C2E2 Variant Drama 24 24

[Gary Strange]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

Ok if I’m reading this correct, you graded it as you would any book where the cover was added AFTER the manufacturing process. But then you used stray dog 1 as your precedent, even though that extra cover was done DURING the manufacturing process. Not the same thing guys. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Gary Strange

[darkstar]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

This is absolute nonsense. The acetate cover was not part of the manufacturing process on the UF4 facsimile, it is an after-market modification that damages the original book due the addition of the extra staples. CGC should absolutely not be certifying these books with blue labels, all you are doing is effectively signing off on what amounts to a counterfeit. That is someone's art project turned into a commercial venture and CGC signed off on it because the entity doing it is a "company" and not an individual. There is precisely zero point zero percent chance Marvel gave approval to a variant brought to them by a third party that features ANY text that is remotely religious or political. They literally gave up the Punisher logo because of how extensively it has been adopted by bad elements within the military and law enforcement communities, no way are they giving the go ahead for this variant to be sold at conventions. 

[Guardian Comics]

SASB just replaced CPR as the easiest way to make money in this hobby

Staple and submit baby

[Nazirite]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:22 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Positive outlook? Maybe this will crash the variant market?

I doubt it but  🤞🏾 

[jhenry30]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

Is this an officially licensed Marvel book?

[SeniorSurfer]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

 

[Mr Sneeze]

Remember, use the good acetate, you hoping for a 10 here.

[Tnexus]

On 8/9/2022 at 11:07 AM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

Mike, so just to be clear here, is CGC saying anyone can do this and it be considered a blue label? Would this also apply to adding paperstock to make it a sketch cover?

[Iceman399]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:23 PM, SkOw said:

Exactly. What’s the process for the rest of us to mutilate dollar books and staple on covers?  We all want a piece of the action. 

I asked that question yesterday never got a reply 

[JollyMole]

Is this technically a married cover? It has four staples. The acetate was added to an existing book. Cgc already giving them blue labels seems wrong. 

[Gary Strange]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:26 PM, Tnexus said:

Mike, so just to be clear here, is CGC saying anyone can do this and it be considered a blue label? Would this also apply to adding paperstock to make it a sketch cover?

How hard would it have been to admit that you guys mistook them for manufactured books instead of aftermarket bootlegs and you won’t do it again? Fail. 

[Iceman399]

On 8/8/2022 at 1:08 PM, Iceman399 said:

What are the rules behind this absurdity. 

Can I do my own stapling?

Do I have to have a 'print run'? 

How old of a book can I add a cover too? 

Does it have to be a con exclusive? 

This will open the flood gates. 

@CGC Mike

Let us know or when cgc decides to walk back on this stupidity I'll take that too

Edited August 9, 2022 by Iceman399

[awakeintheashes]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:27 PM, JollyMole said:

Is this technically a married cover? It has four staples. The acetate was added to an existing book. Cgc already giving them blue labels seems wrong. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by awakeintheashes

[ExNihilo]

@CGC Mike Given that the Stray Dogs example was done in conjunction with the publisher and the UF4/Black Flags example was done without the publisher's blessing and was not a new book that was sent to the printers, but instead an existing book that was modified after market release and rebranded as a new book, I highly encourage CGC to re-evaluate the situation.

[Mike's Rack]

It gives new life to all those unsold store variants…

[Lirion]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

So if open a comic book store, buy 1000 copies of the same book, 1000 sheets of acetate, staple the acetate sheets to the book, and scribble in marker on the acetate before sending the books in for grading, they will be graded as if there is nothing wrong? It will simply be marked as "acetate cover"? That's what happened to the UF4. It is an "aftermarket cover" and not part of the manufacturing process. If I buy a truck, install a 3rd party lift kit, exhaust, etc. to it and something goes wrong while in the warranty period for the vehicle, the warranty won't cover those modifications OR any damage caused by those modifications because they are 3rd party modifications and/or not installed by the OEM as part of the manufacturing process. The acetate cover is a 3rd party modification not installed at time of manufacturing which by definition becomes an "aftermarket" part. 

There's so much wrong with this it's not funny. Personally, I'm okay with the process, even the notation of the "acetate cover". What I'm not okay with is that it gets a blue label. If I have a book that has come apart and I carefully restaple it (doing my best to line everything up perfectly), I get a purple label because it's gone through some "restoration". Or if my book is missing a cover and I find a donor book with a cover that I carefully attach to the book, purple label. 

"Universal Label - Blue  This label is given to collectibles that are simply the grade as marked, with no qualifiers or special considerations."  As supposed "experts" in the field and the "gold standard" of grading, even you all must see that a comic book store owner (or anyone other than a qualified professional printer, or even distributer) is not part of the "manufacturing process" stated in the explanation and as such, them adding the acetate cover indeed would be a "qualifier" and is being given "special consideration."

 

[williamblood]

the stray dogs acetate had a different barcode than normal cover, it was orderable through diamond, these blackflags are bootlegs. just admit cgc made a mistake and will correct it. every one makes mistake. @CGC Mike

Edited August 9, 2022 by williamblood

[BoognishRises]

The latest response from CGC is ridiculous. Using the Stray Dogs acetate to compare? That was done officially by Image. This was a "retailer" taking leftover copies of his store variant that nobody wanted and having an acetate wrap stapled onto his books. This was NOT done by or approved by Marvel. This is an individual modifying the book. This 100% is a Green Label by CGC standards. Always has been and always should be. 

I wonder if the fact that Black Flag/Clayton Crain already having their next 2 bootlegged acetate married frankenbooks graded has anything to do with CGC tripling down now? That's right.... check the census. Their next two abominations (releasing soon) have already been graded and BOTH have multiple 9.9's and each have a 10 again. Lol!

This is absolutely ridiculous and EVERYONE here should be furious and should be speaking out and NOT backing down. We spend THOUSANDS (some tens of thousands) to have our books graded with CGC and this is being pulled now?

This will also open the door for this to become common practice and MULTIPLE store variant retailers will now wrap their dead stock crap in acetate (and grade) to dump onto the general public. These retailers bank, CGC banks, and those foolish enough to buy, or not know any better and think it's an official release, get duped.

Edited August 9, 2022 by BoognishRises
Grammar

[BoognishRises]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:25 PM, jhenry30 said:

Is this an officially licensed Marvel book?

Nope. It's a bootlegged book.

[SkOw]

@CGC Mike

I doubt this will matter much but I must say your company’s response is the worst thing I’ve seen in all the years you’ve been operating.  Although I don’t slab a ton of books, I have been fiercely loyal to CGC and never used another company.

When turn around times were long, rates were going up, or notes were being taken off labels, I would stick up for you guys saying “well they are the best, they ARE the gold standard.”  
 

But there is no standing up for this one.  This shows a lack of integrity. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by SkOw