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C2E2 Variant Drama
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Started by fastballspecial,

4,556 posts in this topic

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awakeintheashes

awakeintheashes

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On 8/9/2022 at 2:34 PM, BoognishRises said:

I wonder if the fact that Black Flag/Clayton Crain already having their next 2 bootlegged acetate married frankenbooks already graded has anything to do with CGC tripling down now? That's right.... check the census. Their next two abominations have already been graded and BOTH have multiple 9.9's and each have a 10 again.

Quoting this so that it's not lost in the flurry of responses to CGC.

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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

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On 8/9/2022 at 1:20 PM, SkOw said:

So Mike, just to confirm, I have a few hundred facsimile editions I bought when I liquidated a comic shop going out of business a couple years ago. Can I manufacture my own acetate cover and attach it to them as part of a manufacturing process?  Even though I think it is stupid, it seems that the market is there for this so what process do we need to follow to be able to do the same thing that Black Flag did?

On 8/9/2022 at 1:21 PM, Nazirite said:

They just gave folks the go ahead so u know what that means:

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On 8/9/2022 at 1:21 PM, Iceman399 said:

Can't wait to hear rules if any behind attaching covers. 

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DrunkWooky

DrunkWooky

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On 8/9/2022 at 12:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

Yeah, that doesn't fly. Stray Dogs had a different bar code. This had the same bar code from last year. 

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Wheresmymarvelvaluestamp

Wheresmymarvelvaluestamp

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On 8/9/2022 at 11:07 AM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

I know you are just relaying a message but it is a joke. It was not a part of the manufacturing process. These books were leftovers from a previous exclusive on 11/21. The acetate covers were not attached at this time. So, what is stopping a retailer to put a different cover on just about any book that apparently wasn't selling? If a normal person put an acetate cover on their book it would get a green label. So, why would it be different if Black Flag does it? They are not involved with the manufacturing of any book as they are just a retailer. The fact that they put these covers on themselves (the owner of Black Flag admitted to this in a video) without Marvel being involved it should not warrant a blue label. You (CGC) are basically opening the door to future f$%kery. The book was not created this way and it was not planned at all when the books were first published. The Stray Dogs 1 was manufactured this way. It was not altered by a retailer and they were delivered to the comic retailers this way. CGC is once again proving the customers do not matter and the influencers and retailers have more precedence.

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JasonBogdanyi

JasonBogdanyi

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On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

I just want to Clarify something for the community around this response.

Stray Dogs 1 Acetate Variant was built and released at the same time as Cover A. The idea from Image was dropped at all of the same time for release day.

This book was also not a store exclusive but a one per store publicly distributed variant. 

What Black flag has done was: Used old books they had laying around (Over Stock / Dead Stock) and Printed Acetate Covers and added them on after the fact to help liquidate said Overstock.

What CGC is stating by this is that if a store has deadstock of 500 books - They can slap a acetate cover and resell it as new and improved and still receive a universal label?

@CGC Mike Is this correct?

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Get Marwood & I

Get Marwood & I

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We're dealing here with a company that:

  • advertises a crystal clear display, then insists that Newton Rings are normal and acceptable
  • grades invisible comics
  • slabs International reprints with the title and issue number of the US book that it reprints, not the book's actual title and issue number
  • believes multiple celebrity signing submissions have no bearing on TATs
  • gives first appearance designations to books that reprint first appearances
  • knowingly adds titles in the census against the records of publishers who never published those titles
  • tells us every book goes through QC when some of them go out upside down / in the wrong holder / accompanied by someone's hair

Why should anyone of us be surprised by this latest explanation - if you could call it that? Typical questionable judgement. Typical failure to uphold what is manifestly right and proper. Typical CGC. 

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Sigur Ros

Sigur Ros

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On 8/9/2022 at 2:07 PM, CGC Mike said:

Here is the official response from CGC regarding how we graded the books.

 

We apologize for the short response yesterday and wanted to follow up with an explanation of our thought process behind the grade assignments. We treated them as we would any other variant cover that's attached with an extra set of staples after the book was printed, and at times these books included the original cover as well.

 

There is a precedent for acetate covers being attached to a printed book, and then graded by CGC. An example is Stray Dogs #1 from last year. An acetate variant cover was attached with an extra set of staples, to which CGC assigned a Universal grade and a notation of “acetate cover” on the label. The extra set of staples were part of the manufacturing process of attaching the acetate cover, and not considered a defect.

 

Thanks Mike.

I know this isn't the final word from CGC (when they read it back they can't possibly feel it's a decent response), so maybe they'll touch on this eventually, but there is a huge difference between these and Stray Dogs because the publisher was involved. It's an official variant.  This one is more of an Etsy project.  I bet CGC is just throwing out that reference to justify this. 

But.. my rhetorical questions, since I know they won't get answered, are... 

Is this statement simply based on the fact CGC is already embedded with these and the next run of Black Flag books coming up in Boston? 

All of the hundreds of these acetate add-ons that get sent in will get blue labels? 

Is there a reason it's not graded as a double cover? 

Are all the grades paid for or just the 9.9s and 10s? 

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Lpgk

Lpgk

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On 8/9/2022 at 10:34 AM, SkOw said:

@CGC Mike

I doubt this will matter much but I must say your company’s response is the worst thing I’ve seen in all the years you’ve been operating.  Although I don’t slab a ton of books, I have been fiercely loyal to CGC and never used another company.

When turn around times were long, rates were going up, or notes were being taken off labels, I would stick up for you guys saying “well they are the best, they ARE the gold standard.”  
 

But there is no standing up for this one.  This shows a lack of integrity. 

Out of the hundreds of posts about this topic, Skow pretty much sums up how I feel the best. Besides my hate for the influencers and their greed in this fiasco.

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Atomic Ponkie

Atomic Ponkie

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On 8/9/2022 at 1:34 PM, BoognishRises said:

The latest response from CGC is ridiculous. Using the Stray Dogs acetate to compare? That was done officially by Image. This was a "retailer" taking leftover copies of his store variant that nobody wanted and having an acetate wrap stapled onto his books. This was NOT done by or approved by Marvel. This is an individual modifying the book. This 100% is a Green Label by CGC standards. Always has been and always should be. 

I wonder if the fact that Black Flag/Clayton Crain already having their next 2 bootlegged acetate married frankenbooks graded has anything to do with CGC tripling down now? That's right.... check the census. Their next two abominations (releasing soon) have already been graded and BOTH have multiple 9.9's and each have a 10 again. Lol!

This is absolutely ridiculous and EVERYONE here should be furious and should be speaking out and NOT backing down. We spend THOUSANDS (some tens of thousands) to have our books graded with CGC and this is being pulled now?

This will also open the door for this to become common practice and MULTIPLE store variant retailers will now wrap their dead stock crap in acetate (and grade) to dump onto the general public. These retailers bank, CGC banks, and those foolish enough to buy, or not know any better and think it's an official release, get duped.

To be fair to CGC, they did say months ago they're making changes for prominent members of the community lol

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