spider-man." There's a new generation who will connect to that marketing and connect to Miles as an Afro-Latino icon. That all has big potential down the road.

[Axe Elf]

On 4/21/2022 at 9:50 PM, MR SigS said:

Sorry this is late.

 

Holmes [Doyle] is talking about the evidence at hand. If person B kills person A, it is impossible for persons C through Z, or any thing to have done it, because person B did- However improbable it may seem (without dipping into Sci Fi and alternate realities etc.).

He's all about the details and finding out why it was impossible for the others to have done it

It's just a clever way of referring to the process of elimination.

It's probably not worth an in-depth discussion, but I really don't find it all that clever.  It is basically only true when you have a finite set of alternatives, and you can determine that at least one of them is true, and you can also determine that all but one of them is impossible.

It's just a restatement of the obvious, in that case, and when those conditions aren't met, it isn't even a true statement.

[jcjames]

On 4/21/2022 at 8:00 PM, Axe Elf said:

It's probably not worth an in-depth discussion, but I really don't find it all that clever.  It is basically only true when you have a finite set of alternatives, and you can determine that at least one of them is true, and you can also determine that all but one of them is impossible.

It's just a restatement of the obvious, in that case, and when those conditions aren't met, it isn't even a true statement.

Sooooo.... you're saying it's elementary?

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by jcjames