C2E2 Variant Drama 25 25

[deadleg]

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

The Stray Dogs situation was in collaboration with Image Comics, correct? Unless some details have changed, this (UF4 "acetate") is a reprint that was modified after manufacturing and without the consent of Marvel Comics.

[williamblood]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:10 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The Stray Dogs situation was in collaboration with Image Comics, correct? Unless some details have changed, this (UF4 "acetate") is a reprint that was modified after manufacturing and without the consent of Marvel Comics.

it was done by printer, you could order it on diamond

[southern cross]

If it wasn't published by the publisher like this to begin with. 

It's modified and not original.

It's a green label period.

If a impartial third party grading company can't see this then

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

@FFB

 

Thoughts on their official statement?

[Broke as a Joke]

So adding an unauthorized cover to a book with extra staples is now considered part of the "manufacturing" of said book.  Good to know...

[williamblood]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

stray dogs was done by publisher not by a store, these books are damaged and defective, and should be immediately removed from the cgc census. and any future grading of them should be green label

[stynxno]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:04 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

We’re just finding your white knight diatribe a little misplaced....

I'm actually not white knighting. I was responding to @SkOw's comment about a) seeing the comic community as a tight-knit which I don't think it is; I think it's small but full of different kinds of communities with one being the community she's actively curating; b) responding to the idea of how deleting the post is weird; I don't think it is because she's a woman in comics c) stating that her being a woman is one avenue people are attacking her and I realize my writing is probably sloppy so let me go an apologize to SkOw because I didn't want to say he was. And d) I agree that Black Flag and CGC are the issues here - though I think CGC's part in slabbing these books is actually a bigger deal since they call their id numbers "certifications."

[awakeintheashes]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:11 PM, williamblood said:

On 8/9/2022 at 2:10 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The Stray Dogs situation was in collaboration with Image Comics, correct? Unless some details have changed, this (UF4 "acetate") is a reprint that was modified after manufacturing and without the consent of Marvel Comics.

it was done by printer, you could order it on diamond

Yeah, this is just a longer version of last night's sentence. It still ignores the fact that these were done without the publisher's consent, and it leaves open the interpretation that anyone of us could create our own variants and get blue labels, as has been pointed out throughout this thread.

Edited August 9, 2022 by awakeintheashes

[Gary Strange]

The end times of objective grading, folks. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Gary Strange

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:14 PM, williamblood said:

stray dogs was done by publisher not by a store, these books are damaged and defective, and should be immediately removed from the cgc census. and any future grading of them should be green label

Yup. If I have Alex Ross paint a different cover for Kingdom Come #4, and I staple it on, it's getting a Qualified label. These acetate covers on the UF4 reprint is no different. It's unverified artwork added after the manufacturing process and not witnessed by CGC.

To CGC: It's not a variant cover.

Edited August 9, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[mattn792]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

 

@CGC Mike - I feel bad that you have to be the messenger in this fiasco.

[awakeintheashes]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

 

[SkOw]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

So Mike, just to confirm, I have a few hundred facsimile editions I bought when I liquidated a comic shop going out of business a couple years ago. Can I manufacture my own acetate cover and attach it to them as part of a manufacturing process?  Even though I think it is stupid, it seems that the market is there for this so what process do we need to follow to be able to do the same thing that Black Flag did?

[Nazirite]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:14 PM, Broke as a Joke said:

So adding an unauthorized cover to a book with extra staples is now considered part of the "manufacturing" of said book.  Good to know...

They just gave folks the go ahead so u know what that means:

[Iceman399]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:20 PM, SkOw said:

So Mike, just to confirm, I have a few hundred facsimile editions I bought when I liquidated a comic shop going out of business a couple years ago. Can I manufacture my own acetate cover and attach it to them as part of a manufacturing process?  Even though I think it is stupid, it seems that the market is there for this so what process do we need to follow to be able to do the same thing that Black Flag did?

Can't wait to hear rules if any behind attaching covers. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:21 PM, Nazirite said:

They just gave folks the go ahead so u know what that means:

Positive outlook? Maybe this will crash the variant market?

[jhenry30]

On 8/9/2022 at 1:39 PM, stynxno said:

I like Danielle and I've always had an awesome professional encounter with her. In our sales, her grading is always on point and her packing/response rate is fantastic. When I came back to comics a couple of years ago, I stumbled into the little community she was building on instragram and whatnot. I appreciate what she's trying to do - expanding the diversity of the comicbook community while having to deal with the BS associated with simply being a woman in comics. The amount of energy she has to spend dealing with misogyny is ridiculous though, before this C2E2 stuff, her what not sales seemed like one for the few places where folks could just be themselves. The comic community is, in my experience, small but isn't tight-knit. Instead, it's full of different smaller communities and those who are fine just collecting/reading/etc. Danielle has been intentionally doing what folks do online now - moving beyond social media and into simply nurturing a community. I doubt there's anything she could say/type/share that would get everyone degrading her to stop. She's a woman in the comic community and, imo, some believe that gives them permission to attack/insult/etc.  The mere performance/presence of femininity isn't permission for folks to behave the way they have. It is totally possible for folks to critique the whole situation (aka why this not-a-variant exists in the first place, how variants at cons are sold, wtf cgc was doing giving this book a blue label) while, at the same time, reflecting on how we would be reacting if was a white-man with Danielle's length as a comic dealer tied up in this situation.  

I'm taking too long to write this - so hopefully CGC hasn't posted their update before I wrote this. To me, this wouldn't be the big deal it's become for the last few days online (youtube, whatnot, instagram, this website and others) if it wasn't for the fact that CGC gave these a universal label and that at least one very online woman was involved. 

My head hurts after seeing you try to make this about her gender. It has nothing to do with gender at all just shady business practices by all parties involved.

[sd2416]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:39 PM, stynxno said:

I like Danielle and I've always had an awesome professional encounter with her. In our sales, her grading is always on point and her packing/response rate is fantastic. When I came back to comics a couple of years ago, I stumbled into the little community she was building on instragram and whatnot. I appreciate what she's trying to do - expanding the diversity of the comicbook community while having to deal with the BS associated with simply being a woman in comics. The amount of energy she has to spend dealing with misogyny is ridiculous though, before this C2E2 stuff, her what not sales seemed like one for the few places where folks could just be themselves. The comic community is, in my experience, small but isn't tight-knit. Instead, it's full of different smaller communities and those who are fine just collecting/reading/etc. Danielle has been intentionally doing what folks do online now - moving beyond social media and into simply nurturing a community. I doubt there's anything she could say/type/share that would get everyone degrading her to stop. She's a woman in the comic community and, imo, some believe that gives them permission to attack/insult/etc.  The mere performance/presence of femininity isn't permission for folks to behave the way they have. It is totally possible for folks to critique the whole situation (aka why this not-a-variant exists in the first place, how variants at cons are sold, wtf cgc was doing giving this book a blue label) while, at the same time, reflecting on how we would be reacting if was a white-man with Danielle's length as a comic dealer tied up in this situation.  

I'm taking too long to write this - so hopefully CGC hasn't posted their update before I wrote this. To me, this wouldn't be the big deal it's become for the last few days online (youtube, whatnot, instagram, this website and others) if it wasn't for the fact that CGC gave these a universal label and that at least one very online woman was involved. 

 

On 8/9/2022 at 1:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

Dont know which was worse

[SkOw]

On 8/9/2022 at 2:21 PM, Iceman399 said:

Can't wait to hear rules if any behind attaching covers. 

Exactly. What’s the process for the rest of us to mutilate dollar books and staple on covers?  We all want a piece of the action.