CGC announces changes to label notations, see what remains? 20 20

[CJ Design]

Just put it on the back...😱

Seriously...notes and designations on the rear of the label...should  also please both the Non-prominent group here & the aesthetic aspect of some other people's needs....maybe not the "Prominent Members" though.

[dena]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:31 PM, CGC Mike said:

I have e-mailed Matt about this, and he has contacted the group to correct this.  Hopefully, they get it fixed ASAP.  

This is a function of security that keeps our sites from being scraped for data. These throttling rules are different depending on the role of the site visitor. The rules are based on the number of lookups done in a certain period of time. A logged in user will have more lenient rules associated with their account.

If a logged in user is consistently running up against the limit, we'd like to understand how they are using the tool before those rules are adjusted. For example, a user recently reported the same issue and, after chatting, I found that the user was looking up every item on his submission to get grading results. He was not aware that he had access to grades on the submission tracking page. 

If you are a user who is logged in and consistently running up against the limit, let me know how you are using the tool so we can make an informed decision about how to proceed. If we can avoid it, we don't want to sacrifice security to open the door for harvesting data. With that said, if adjusting the throttling limits is the only solution, we are not against it.

[Roger66]

IF this horrid policy goes down - I will simply copy, paste and print the graders' notes and attach to every CGC book I offer to sell and trade.  This new policy creates an ethical if not moral conundrum I believe by requiring more vigilance on the part of all buyers.  It is very poor business practice when a new shift in policy can easily lead to deception, disappointment and deceit.    This was not carefully thought through by those in charge. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Roger66

[greggy]

On 5/26/2022 at 9:31 AM, CGC Mike said:

I have e-mailed Matt about this, and he has contacted the group to correct this.  Hopefully, they get it fixed ASAP.  

I just use my VPN to bypass it but I don't really have a need to use it anymore.

In the past when I submitted under Joeypost's account, I used it to just check on the grades so I didn't have to harass him or CGC.

xoxo

greggy

[Callaway29]

On 5/25/2022 at 11:37 AM, Tnexus said:

This is just another shameless cash grab to get people to buy their now near useless membership.

I didn't read all 6 pages, apologies if this is duplicative...

I see this as a 2-part cash grab. 1.) What you stated above and 2) To encourage more resubs (i.e. resubs of books with these defects with the intent to resell to an uninformed buyer at a higher price).

Seriously, making money multiple times from the same book is a big part of their business model at this point.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Callaway29

[ExNihilo]

On 5/26/2022 at 10:22 AM, Roger66 said:

IF this horrid policy goes down - I will simply copy, paste and print the label notes and attach to every CGC book I offer to sell and trade.  This new policy creates an ethical if not moral conundrum I believe by requiring more vigilance on the part of all buyers.  It is very poor business practice when a new shift in policy can easily lead to deception, disappointment and deceit.    This was not carefully thought through by those in charge. 

I think for sellers, this is more of a nuisance as you now would seek to copy/paste, provide graders notes.  I imagine a lot of sellers won't do this and so the onus will be on buyers to look up the notes.  That would require signing up for a paid account simply to look up notes on 10 books of which you might only buy one.  Frankly, that's just an added cost for a benefit I'm rarely going to use.  I'd honestly rather pay a fellow boardie $2 to look it up for me than line CGC's pockets with an annual subscription.

[LSL]

Here is an idea : maybe CGC could put all the grader's notes on the back of the slabs.  It would not clutter the front and would be an improvement in the accessibility to the information the submitter is paying for as opposed to a diminishment

[CGC Mike]

We want to provide insight into our decision to remove certain defects from the label text. To begin with, there are over 100 different defects that can be present on a comic; most of them are not disclosed on the label, including many that are not visible on a comic through the holder. Removing certain defects from our label is not unprecedented. Over the years we have included (and eventually removed) the following defects on the label, many of which affect a comic’s interior and often impact grade:

 

Rusty staples

Interior tears

Stamp on cover

Writing on cover or interior

Manufactured with only one staple

Centerfolds detached below 5.5

Marvel chipping

Heavy tanning interior cover

Partial staple detachments

Interior stains

Interior pieces missing that do not affect story/ad

Tape stains

 

Among the 12 additional defects we are removing, eight of them (and sometimes all but Siamese pages) are visible when viewing a comic book in the holder. Some rarely turn up, particularly Siamese pages, lamination and miscuts. The vast majority of books that exhibit these defects are Golden and Silver Age comics.  

 

Oftentimes, some of these defects are slightly less severe but do not go on the label. Such as a spine that is 98% split. If a spine was still attached in one area, no matter how small it was, we did not put it on the label. This is also true if a cover was detached from one staple and barely hanging on to the other staple; virtually detached, but not 100%. We only listed missing parts from a cover if it was one piece that constituted 1/3 or more of the cover; even if paper missing from several areas of the cover cumulatively totaled more than 1/3, that wouldn’t go on the label. If Siamese pages are torn apart, that is not mentioned on the label.

 

Some say they now have to check notes on every comic book before they buy. We recognize that many collectors hate certain defects. But those defects can vary from collector to collector, and many of those defects are among the 100 that weren’t listed on our label before this change. All defects, regardless of whether they are listed on our label or not, are factored into every grade. The defects that have been removed from the label will continue to be listed in the grader notes. If a book does not appear to match the grade it has been given, that would give reason to check the grader notes. We are working on implementing a QR code on the label to ease the process of note checking.

 

To be clear, no changes have been made to qualified, restored or conserved label text. That remains exactly the same, and we have no intention of changing that.

 

Matt Nelson
 

[Yorick]

On 5/25/2022 at 12:15 PM, CJ Design said:

I have an insider sneak peak at the "New" Labels...

 

Dylan Grade?

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:18 PM, dena said:

This is a function of security that keeps our sites from being scraped for data. These throttling rules are different depending on the role of the site visitor. The rules are based on the number of lookups done in a certain period of time. A logged in user will have more lenient rules associated with their account.

If a logged in user is consistently running up against the limit, we'd like to understand how they are using the tool before those rules are adjusted. For example, a user recently reported the same issue and, after chatting, I found that the user was looking up every item on his submission to get grading results. He was not aware that he had access to grades on the submission tracking page. 

If you are a user who is logged in and consistently running up against the limit, let me know how you are using the tool so we can make an informed decision about how to proceed. If we can avoid it, we don't want to sacrifice security to open the door for harvesting data. With that said, if adjusting the throttling limits is the only solution, we are not against it.

Thank you for the clarification.  

[KCOComics]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:55 PM, CGC Mike said:

We want to provide insight into our decision to remove certain defects from the label text. To begin with, there are over 100 different defects that can be present on a comic; most of them are not disclosed on the label, including many that are not visible on a comic through the holder. Removing certain defects from our label is not unprecedented. Over the years we have included (and eventually removed) the following defects on the label, many of which affect a comic’s interior and often impact grade:

 

Rusty staples

Interior tears

Stamp on cover

Writing on cover or interior

Manufactured with only one staple

Miscut

Centerfolds detached below 5.5

Marvel chipping

Heavy tanning interior cover

Partial staple detachments

Interior stains

Interior pieces missing that do not affect story/ad

Tape stains

 

Among the 12 additional defects we are removing, eight of them (and sometimes all but Siamese pages) are visible when viewing a comic book in the holder. Some rarely turn up, particularly Siamese pages, lamination and miscuts. The vast majority of books that exhibit these defects are Golden and Silver Age comics.  

 

Oftentimes, some of these defects are slightly less severe but do not go on the label. such as a spine that is 98% split. If a spine was still attached in one area, no matter how small it was, we did not put it on the label. This is also true if a cover was detached from one staple and barely hanging on to the other staple; virtually detached, but not 100%. We only listed missing parts from a cover if it was one piece that constituted 1/3 or more of the cover; even if paper missing from several areas of the cover cumulatively totaled more than 1/3, that wouldn’t go on the label. If Siamese pages are torn apart, that is not mentioned on the label.

 

Some say they now have to check notes on every comic book before they buy. We recognize that many collectors hate certain defects. But those defects can vary from collector to collector, and many of those defects are among the 100 that weren’t listed on our label before this change. All defects, regardless of whether they are listed on our label or not, are factored into every grade. The defects that have been removed from the label will continue to be listed in the grader notes. If a book does not appear to match the grade it has been given, that would give reason to check the grader notes. We are working on implementing a QR code on the label to ease the process of note checking.

 

To be clear, no changes have been made to qualified, restored or conserved label text. That remains exactly the same, and we have no intention of changing that.

 

Matt Nelson
 

Mike - can you ask Matt how this decision improves anything for collectors. 

He seems to be rationalizing the current inconsistencies in label notes.  But instead of improving the notes, the decision was made to eliminate them. 

How does that improve the experience for his customers? Because the optics of this decision are very poor.

It feels like they are trying to force customers to pay for a membership.

And he doesn't even seem to be arguing that point. 

[jeffreyk]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:00 PM, Figment said:

It identifies the more recently graded books.

Ok..thanks.  I am sure have.some.  

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 5/26/2022 at 12:55 PM, CGC Mike said:

We want to provide insight into our decision to remove certain defects from the label text. To begin with, there are over 100 different defects that can be present on a comic; most of them are not disclosed on the label, including many that are not visible on a comic through the holder. Removing certain defects from our label is not unprecedented. Over the years we have included (and eventually removed) the following defects on the label, many of which affect a comic’s interior and often impact grade:

 

Rusty staples

Interior tears

Stamp on cover

Writing on cover or interior

Manufactured with only one staple

Miscut

Centerfolds detached below 5.5

Marvel chipping

Heavy tanning interior cover

Partial staple detachments

Interior stains

Interior pieces missing that do not affect story/ad

Tape stains

 

Among the 12 additional defects we are removing, eight of them (and sometimes all but Siamese pages) are visible when viewing a comic book in the holder. Some rarely turn up, particularly Siamese pages, lamination and miscuts. The vast majority of books that exhibit these defects are Golden and Silver Age comics.  

 

Oftentimes, some of these defects are slightly less severe but do not go on the label. such as a spine that is 98% split. If a spine was still attached in one area, no matter how small it was, we did not put it on the label. This is also true if a cover was detached from one staple and barely hanging on to the other staple; virtually detached, but not 100%. We only listed missing parts from a cover if it was one piece that constituted 1/3 or more of the cover; even if paper missing from several areas of the cover cumulatively totaled more than 1/3, that wouldn’t go on the label. If Siamese pages are torn apart, that is not mentioned on the label.

 

Some say they now have to check notes on every comic book before they buy. We recognize that many collectors hate certain defects. But those defects can vary from collector to collector, and many of those defects are among the 100 that weren’t listed on our label before this change. All defects, regardless of whether they are listed on our label or not, are factored into every grade. The defects that have been removed from the label will continue to be listed in the grader notes. If a book does not appear to match the grade it has been given, that would give reason to check the grader notes. We are working on implementing a QR code on the label to ease the process of note checking.

 

To be clear, no changes have been made to qualified, restored or conserved label text. That remains exactly the same, and we have no intention of changing that.

 

Matt Nelson
 

I get removing some, again as you stated it has happened in the past. 

One example I just really do not get is the 

Siamese Pages.  

As Matt said it doesn't come up often, but that is the draw to them. They are production error that does not happen that often and definitely should be on the label. 

Especially since they can not be seen from the outside!

This would be like removing Double /  Multiple Cover or Mark Jeweler's / National Diamond Insert .  These are things that definitely have an impact on the value/ desirability.

I have a couple of books that have siamese pages/wraps that I had planned on sending as QC gets fixed, but if they will not note these then that doesn't even make sense.  

This doesn't even bring up several of the completely valid concerns others have over potential misuse of lack of information. 

This change needs to be better thought out before whatever they decide to roll out. Hopefully they will tweak this to alleviate concerns and erosion in trust of CGC. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by onlyweaknesskryptonite
" Deep Thoughts " by Jack Handy

[Dormian]

Can this line be changed

Because CGC members now have free access to Grader Notes, not as many defects will be listed on the certification label.

To say

Because Paid CGC members now have free access to Grader Notes, not as many defects will be listed on the certification label.

There is nothing free if you have to pay to see it.

[ADAMANTIUM]

 How About?? Putting the GRADERS NOTES ON THE LABEL?

 

[D84]

On 5/26/2022 at 1:24 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 How About?? Putting the GRADERS NOTES ON THE LABEL?

 

But that would help collectors make an informed purchase.

[Dormian]

Still waiting to hear from the prominent members of the collecting community who supported this idea? Doesn't look like they are part of this discussion. I am interested in getting their feedback and why it is a good idea

[fast eddie]

Seems like a bad idea to make important information harder to access,,,,,,,,,,, I will be even more careful with my purchases in the future,,,,,, a sad state of affairs to see my childhood hobby turn into such a money grab,,,,,,, I realize things change,,,,,,, but I don't like this trajectory.

[F For Fake]

On 5/25/2022 at 5:43 PM, Domo Arigato said:

Dylan doesn't have to destroy CGC when they're so willing to do it for him.

 

Damn it, I had this meme all ready to go, was hoping no one made the joke yet. Oh well, I'm not going to let it go to waste, but you get the points for getting in first.

[Gonzimodo]

Pretty sweet deal for CGC - "Sure, we've already been paid to inspect, grade, and certify this book.  And now everyone who potentially wants to buy it also has to pay us to see what that grade really means."