C2E2 Variant Drama 25 25

[Antman’s shorter brother]

All this acetate business is making me feel old. I remember a time when the only thing wrapped in plastic was Laura Palmer.

[fastballspecial]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:06 AM, Cman429 said:

If you think the comic industry is bad, you should look into the card business. It’s been my side hustle and in recent years it’s turned into an eerie reflection of the comic biz. Variant style cards, influencers jumping lines for exclusives, certain chosen companies curiously getting extraordinary high grades from “trusted” companies, etc… It’s all the same racket although on a bigger scale. No wonder CGC wanted in.

Unfortunately it seems like now that GenX and GenY have grown up to be gainfully employed - judging by this thread half of us are lawyers! - they’ve decided that Stocks are for boomers and Bitcoin is for those silly millennials so why not speculate with the things we grew up on, comics and cards!

it’s kinda depressing but I think we all know how it’ll eventually end.

Actually this is part of the reason for comics imploding in the 90s. I prefer it not happen again, but some of the card
speculators want to go broke again I guess.

 

[wiparker824]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:52 PM, Buzzetta said:

So is this the new mentality moving forward prompting more dealers, facilitators, venues and entities to repeat the incident by creating their own "variants" or is this a one off thing where it is a matter of CGC not backing off their initial mistake?

If they do not walk back on what they have done, I can see others imitate this to create some cheap variants to promote whatever floats their boat. 

Going to for sure be copied unless Marvel takes action against the retailer… even prior to it being a controversy it was going to sell out based on the demand. Even without the influencer thing or whatever color label CGC chose it would have still sold. So imagine being a retailer, having a bunch of inventory on some random book that you can’t move easily or at least easily for big money like this and flipping it into $75 a pop or whatever you choose to sell it for. Pay your artist their commission and you’re still way ahead on what was otherwise dead product. CGC making them blue labels just sweetens the pot, but it will be done again regardless, just a matter of what CGC does going forward which I’m guessing is doubling down on this decision.

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:48 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Not sure why the people who run the con would care, or prohibit this.  That means they'd have to dig into all reporting and decide how bad the situation really is.  They should stay out of it. 

You can buy counterfeit Cerebus at cons. You can buy counterfeit TMNT at cons. You can buy other comics turned into art, etc. at cons. 

Why should the con single him out? 

Let Marvel decide if there's a problem or not.  If there is, they'll deal with it. 

I'd rather they stop the weapon sales.  Weapons that you can't get through security with... You can buy inside the cons, lol. 

You are absolutely correct, and even your response is worded nicely - why can’t the cons just say that? Too afraid of hurting people’s feelings? Man, they need to just grow a pair and tell people “not our business, keep that drama on the CGC boards”. Just say something definitive and decisive. 

[MrBedrock]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:50 PM, FFB said:

On 8/11/2022 at 4:44 PM, MrBedrock said:

The frustrating thing is this is exactly what they were told they should do as early as Sunday, but they refused to do it then. I don't know why they haven't done it already. And I have a bad feeling that they may not do it ever.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one except for one thing - Marvel's response is the big wild card here.  If they send C&D letters to Black Flag AND CGC, it will remove CGC's discretion to just "do whatever they want" with the situation.  

Whatever Marvel and Black Flag do really doesn't interest me or affect my business much. I would never choose to carry those types of bootlegs or variants to offer for sale to my customers. The way that CGC chose to grade them does affect customer confidence in their product and I do carry CGC graded books, so confidence in their product does affect my business.  The only response I want to hear is CGC saying that they made a mistake and retracting their position on grading and validating those unauthorized books.

[Domo Arigato]

I have no desire to own this book because I don't collect stuff that I think is butt a*s stupid.

So, can someone tell me why any "pure as the driven snow" collectors even want this?

Isn't it a reprint/facsimile of an earlier comic? 

And didn't they just take this reprint and slap a ridiculous piece of plastic on it with a couple of extra staples?

It seems to me that most (if not everyone) pretty much wanted it for the speculation value of it and not as an actual collector.

Which means I have zero sympathy for anyone in this fiasco, and that CGC seriously needs to pull it's overgrown head out of it's own rectum.

 

[Iceman399]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:18 PM, MrBedrock said:

Whatever Marvel and Black Flag do really doesn't interest me or affect my business much. I would never choose to carry those types of bootlegs or variants to offer for sale to my customers. The way that CGC chose to grade them does affect customer confidence in their product and I do carry CGC graded books, so confidence in their product does affect my business.  The only response I want to hear is CGC saying that they made a mistake and retracting their position on grading and validating those unauthorized books.

This over and over again this. 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:33 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

No I'm clarifying as a recap of what the thread sounds like. Everyone is getting it out of their system with different views. To clarify my stance, which I haven't made yet, it is an issue.

This seems like every step leads to me to believe in the grand scheme of things, it's an odd no brainer.

So 103 pages later did it take 103 pages to surmise in one post what I stated? Definitely an issue, I'm wondering if cgc response is awaiting cool down. Or somehow I've missed it in this sea of pages where cgc had posted what three times?

Definitely an issue definitely a problem but has lost its luster imo

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:24 PM, Domo Arigato said:Isn't it a reprint/facsimile of an earlier comic?

 

Yes - and I don’t understand the huge valuation in a reprint. Then again, I think Sulver Surfer fantasy masterpiece reprints should only be worth $1, but they are worth much more than that. Somewhere along the line of the past 8 years, reprints have gained in value in a way I am not comprehending.

[KirbyTown]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:03 PM, fastballspecial said:

I prefer it not happen again

 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:26 PM, Iceman399 said:

This over and over again this. 

Back in the day what was the position on the counterfeit copies of cerebus 1 (was that the book?)

[southern cross]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:26 PM, Lox o' said:

Aren't you a loyal CBCS customer in the first place?

Maybe yes...

I've dropped off books to CBCS 3 times so maybe yes...

I've sent CGC two submissions so maybe yes...

I've a Boston copy I wanted to get graded by CGC to get the pedigree on the label to go with my CGC TTA pedigrees run so maybe yes...

I have 90% of my slabs are CGC so maybe yes...

8% CBCS so maybe yes...

2% made up of PGX and Hallo so maybe yes... 🤔

Edited August 11, 2022 by southern cross
Typo

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:27 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

On 8/11/2022 at 5:24 PM, Domo Arigato said:

I have no desire to own this book because I don't collect stuff that I think is butt a*s stupid.

So, can someone tell me why any "pure as the driven snow" collectors even want this?

Isn't it a reprint/facsimile of an earlier comic? 

And didn't they just take this reprint and slap a ridiculous piece of plastic on it with a couple of extra staples?

It seems to me that most (if not everyone) pretty much wanted it for the speculation value of it and not as an actual collector.

Which means I have zero sympathy for anyone in this fiasco, and that CGC seriously needs to pull it's overgrown head out of it's own rectum.

 

Lol this is what I mean, this whole thing is odd  an odd hill to die on. I feel like i should be pointing and laughing.

And then I think well that's not nice, then I think how does this affect me but that's selfish. Idk I'm trying to wrap my minimal experience with variants and maybe a light bulb will go off.

And it's not all determined: acetate not production nor authorized. Just a "manufactured variant" that is basically the same as every other variant, but never mind that because cgc gave it a blue label. Then I understand there is no decency in that, but this is the boards, and I expect that to matter so I "get it"

Does anyone even know the last page cgc Mike spoke about it? Its 104 pages of the same thing, and a whole lot of non reciprocation, that Idk even know whom I'm expecting a solution from

finger pointing and no solutions. They say I'll go blind but it's just a myyyyyth- green day

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:38 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

 

Lol this is what I mean, this whole thing is odd  an odd hill to die on. I feel like i should be pointing and laughing.

And then I think well that's not nice, then I think how does this affect me but that's selfish. Idk I'm trying to wrap my minimal experience with variants and maybe a light bulb will go off.

And it's not all determined: acetate not production nor authorized. Just a "manufactured variant" that is basically the same as every other variant, but never mind that because cgc gave it a blue label. Then I understand there is no decency in that, but this is the boards, and I expect that to matter so I "get it"

Does anyone even know the last page cgc Mike spoke about it? Its 104 pages of the same thing, and a whole lot of non reciprocation, that Idk even know whom I'm expecting a solution from

finger pointing and no solutions. They say I'll go blind but it's just a myyyyyth- green day

Definitely some constructive things too though.

But snap if it all seems futile, maybe I need a snickers

Edited August 11, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM

[nepatkm]

Wow this thread…is Fire 🔥 😆 

[troydivision1]

CGC is not responding because they feel it will 'blow over' just like their [past tense noun / verb] up handling of the 'invisible' comics for Bad Idea.
They are probably figuring out a way to place blame on Black Flag versus accepting they [past tense noun / verb] up one their main duties.  Again.

[Bob Sacamano]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:49 AM, FFB said:

The First Sale doctrine merely allows you to resell the thing you bought without Marvel's approval.  Marvel only possesses exclusive rights as to the "first sale" of the product, meaning that once they choose who they sell it to, the purchaser can resell the item without Marvel's approval.  

You are confusing this with the derivative works protection that Marvel enjoys.  Even after the first sale of the original item, Marvel continues to possess the right to prevent others from taking their IP and making a derivative work from it without their approval, even if the protected item was legally purchased by the person making the derivative work.  

I’m no attorney so I’ll defer to you but it seems to me that the first sale doctrine wouldn’t even come into play since the retailer, Black Flag isn’t selling these a second time.  This is the first sale.  The first sale does not refer to Marvel selling to the retailer otherwise the whole doctrine would be moot since obviously Marvel can sell to whoever they wish and bind them through contract. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/11/2022 at 5:44 PM, nepatkm said:

Wow this thread…is Fire 🔥 😆 

Complete with several @ADAMANTIUM burn outs as well! 

I may need a break!

Edited August 11, 2022 by ADAMANTIUM

[Black_Adam]

Not sure why everyone seems so surprised that CGC is neck deep in these acetate-gate shenanigans, everyone knows that Matt Nelson and Danielle Smith (nerdy_girl) are in cahoots - just ask Dylan!

https://thelosangelestribune.com/2020/10/19/corporation-female-retailer-form-conspiracy-against-college-kid/

 

[Prince Namor]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:33 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Yes - and I don’t understand the huge valuation in a reprint. Then again, I think Sulver Surfer fantasy masterpiece reprints should only be worth $1, but they are worth much more than that. Somewhere along the line of the past 8 years, reprints have gained in value in a way I am not comprehending.

New young dealers in the biz can't hang and need something they can hype that doesn't cost as much as Silver Age keys.