C2E2 Variant Drama 25 25

[Juno Beach]

So CGC just grades covers and not the entire book? 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:09 AM, Juno Beach said:

So CGC just grades covers and not the entire book? 

Who cares about the pages in a modern slab?

[Kripsys99]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:57 PM, CGC Mike said:

We appreciate everyone being patient with our follow-up regarding the Clayton Crain acetate covers. After discussions this past week, CGC will assign a Qualified Signature Series label to comics that contain an acetate cover by Mr. Crain, as well as his signature that has been witnessed by a CGC representative. This also applies to the Ultimate Fallout: Facsimile Edition #4 that sold in C2E2. The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book.  For members who have already submitted copies of the Ultimate Fallout issue to CGC, we will extend an opportunity to have Mr. Crain’s signature applied to their copies so they receive the Qualified Signature Series label. If a copy does not exhibit Mr. Crain’s witnessed signature, the book will receive a qualified grade. 

Going forward, CGC will only certify artist-created covers that are first approved by CGC, and those covers must be signed by the artist through the Signature Series program to receive the Qualified Signature Series label. The cover must be created by a published artist.

Appreciate the tacit admission that CGC F'ed up, and the steps CGC is taking to rectify the issue moving forward.

Still waiting for CGC to apologize for making such an egregious unforced error, for refusing to acknowledge the error for weeks, and for diminishing the faith that both myself and others now have in the grades assigned to our own comics.

Maybe after a few more weeks of sustained pressure, CGC will deign to consider same.

Or (more likely) CGC is content to simply say: "Let them eat qualified copies of the bootlegged books which kicked off this debacle to begin with, signed by the cover artist!!!"

Edited August 23, 2022 by Kripsys99
Typo

[DrunkWooky]

On 8/22/2022 at 2:57 PM, CGC Mike said:

We appreciate everyone being patient with our follow-up regarding the Clayton Crain acetate covers. After discussions this past week, CGC will assign a Qualified Signature Series label to comics that contain an acetate cover by Mr. Crain, as well as his signature that has been witnessed by a CGC representative. This also applies to the Ultimate Fallout: Facsimile Edition #4 that sold in C2E2. The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book.  For members who have already submitted copies of the Ultimate Fallout issue to CGC, we will extend an opportunity to have Mr. Crain’s signature applied to their copies so they receive the Qualified Signature Series label. If a copy does not exhibit Mr. Crain’s witnessed signature, the book will receive a qualified grade. 

Going forward, CGC will only certify artist-created covers that are first approved by CGC, and those covers must be signed by the artist through the Signature Series program to receive the Qualified Signature Series label. The cover must be created by a published artist.

So two quick thoughts here:

1. this says that signed and witnessed acetate covers will get a Signature Series Qualified label with a grade that “will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book.” Then it goes on to state that a copy without Crain’s signature will receive a “qualified grade.” So basically, Signature Series books will grade higher and unsigned books will grade lower. So, this was a masterful corporate PR pivot to soft-sell the Signature Series and a future Crain in-house signing. 
 

2. Apparently, future after-production covers will need to be pre-approved by CGC. I assume there was a little Marvel finger-wagging here and CGC’s pre-approval will in-turn also require Marvel’s pre-approval as the IP holder. In short, it’s exceedingly unlikely this will happen again in the future with a Marvel book. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by DrunkWooky

[MGH]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:09 PM, Juno Beach said:

So CGC just grades covers and not the entire book? 

It does appear to be their approach to moderns. 

 

Id like this clarified as don't want to be in scenario  where pay premium to   buy a slabbed modern 9.6 / 9.8  only to crack it and find out  its  full of crisps,  greasy finger marks and creased pages  on the inside 

Edited August 23, 2022 by MGH

[JC25427N]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:57 PM, CGC Mike said:

We appreciate everyone being patient with our follow-up regarding the Clayton Crain acetate covers. After discussions this past week, CGC will assign a Qualified Signature Series label to comics that contain an acetate cover by Mr. Crain, as well as his signature that has been witnessed by a CGC representative. This also applies to the Ultimate Fallout: Facsimile Edition #4 that sold in C2E2. The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book.  For members who have already submitted copies of the Ultimate Fallout issue to CGC, we will extend an opportunity to have Mr. Crain’s signature applied to their copies so they receive the Qualified Signature Series label. If a copy does not exhibit Mr. Crain’s witnessed signature, the book will receive a qualified grade. 

Going forward, CGC will only certify artist-created covers that are first approved by CGC, and those covers must be signed by the artist through the Signature Series program to receive the Qualified Signature Series label. The cover must be created by a published artist.

Yeah the way that was worded sounds weird to me. Of course anything with a witnessed signature will get a signature series label, I think they could have just said the Acetate Variants will now get qualified labels (and then it would go without saying that if it got a witnessed signature it would then get the qualified signature series label). Or they could have at least said that part (the acetates variants will now get green labels) first, but leading with "CGC will assign a Qualified Signature Series label to comics that contain an acetate cover by Mr. Crain, as well as his signature that has been witnessed by a CGC representative" just makes it all sound awkward

 

And then it's followed up with "and those covers must be signed by the artist through the Signature Series program to receive the Qualified Signature Series label." I don't know why an explanation of how the signature series programs work is in this announcement so many times, it just makes things a bit harder to decipher actually imo. The only way I can read this so that it doesn't sound like a redundant explanation of the signature series programs is that these acetate variants will only get a signature series qualified label if the artist of the acetate cover signs it. But then that just sounds off,  if anyone else but the artist of the acetate cover signs that book (with a CGC witness of course) it won't get the qualified signature series label?

Edited August 23, 2022 by JC25427N

[jcjames]

On 8/22/2022 at 6:51 PM, I like pie said:

There are only about 10 on the census now. I'm sure there's a bunch at CGC now though. Those people are going to be pissed when they get their green labels back.

It won't be the first time people have been upset at grades/labels they get back from CGC. 

[TTony]

On 8/22/2022 at 7:03 PM, fastballspecial said:

Took 192 pages, but progress on something that shouldn't have took so much pressure.
It should have been obvious from the start. Not rubbing it in, but it shows the right
pressure does get a response.

 

 

I think it was my "Things Money Can't Buy" meme from last night that did it.  

On 8/22/2022 at 1:57 PM, CGC Mike said:

We appreciate everyone being patient with our follow-up regarding the Clayton Crain acetate covers. After discussions this past week, CGC will assign a Qualified Signature Series label to comics that contain an acetate cover by Mr. Crain, as well as his signature that has been witnessed by a CGC representative. This also applies to the Ultimate Fallout: Facsimile Edition #4 that sold in C2E2. The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book.  For members who have already submitted copies of the Ultimate Fallout issue to CGC, we will extend an opportunity to have Mr. Crain’s signature applied to their copies so they receive the Qualified Signature Series label. If a copy does not exhibit Mr. Crain’s witnessed signature, the book will receive a qualified grade. 

Going forward, CGC will only certify artist-created covers that are first approved by CGC, and those covers must be signed by the artist through the Signature Series program to receive the Qualified Signature Series label. The cover must be created by a published artist.

This is great news!  It is great that a company can admit a mistake.  Faith restored, especially with not editing this thread!  

On 8/22/2022 at 9:33 PM, DrunkWooky said:

So two quick thoughts here:

1. this says that signed and witnessed acetate covers will get a Signature Series Qualified label with a grade that “will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book.” Then it goes on to state that a copy without Crain’s signature will receive a “qualified grade.” So basically, Signature Series books will grade higher and unsigned books will grade lower. So, this was a masterful corporate PR pivot to soft-sell the Signature Series and a future Crain in-house signing. 
 

2. Apparently, future after-production covers will need to be pre-approved by CGC. I assume there was a little Marvel finger-wagging here and CGC’s pre-approval will in-turn also require Marvel’s pre-approval as the IP holder. In short, it’s exceedingly unlikely this will happen again in the future with a Marvel book. 

1.  This question doesn't make sense to me?  Non-signed books will get a qualified label.  Signed books will get a qualified lable signature series.  The way they are graded is the same (acetate cover + interior of the book... which after adding the cover means the original cover is now part of the interior).

2.  I agree, looks like this may have been a gray area before but now is black & white to those involved. 

On 8/22/2022 at 9:36 PM, MGH said:

It does appear to be their approach to moderns. 

 

Id like this clarified as don't want to be in scenario  where pay premium to   buy a slabbed modern 9.6 / 9.8  only to crack it and find out  its  full of crisps,  greasy finger marks and creased pages  on the inside 

@CGC Mike's response above specifically says "The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book."  That should address your concern.

 

Regarding the status of the previously graded books... as of now (Aug 22), the census has not been updated.  The original grading took place on 7/29, the correction with "Intrust" added was made on 8/12.  So now we await the qualified update...

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:30 AM, Kripsys99 said:

Appreciate the tacit admission that CGC F'ed up, and the steps CGC is taking to rectify the issue moving forward.

Still waiting for CGC to apologize for making such an egregious unforced error, for refusing to acknowledge the error for weeks, and for diminishing the faith that both myself and others now have in the grades assigned to our own comics.

Maybe after a few more weeks of sustained pressure, CGC will deign to consider same.

Or (more likely) CGC is content to simply say: "Let them eat qualified copies of the bootlegged books which kicked off this debacle to begin with, signed by the cover artist!!!"

 

[Ed Hanes]

I have an easier time solving partial differential equations than trying to understand this thread and the reason for it

How did comic book collecting become so complicated? (please don't try to answer this..my head already hurts)

Edited August 23, 2022 by Ed Hanes

[MGH]

@TTony 

Re:   response above specifically says "The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book."  That should address your concern.

 

How does that address concern...  It implies they only graded the acetate until they succumbed to public pressure and agreed it should be the book..  

 

Is this a one off?   Or is this common practice where only the exterior cover  of a modern is used to determine  grade

[Coverless 9.8]

It sounds as though consumers are as satisfied as they're going to be, so the Head Grading Team can get back to work on delivering 9.9's and 10.0's to the right people!  Influencers can maintain their place at the front of the line for convention exclusives, preferably out of sight of those not privileged!  It'll feel good to get back to business as usual!  

[Gaard]

On 8/10/2022 at 6:16 PM, Gaard said:

Pay for Grades

What say you CGC? yea or nay?

 

[Ryan.]

[Motor City Rob]

On 8/23/2022 at 12:52 AM, JC25427N said:

Yeah the way that was worded sounds weird to me. Of course anything with a witnessed signature will get a signature series label, I think they could have just said the Acetate Variants will now get qualified labels (and then it would go without saying that if it got a witnessed signature it would then get the qualified signature series label). Or they could have at least said that part (the acetates variants will now get green labels) first, but leading with "CGC will assign a Qualified Signature Series label to comics that contain an acetate cover by Mr. Crain, as well as his signature that has been witnessed by a CGC representative" just makes it all sound awkward

 

And then it's followed up with "and those covers must be signed by the artist through the Signature Series program to receive the Qualified Signature Series label." I don't know why an explanation of how the signature series programs work is in this announcement so many times, it just makes things a bit harder to decipher actually imo. The only way I can read this so that it doesn't sound like a redundant explanation of the signature series programs is that these acetate variants will only get a signature series qualified label if the artist of the acetate cover signs it. But then that just sounds off,  if anyone else but the artist of the acetate cover signs that book (with a CGC witness of course) it won't get the qualified signature series label?

I think you're over-analyzing. CGC is saying the book is Qualified. Also, any artist that signs the book (witnessed by CGC) will result in a SS Qualified label. If no signature, just a green Qualified label. I think it's that simple. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/22/2022 at 9:51 PM, I like pie said:

There are only about 10 on the census now. I'm sure there's a bunch at CGC now though. Those people are going to be pissed when they get their green labels back.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[Motor City Rob]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:57 AM, MGH said:

@TTony 

Re:   response above specifically says "The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book."  That should address your concern.

 

How does that address concern...  It implies they only graded the acetate until they succumbed to public pressure and agreed it should be the book..  

 

Is this a one off?   Or is this common practice where only the exterior cover  of a modern is used to determine  grade

 

No, it's no common practice. The entire book should always be graded. CGC knows this incident was a mistake. Disappointing that it took them so long to change their stance and get it right.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:16 PM, CGC Mike said:

To those that have asked me questions.  I will not be able to answer any of them. Sorry.

Useless.

Spoiler

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:20 AM, Ed Hanes said:

I have an easier time solving partial differential equations than trying to understand this thread and the reason for it

Are you really saying that you don't understand why 99.9% of the comic book collecting community has a problem with the leading third-party grading company telling consumers that it's "authentic" to add an acetate cover with 2 additional staples and call it a "variant" without the publisher's consent...?

[MGH]

On 8/23/2022 at 7:24 PM, Motor City Rob said:

 

No, it's no common practice. The entire book should always be graded. CGC knows this incident was a mistake. Disappointing that it took them so long to change their stance and get it right.

I'm far from convinced it was a mistake beyond mistaking how   the response to this poor decision making process would be and how much exposure it would attract

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by MGH