C2E2 Variant Drama 24 24

[Gaard]

I think CGC's lack of response, and Black Flag hiding behind banners at Boston pretty much say the same thing.

[Atomic Ponkie]

On 8/14/2022 at 7:25 AM, Bookery said:

Oh for cryin' out loud.  155 pages and comment after comment about the "mistakes" Crain made with the cover.  Are there no readers of literature here?  Are there no film students?  Does no one understand symbolism?

Now... I have never made a political comment on here, CGC, nor am I doing so now.  I am merely explaining what Crain's cover is intentionally representing, and it is Crain making political commentary, not me.  One error might be made... but not three.

When the acetate is folded it actually reads "In God we intrust America".  Crain is making a comment about how he feels the country is overly-influenced by religion (or by certain groups therein).  A folded flag must not show the stripes (esp. the red) because (and no, I'm not a flag expert... I had to look it up), in the context of this being given to a battle-victim's survivor, the red would be a reminder of the  "bloodshed" of war and thus inappropriate to give to a grieving person.  Any cover could have been used for this first acetate experiment... but he chose this one.  In this case an African-American with bowed head is holding an American flag revealing the nation's "bloodshed" and his sorrow.  Any professional artist would have obvious examples of a flag to check for accuracy, so the inverted stripes is intentional, likely meaning America is a nation that puts "white" above all.  I'm guessing Crain's "joke" is that this cover would especially sell to people of certain political persuasions who would want it for its "patriotism", while he's getting a chuckle out of the fact that it represents just the opposite (in his eyes). 

I didn't want to post in this thread... but the fact that no one was seeing this was driving me nuts.  Sorry.  Carry on.  

I think you're looking too deep into it lmao

[Ryan.]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:32 AM, Black_Adam said:

They aren't being ostracized by the comic collecting and online community because of C2E2? I thought that was the definition of cancel culture.

 I was under the impression that Black Flag, and also CGC, were being heavily criticized as a result of their dubious business practices. Waving their decision making off as just some bros funning around and inadvertently ending up being "ostracized" makes them seem like victims rather than willing participants in this whole ordeal.

[CJ Design]

On 8/14/2022 at 10:54 AM, Atomic Ponkie said:

I think you're looking too deep into it lmao

Agree. IMHO, his (Crain) "feelings" are not an excuse for disrespect...who gives a Flying F' what he thinks...or his statements. JFC!

Edited August 14, 2022 by CJ Design

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Edited August 14, 2022 by BlowUpTheMoon

[ScarletSpider94]

[JC25427N]

Oh for cryin' out loud.  155 pages and comment after comment about the "mistakes" Black Flag made with the variant.  Are there no readers of literature here?  Are there no film students?  Does no one understand symbolism?

Now... I have never made a sociological comment on here, CGC, nor am I doing so now.  I am merely explaining what Black Flag's variant is intentionally representing, and it is Black Flag making social commentary, not me.  One error might be made... but not three.

Black Flag is making a comment about how they feel the hobby is overly-saturated by variants, with about 10-20 variants coming out for just about every new book (and no, I'm not a variant expert... I had to look it up). This acetate experiment is is clearly satire showing just how ridiculous this modern variant craze is. Any cover could have been used for this first acetate experiment... but they chose this one. Of all the books in the neo-Modern Era, Ultimate Fallout 4 can be considered a symbol of this era. A breakout book who despite coming out extremely recently has found a tremendous surge in value. In addition, recent controversy concerning CGC mislabeling facsimiles of UF4 as the original thing makes the choice of using UF4 for this acetate social experiment even more ingenious and adds another layer of depth to Black Flag's satire. I'm guessing Black Flag's "joke" is they have created the quintessential modern book, something that symbolizes everything crazy with the current hobby when it comes to moderns. The fact that so very few people seem to have the capacity to understand this is outstanding.

I didn't want to post in this thread... but the fact that no one was seeing this was driving me nuts.  Sorry.  Carry on.  

[Ryan.]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:15 PM, JC25427N said:

Oh for cryin' out loud.  155 pages and comment after comment about the "mistakes" Black Flag made with the variant.  Are there no readers of literature here?  Are there no film students?  Does no one understand symbolism?

Now... I have never made a sociological comment on here, CGC, nor am I doing so now.  I am merely explaining what Black Flag's variant is intentionally representing, and it is Black Flag making social commentary, not me.  One error might be made... but not three.

Black Flag is making a comment about how they feel the hobby is overly-saturated by variants, with about 10-20 variants coming out for just about every new book (and no, I'm not a variant expert... I had to look it up). This acetate experiment is is clearly satire showing just how ridiculous this modern variant craze is. Any cover could have been used for this first acetate experiment... but they chose this one. Of all the books in the neo-Modern Era, Ultimate Fallout 4 can be considered a symbol of this era. A breakout book who despite coming out extremely recently has found a tremendous surge in value. In addition, recent controversy concerning CGC mislabeling facsimiles of UF4 as the original thing makes the choice of using UF4 for this acetate social experiment even more ingenious and adds another layer of depth to Black Flag's satire. I'm guessing Black Flag's "joke" is they have created the quintessential modern book, something that symbolizes everything crazy with the current hobby when it comes to moderns. The fact that so very few people seem to have the capacity to understand this is outstanding.

I didn't want to post in this thread... but the fact that no one was seeing this was driving me nuts.  Sorry.  Carry on.  

This I might believe. 

[Cat]

On 8/15/2022 at 2:15 AM, JC25427N said:

Oh for cryin' out loud.  155 pages and comment after comment about the "mistakes" Black Flag made with the variant.  Are there no readers of literature here?  Are there no film students?  Does no one understand symbolism?

Now... I have never made a sociological comment on here, CGC, nor am I doing so now.  I am merely explaining what Black Flag's variant is intentionally representing, and it is Black Flag making social commentary, not me.  One error might be made... but not three.

Black Flag is making a comment about how they feel the hobby is overly-saturated by variants, with about 10-20 variants coming out for just about every new book (and no, I'm not a variant expert... I had to look it up). This acetate experiment is is clearly satire showing just how ridiculous this modern variant craze is. Any cover could have been used for this first acetate experiment... but they chose this one. Of all the books in the neo-Modern Era, Ultimate Fallout 4 can be considered a symbol of this era. A breakout book who despite coming out extremely recently has found a tremendous surge in value. In addition, recent controversy concerning CGC mislabeling facsimiles of UF4 as the original thing makes the choice of using UF4 for this acetate social experiment even more ingenious and adds another layer of depth to Black Flag's satire. I'm guessing Black Flag's "joke" is they have created the quintessential modern book, something that symbolizes everything crazy with the current hobby when it comes to moderns. The fact that so very few people seem to have the capacity to understand this is outstanding.

I didn't want to post in this thread... but the fact that no one was seeing this was driving me nuts.  Sorry.  Carry on.  

UNSUBSCRIBE

[Gary Strange]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:06 AM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

I think this guy is a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed. And his voice and face is super annoying. 

[Buzzetta]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:15 PM, JC25427N said:

Oh for cryin' out loud.  155 pages and comment after comment about the "mistakes" Black Flag made with the variant.  Are there no readers of literature here?  Are there no film students?  Does no one understand symbolism?

Now... I have never made a sociological comment on here, CGC, nor am I doing so now.  I am merely explaining what Black Flag's variant is intentionally representing, and it is Black Flag making social commentary, not me.  One error might be made... but not three.

Black Flag is making a comment about how they feel the hobby is overly-saturated by variants, with about 10-20 variants coming out for just about every new book (and no, I'm not a variant expert... I had to look it up). This acetate experiment is is clearly satire showing just how ridiculous this modern variant craze is. Any cover could have been used for this first acetate experiment... but they chose this one. Of all the books in the neo-Modern Era, Ultimate Fallout 4 can be considered a symbol of this era. A breakout book who despite coming out extremely recently has found a tremendous surge in value. In addition, recent controversy concerning CGC mislabeling facsimiles of UF4 as the original thing makes the choice of using UF4 for this acetate social experiment even more ingenious and adds another layer of depth to Black Flag's satire. I'm guessing Black Flag's "joke" is they have created the quintessential modern book, something that symbolizes everything crazy with the current hobby when it comes to moderns. The fact that so very few people seem to have the capacity to understand this is outstanding.

I didn't want to post in this thread... but the fact that no one was seeing this was driving me nuts.  Sorry.  Carry on.  

I think that the bigger problem over anything is CGC slapping a blue label on it contrasts with previous grading precedent.  I think it also unnerves people as a means to game the CGC grading system in how 9.9's and 10's were achieved. 

There have always been a behind the scenes conversation about how certain higher profile businesses and collectors have received preferential treatment over the years despite CGC claiming that every book is graded blind to the individual or entity that submits it.  

Desert Wind was a public conversation and "rumors" of a certain collector who took the CGC team out to dinner and also had their books reevaluated are more low key ones.   

My biggest problem is CGC treating this as some special edition comic or a published variant while every book before it indicates that the books should have received a grade of "NG" or been placed into a green label. 

As @MrBedrock basically said, this breaks down confidence in the product itself which then lowers the perceived value of books encased in a CGC holder. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Buzzetta

[namisgr]

On 8/14/2022 at 11:32 AM, Black_Adam said:

They aren't being ostracized by the comic collecting and online community because of C2E2? I thought that was the definition of cancel culture.

When a business is ostracized for their business practices, there's no 'culture' involved at all.

[Atomic Ponkie]

On 8/14/2022 at 9:06 AM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

True. Taking AOKs meant for mystery boxes and putting them on his Ebay. Honestly this is worse than him skipping the line for books. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/14/2022 at 6:49 AM, Cman429 said:

Crain did a comic shop tour last year. He came to my LCS and the line for him stretched outside the store, down the corridor almost to the entrance of the mall. This store has had signings by Shooter, Golden, Land, etc and I’ve never seen 1/3 of that for any creator. On Black Friday they’re lucky if there’s 20 people in the store at a time, 

He’s been at Megacon every year the past several years. He’s so in demand that you have to give Flag your # and they put you in a ‘virtual queue.” The queue is usually full by around noon.

I’ve met him several times. The first time 4-5 years ago I got a sketch. I put the sketch on comicartfans just to show it off but every 6 months or so I get a message asking if I’d be willing to sell it. Turned down several decent offers. At the LCS signing I mentioned the owner set up a VIP line for us longtime pull box customers. I had grown men offering me $100+ to pretend they were with me so they could jump the line to meet this guy. 

It’s fine if you never heard of him. It’s fine if you hate his art or think he’s a talentless hack as I’ve seen others allude to. The fact is he’s an absolute rock star among modern comic collectors. His popularity is on par with what I saw with the OG Image founders back in the 90s. Except having done 1/10 of the work.  

I got a sketch cover done at NYCC one year, when he was still working on Rai. I think I paid less than he's charging now for a rainbow signature. I think his Valiant covers are, for the most part, very good, but his storytelling on interiors could use some work. Covers seems to be where he shines the most (and can do more, if he's not working on interiors).

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/14/2022 at 10:25 AM, Bookery said:

Oh for cryin' out loud.  155 pages and comment after comment about the "mistakes" Crain made with the cover.  Are there no readers of literature here?  Are there no film students?  Does no one understand symbolism?

Now... I have never made a political comment on here, CGC, nor am I doing so now.  I am merely explaining what Crain's cover is intentionally representing, and it is Crain making political commentary, not me.  One error might be made... but not three.

When the acetate is folded it actually reads "In God we intrust America".  Crain is making a comment about how he feels the country is overly-influenced by religion (or by certain groups therein).  A folded flag must not show the stripes (esp. the red) because (and no, I'm not a flag expert... I had to look it up), in the context of this being given to a battle-victim's survivor, the red would be a reminder of the  "bloodshed" of war and thus inappropriate to give to a grieving person.  Any cover could have been used for this first acetate experiment... but he chose this one.  In this case an African-American with bowed head is holding an American flag revealing the nation's "bloodshed" and his sorrow.  Any professional artist would have obvious examples of a flag to check for accuracy, so the inverted stripes is intentional, likely meaning America is a nation that puts "white" above all.  I'm guessing Crain's "joke" is that this cover would especially sell to people of certain political persuasions who would want it for its "patriotism", while he's getting a chuckle out of the fact that it represents just the opposite (in his eyes). 

I didn't want to post in this thread... but the fact that no one was seeing this was driving me nuts.  Sorry.  Carry on.  

This reads like you have 5 minutes left in the exam to write the essay. I think you're seeing a lot that's just not there. 

[Jimmy Linguini]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:04 PM, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I got a sketch cover done at NYCC one year, when he was still working on Rai. I think I paid less than he's charging now for a rainbow signature. I think his Valiant covers are, for the most part, very good, but his storytelling on interiors could use some work. Covers seems to be where he shines the most (and can do more, if he's not working on interiors).

he now charges $500 for a five minute sketch.

[Atomic Ponkie]

On 8/14/2022 at 10:08 AM, Jimmy Linguini said:

he now charges $500 for a five minute sketch.

How much do sketches usually cost? I've been wanting to get a blank cover sketch from Bagley for a while. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Atomic Ponkie

[Jimmy Linguini]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:11 PM, Atomic Ponkie said:

How much do sketches usually cost? I've been wanting to get a blank cover sketch from Bagley for a while. 

Depends on the artist but IMO a five minute sketch from a guy with the resume of Crain is too much.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:08 PM, Jimmy Linguini said:

he now charges $500 for a five minute sketch.

Please tell me you’re kidding 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

On 8/14/2022 at 12:15 PM, JC25427N said:

Oh for cryin' out loud.  155 pages and comment after comment about the "mistakes" Black Flag made with the variant.  Are there no readers of literature here?  Are there no film students?  Does no one understand symbolism?

Now... I have never made a sociological comment on here, CGC, nor am I doing so now.  I am merely explaining what Black Flag's variant is intentionally representing, and it is Black Flag making social commentary, not me.  One error might be made... but not three.

Black Flag is making a comment about how they feel the hobby is overly-saturated by variants, with about 10-20 variants coming out for just about every new book (and no, I'm not a variant expert... I had to look it up). This acetate experiment is is clearly satire showing just how ridiculous this modern variant craze is. Any cover could have been used for this first acetate experiment... but they chose this one. Of all the books in the neo-Modern Era, Ultimate Fallout 4 can be considered a symbol of this era. A breakout book who despite coming out extremely recently has found a tremendous surge in value. In addition, recent controversy concerning CGC mislabeling facsimiles of UF4 as the original thing makes the choice of using UF4 for this acetate social experiment even more ingenious and adds another layer of depth to Black Flag's satire. I'm guessing Black Flag's "joke" is they have created the quintessential modern book, something that symbolizes everything crazy with the current hobby when it comes to moderns. The fact that so very few people seem to have the capacity to understand this is outstanding.

I didn't want to post in this thread... but the fact that no one was seeing this was driving me nuts.  Sorry.  Carry on.  

This post is a better example of satire than the acetate cover would have been, if that's what it was trying to be, which it's not.

Conveys a message clearly on its own, while also being an obvious criticism of something that those who are reading the thread are aware of.