I need cash - prices dropped again - Keys: Thor, Iron Man, Vision, Falcon, Kang, and some golden, etc... 16 16

[speedcake]

On 3/23/2023 at 6:17 PM, Randall Dowling said:

 

This whole thread is a bad look for the boards.  If this is the way things are going here, I'm not sure how much I want to sell or buy here. 

 

It 100% has been a terrible look.  Its the worst thread I can remember ever seeing in the sales forums; and without any hard facts and evidence regarding the sellers situation or true intent, I think the dog piling went way overboard and far too quickly.

It has not been a civil thread by any stretch of the imagination, not even remotely up to the standards this forum should be striving for. The mods literally had to move it here because people couldn't help themselves and continued to blow up

If it turns out this guy, or someone else pretending to be him, indeed attempted a rip off job then rage on! But in the meantime, put the pitchforks away and grow up.

Regarding his being "active" on the forums, its meaningless. There are many reasons that might have caused his profile to show active without him actually being on the forums. He isn't posting anywhere else on the boards, we only have evidence of his replying one private message. We don't know he hasn't replied to more.  It's also perfectly possible that he saw the lynch mob and doesn't know how to respond. That's just conjecture on my part, but since he's not been given due process I'd not be surprised to learn he is gun-shy about responding to any allegations.

Maybe it turns out he's just a lazy person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed frog who didn't take his sales thread seriously, but maybe wait til we know that before causing all this silly kerfuffle.

And also again, unless you paid a total unknown a bunch of money with no protection (check, PP F&F, etc), there's even less reason to have nuked this thread and the reputation of the sales forum.  Be angry and disappointed, sure. but have a meltdown? Try meditation instead.

Edited March 23, 2023 by speedcake

[ExNihilo]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:13 PM, speedcake said:

And also again, unless you paid a total unknown a bunch of money with no protection (check, PP F&F, etc), there's even less reason to have nuked this thread and the reputation of the sales forum.

This is the part I found confusing.  I would presume that the transactions should have occurred with PP G&S (as that is the rule for sales threads).  If that's the case, it felt like people really jumped the gun on probation when it's something that could (granted with more effort than necessary) be filed with PayPal and refunded.  At that point, the only person who loses is the seller who has to pay the G&S fee no matter what.

On top of that, none of the responses indicated from the seller that they had confirmed the intent to .  There must have been behind the scene discussions because many claimed " per PM".  I don't know how many people actually got far enough in discussions to get PayPal details and issue payment, but as far as I could see, one person issued payment, but despite that it seems all calculations on how much was "paid" and not responded to were based on what books were claimed in this thread.  Again, I can only go off of what I see.  It's possible every person who claimed a book did in fact issue payment.  It's also equally likely that a few people waited for the end of the sales thread to pay their invoice at the end in case additional books were listed that they might be interested in.  My point being that unless more evidence is provided, only one person has legitimately spoken out that they were financially wronged, while all other potential buyers have yet to come forward with more than "he ghosted us before we could exchange assets."

None of this excuses the seller for ghosting.  I do think there is some leeway because you never know a persons circumstances.  If they really were hard for money, there could be a number of things that easily derail them.  Logging in and not responding to messages isn't a good look, but without a full picture, the level of judgement in such a short period of time felt extreme.  If you know others are counting on you to complete a transaction, you should strive to respond to those sales in a timely manner.  Full stop.  But that doesn't excuse members from violating Rule #1 of the HOS/PL Rules.

(NOTE: I still don't have all the information.  If it turns out more parties were aggrieved, then I'll revisit my opinion and change it accordingly.)

[Cornelius The First]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:13 PM, speedcake said:

It 100% has been a terrible look.  Its the worst thread I can remember ever seeing in the sales forums; and without any hard facts and evidence regarding the sellers situation or true intent, I think the dog piling went way overboard and far too quickly.

It has not been a civil thread by any stretch of the imagination, not even remotely up to the standards this forum should be striving for. The mods literally had to move it here because people couldn't help themselves and continued to blow up

If it turns out this guy, or someone else pretending to be him, indeed attempted a rip off job then rage on! But in the meantime, put the pitchforks away and grow up.

Regarding his being "active" on the forums, its meaningless. There are many reasons that might have caused his profile to show active without him actually being on the forums. He isn't posting anywhere else on the boards, we only have evidence of his replying one private message. We don't know he hasn't replied to more.  It's also perfectly possible that he saw the lynch mob and doesn't know how to respond. That's just conjecture on my part, but since he's not been given due process I'd not be surprised to learn he is gun-shy about responding to any allegations.

Maybe it turns out he's just a lazy person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed frog who didn't take his sales thread seriously, but maybe wait til we know that before causing all this silly kerfuffle.

And also again, unless you paid a total unknown a bunch of money with no protection (check, PP F&F, etc), there's even less reason to have nuked this thread and the reputation of the sales forum.  Be angry and disappointed, sure. but have a meltdown? Try meditation instead.

If you go back, I can agree there has been some lack of civility. I for one, and for that purpose, didn’t comment or offer an opinion until the thread was moved to this location. What concerns me is on the opposite hand, the immediate presumption that everything was well intentioned and he should be ‘given a break’ I’m still willing to accept the possibility that there was no hardcore Ill intent. Regardless, however, not responding after asking for help and having purchases made and making buyers ‘sweat it out’ is a bad look for how I feel about the boards. A place I’ve grown to love, and have worked exceedingly hard as a 3 year ‘newbie’ to establish a reputation of moral character and professional conduct. My two cents. Of which I’ve given plenty, but why is constructive discourse and disagreement always taken so personally? 

[Buzzetta]

We should all have a sing-a-long... 

c'mon... 

 

[Dr. Balls]

On 3/23/2023 at 4:17 PM, Randall Dowling said:

It's not posturing.  I don't think you're seeing how this whole thread looks.  I don't want to do business with anyone that would act this way.

To be clear, I'm not saying it's ideal to visit the boards and not respond to pms.  But I don't know the whole story behind the seller's circumstances.  And as I said before, it was less than a week before the torches and pitchforks came out.  You may think that's a reasonable response.  I think it's a pretty dramatic overreaction.  The foundation of this marketplace is trust and I don't see much of that here.  What I saw, was an immediate presumption of guilt.

This whole thread is a bad look for the boards.  If this is the way things are going here, I'm not sure how much I want to sell or buy here. 

I'm sorry you don't have any respect for my position.  You've always been good to work with and frankly, I was surprised to see your posts here.  But that's your position and you have a right to it.

If you look for an enemy, you'll find an enemy.  I'm not into that but YMMV.  I've had more success with trust and patience.

I can see it from your point of view, and it's not that I don't respect your position. I don't feel that I brought out any pitchforks whatsoever in my conversations here, and that's my issue with what has been said towards me. I kept my interactions limited, mostly because the only reason I am in this thread was because I was looking at books and got beat to the Take It on one of them. The only thing I've sounded off on here is A) Talking to a new member about how this is not a sketchy place to do business, B) posting up a couple gifs and C) responding to a post that people have valid concerns. I've not cast aspersions towards the seller, and have no need to - it's not my business. 

Maybe what I had said came off incorrectly. When I said "I would be acting the same way" as others in the thread, that was meant to be taken: "I'd be asking for updates on order status if the seller was around the Boards." It wasn't meant to be anything other than that. I'll accept that maybe my intentions got read wrong because I didn't communicate it properly and in the spirit of not trying to make this thread about myself and Randall, I will check out. 

 

 

[Cornelius The First]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:23 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I can see it from your point of view, and it's not that I don't respect your position. I don't feel that I brought out any pitchforks whatsoever in my conversations here, and that's my issue with what has been said towards me. I kept my interactions limited, mostly because the only reason I am in this thread was because I was looking at books and got beat to the Take It on one of them. The only thing I've sounded off on here is A) Talking to a new member about how this is not a sketchy place to do business, B) posting up a couple gifs and C) responding to a post that people have valid concerns. I've not cast aspersions towards the seller, and have no need to - it's not my business. 

Maybe what I had said came off incorrectly. When I said "I would be acting the same way" as others in the thread, that was meant to be taken: "I'd be asking for updates on order status if the seller was around the Boards." It wasn't meant to be anything other than that. I'll accept that maybe my intentions got read wrong because I didn't communicate it properly and in the spirit of not trying to make this thread about myself and Randall, I will check out. 

 

 

I dig it. Great response. I think I’ve said all that I can say as far as impartial opinions go and will take your lead in doing the same. Best wishes to all invested in this thread in an actual way. I hope this was a misunderstanding and those excellent books make their way to you all safely and securely. I don’t prefer to buy, sell, or trade anywhere else as collectively this is a comic lovers paradise. Best wishes to everyone unless you are truly a scoundrel…then I hope karma finds its way quickly to your doorstep. 

[pemart1966]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:34 PM, ExNihilo said:

This is the part I found confusing.  I would presume that the transactions should have occurred with PP G&S (as that is the rule for sales threads).  If that's the case, it felt like people really jumped the gun on probation when it's something that could (granted with more effort than necessary) be filed with PayPal and refunded.  At that point, the only person who loses is the seller who has to pay the G&S fee no matter what.

On top of that, none of the responses indicated from the seller that they had confirmed the intent to .  There must have been behind the scene discussions because many claimed " per PM".  I don't know how many people actually got far enough in discussions to get PayPal details and issue payment, but as far as I could see, one person issued payment, but despite that it seems all calculations on how much was "paid" and not responded to were based on what books were claimed in this thread.  Again, I can only go off of what I see.  It's possible every person who claimed a book did in fact issue payment.  It's also equally likely that a few people waited for the end of the sales thread to pay their invoice at the end in case additional books were listed that they might be interested in.  My point being that unless more evidence is provided, only one person has legitimately spoken out that they were financially wronged, while all other potential buyers have yet to come forward with more than "he ghosted us before we could exchange assets."

None of this excuses the seller for ghosting.  I do think there is some leeway because you never know a persons circumstances.  If they really were hard for money, there could be a number of things that easily derail them.  Logging in and not responding to messages isn't a good look, but without a full picture, the level of judgement in such a short period of time felt extreme.  If you know others are counting on you to complete a transaction, you should strive to respond to those sales in a timely manner.  Full stop.  But that doesn't excuse members from violating Rule #1 of the HOS/PL Rules.

(NOTE: I still don't have all the information.  If it turns out more parties were aggrieved, then I'll revisit my opinion and change it accordingly.)

Sorry but if you've got the time to log on - you've got the time to type a sentence explaining the situation.

BTW - do we even know whether these are his books?

[skypinkblu]

Is there still anyone who paid for a book and has not received it or gotten a valid tracking number? 

I'm not including people who made an offer which was not responded to...just people who paid.

 

[loganparker]

Out with the family this evening. I’ll post an update later tonight.

[KCOComics]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:13 PM, speedcake said:

It 100% has been a terrible look.  Its the worst thread I can remember ever seeing in the sales forums; and without any hard facts and evidence regarding the sellers situation or true intent, I think the dog piling went way overboard and far too quickly.

It has not been a civil thread by any stretch of the imagination, not even remotely up to the standards this forum should be striving for. The mods literally had to move it here because people couldn't help themselves and continued to blow up

If it turns out this guy, or someone else pretending to be him, indeed attempted a rip off job then rage on! But in the meantime, put the pitchforks away and grow up.

Regarding his being "active" on the forums, its meaningless. There are many reasons that might have caused his profile to show active without him actually being on the forums. He isn't posting anywhere else on the boards, we only have evidence of his replying one private message. We don't know he hasn't replied to more.  It's also perfectly possible that he saw the lynch mob and doesn't know how to respond. That's just conjecture on my part, but since he's not been given due process I'd not be surprised to learn he is gun-shy about responding to any allegations.
 

 

I agree. 

I can understand being frustrated about the lack of communication, but if you step back, unless someone tells us otherwise it seems like he shipped every book that was paid for in a reasonable amount of time.  

It felt like folks were quick to grab the pitch forks and I felt he was owed the benefit of the doubt, given the successful sales that had already taken place. 

Full transparency, I sent him an offer that wasn't responded to as well.  I didn't see the need to blast him. I just figured he wasn't interested in my offer and moved on. 

Edited March 24, 2023 by KCOComics

[RobHW]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:37 PM, Cornelius The First said:

Great response. I think I’ve said all that I can say as far as impartial opinions go and will take your lead in doing the same. Best wishes to all invested in this thread in an actual way. I hope this was a misunderstanding and those excellent books make their way to you all safely and securely. I don’t prefer to buy, sell, or trade anywhere else as collectively this is a comic lovers paradise. Best wishes to everyone unless you are truly a scoundrel…then I hope karma finds its way quickly to your doorstep. 

Well said and same from me.  Let's not do this again real soon.

[VintageComics]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:13 PM, speedcake said:

It 100% has been a terrible look.  Its the worst thread I can remember ever seeing in the sales forums; and without any hard facts and evidence regarding the sellers situation or true intent, I think the dog piling went way overboard and far too quickly.

It has not been a civil thread by any stretch of the imagination, not even remotely up to the standards this forum should be striving for. The mods literally had to move it here because people couldn't help themselves and continued to blow up

If it turns out this guy, or someone else pretending to be him, indeed attempted a rip off job then rage on! But in the meantime, put the pitchforks away and grow up.

Regarding his being "active" on the forums, its meaningless. There are many reasons that might have caused his profile to show active without him actually being on the forums. He isn't posting anywhere else on the boards, we only have evidence of his replying one private message. We don't know he hasn't replied to more.  It's also perfectly possible that he saw the lynch mob and doesn't know how to respond. That's just conjecture on my part, but since he's not been given due process I'd not be surprised to learn he is gun-shy about responding to any allegations.

Maybe it turns out he's just a lazy person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed frog who didn't take his sales thread seriously, but maybe wait til we know that before causing all this silly kerfuffle.

And also again, unless you paid a total unknown a bunch of money with no protection (check, PP F&F, etc), there's even less reason to have nuked this thread and the reputation of the sales forum.  Be angry and disappointed, sure. but have a meltdown? Try meditation instead.

 

On 3/23/2023 at 12:26 PM, Randall Dowling said:

 

 

 

You're all entitled to your opinions on the subject and I appreciate you sharing them.  For the record, very few people buying and selling on these boards are "professionals" but as a "professional" in my chosen career, I can tell you that "professionals" do not rush to judgement.  They do not assume things on short notice and react strongly as it is far too easy to be wrong and damage one's reputation in doing so.  This is a community of collectors that have busy family and work lives and the rules for the marketplace have been set up with that in mind.  And as of this moment, the seller has not violated any of the rules of this marketplace.  This  is not Amazon.  This is not Home Depot.  This is a group of people offering their books to fellow collectors instead of selling them to dealers or listing them at auction sites.

Some of you have maligned the seller in this thread pretty badly and if all of these transactions complete successfully, I believe you owe him an apology.  At the very least, you owe him an apology.

In the future, please do not claim any books in my sales threads.  I'm not interested in doing business with anyone that would act like this under these circumstances.

 

On 3/21/2023 at 3:53 PM, Randall Dowling said:

I've been watching this thread and the following stands out to me:

• This is a lot of freak out with less than a week having gone by since his last contact with buyers.
• As @skypinkblu has stated, most of this discussion belongs in a different thread.
• A few board members have already convicted this board member and our working on the penalty phase.
• If I was the seller and was seeing this, I'd want to cancel all transactions and never sell here again.

If this is a situation where the seller turns bad, then there are lots of ways to deal with that.  If it turns out they have a death in the family (or similar), there's no good way to take back what some have written here.  I think you guys should take a breath and give him a chance to get things sorted. 

I'm not sure what planet some of you live on but this is not how the world works..or at least now how the normal world is supposed to work OR USED TO WORK. 

The seller came here to ask for help in exchange for a reasonable service.

People bought books to help him.

He was happy to take the help but not happy enough to hold up his end of the bargain. That's not cool. 

Many years ago, I started a thread because a boardie was upset that I didn't reply to him in time and I asked what an acceptable amount of time was to reply to someone (incidentally, I had replied within 24 hours).

The general consensus was 24 hours. You reply within 24 hours and you're good. If you reply outside of 24 hours, it's considered sketchy. That wasn't MY conclusion. It's what THIS COMMUNITY CONCLUDED. 

This guy didn't just not reply, he was reading messages, logging into the boards but waiting a WEEK to a reply. That is more than sketchy, it's unacceptable. 

I had a business partner once who was slow to reply to messages and I told him the same thing: If you avoid contact or go AWOL you heighten everyone's anxiety. and compound the problem. If he has the time to log in and read messages he has the time to reply and say "My bad, I'm going through something can I get back to you in a few days."

Easy. Peasy.

ANYTHING other than that is disrespectful to the community here. 

There were no pitch forks. It's unreasonable to log in and read PMs but not respond for a week. 

It's not the community's responsibility to conform to an unreasonable person. 

It's the unreasonable person's responsibility to conform to a reasonable community. 

And why the two of you (and possibly others) would defend such poor behavior and try to flip the tables on a good, reasonable community that was trying to help this guy out is unreasonable and ridiculous.

Edited March 24, 2023 by VintageComics

[loganparker]

I think I had the most invested with this seller and will be happy to give a synopsis of what transpired with regards to my purchases.  I’ll post a summary tonight they should shed some light on the topic. 

[ExNihilo]

On 3/23/2023 at 5:54 PM, skypinkblu said:

Is there still anyone who paid for a book and has not received it or gotten a valid tracking number? 

I'm not including people who made an offer which was not responded to...just people who paid.

 

As far as I can tell, the only two people who have acknowledged sending payments appear to be loganparker and KryptoSpidey.

[skypinkblu]

On 3/23/2023 at 9:59 PM, loganparker said:

I think I had the most invested with this seller and will be happy to give a synopsis of what transpired with regards to my purchases.  I’ll post a summary tonight they should shed some light on the topic. 

That would be helpful. 

[skypinkblu]

On 3/23/2023 at 10:08 PM, ExNihilo said:

As far as I can tell, the only two people who have acknowledged sending payments appear to be loganparker and KryptoSpidey.

That's what I thought and I thought I saw a PM to Krypto telling him his books were going in the mail. 

[loganparker]

I'm going to share my experience with this purchase hoping that it will clarify exactly what took place (at least for me). I've been on the boards since 2015 and have made numerous purchases, including from many of you who posted in this thread. I believe paying punctually for a purchase should be expected and I've always done that with any books I've claimed. I too believe this is the best place to buy comics from reputable sellers and have never had an issue until this most recent purchase. I don't personally know the seller and have no hard feeling towards him. I'm going to present this in a timeline fashion because I believe that will best show what transpired.  

1/17 - Claimed the seller's Tales To Astonish 13 7.0 after negotiating a price via PM (I believe I previously posted I purchased a 5 figure book from him at this time, I meant 4 figure)

1/17 - Seller sent me a PayPal invoice for the agreed upon price

1/17 - I paid the seller the same day via PayPal Goods and Services

1/18 - Seller sent me a PM stating a snow storm was keeping him from the post office and he would ship as soon as he could

1/19 - Seller sent me a PM stating he shipped the book and provided tracking

1/21 - I received the book as described.  Seller notified.

3/3 - Seller sent me a PM offering his JIM 83 4.0 for a certain price (a book I mentioned to him previously I was interested in)

3/4 - I requested some close-up pics of the book (no response)

3/13 - I requested the pics again (pics were sent)

3/15 - Claimed the seller's JIM 83 4.0 after negotiating a price via PM

3/15 - Seller sent me a PayPal invoice for the agreed upon price

3/15 - I paid the seller the same day via PayPal Goods and Services

3/16 - Sent the seller a PM to confirm the payment was received on his end and ask when he would be shipping it (I tend to do this for larger purchases)...(no response)

3/17 - Sent another PM to confirm the payment was received (no response)

3/17 - KryptoSpidey made a post in his sales thread asking if I had heard from the seller (I responded no and I that I hoped everything was fine)

3/18 - I noticed on his profile it said he had visited the boards the previous day (3/17) at 10:09 AM

3/18 - I posted a pic of that and asked if that meant he had visited the boards...the response was that yes is does mean he was on the boards (still no response to my PMs)

3/19-3/20 - His profile indicated that he visited the boards at least 2 more times (still no response to my PMs)

3/21 (5:27 PM) - Received a PM from the seller saying "hey, sorry - kids were off for spring break. Bringing to the post office today. Will send the tracking shortly." Asked about his profile showing he had visited the boards and he stated he was never on the boards.  Seller sent me a tracking #...it was missing the first 4 digits but I was able to locate the tracking # through my USPS account.  I asked the seller if he sent it Priority Mail but never got a response.

3/23 - Book arrived as described in listing.  PM sent to seller to notify him.

Sorry for the lengthy post but I wanted all that were posting here to know exactly what transpired (at least with me).  I never disparaged the seller and was never concerned I wouldn't get a refund from PayPal if things didn't work out.  I don't expect books to be shipped immediately but do expect there to be communication between buyer and seller after the sale...especially for books of this price. However, what really was disconcerting was that his profile showed that he was visiting the boards but not responding to my PMs after I paid (whereas when we were negotiating the price, he was very responsive).  Maybe there's a glitch on the boards or maybe he was visiting...I'd like to believe he wasn't and there was something going on with his profile.  Either way, I'm happy to have both books and I'm sure he's happy to have my funds!

[speedcake]

On 3/23/2023 at 7:39 PM, Cornelius The First said:

 What concerns me is on the opposite hand, the immediate presumption that everything was well intentioned and he should be ‘given a break’ I’m still willing to accept the possibility that there was no hardcore Ill intent. 

It's just that there is a process in place for us to self police the sales forum, for all sides to have their opportunity to say their piece and that process was pretty much crapped on in this thread.  

[ExNihilo]

On 3/23/2023 at 11:09 PM, loganparker said:

However, what really was disconcerting was that his profile showed that he was visiting the boards but not responding to my PMs after I paid (whereas when we were negotiating the price, he was very responsive).  Maybe there's a glitch on the boards or maybe he was visiting...I'd like to believe he wasn't and there was something going on with his profile.  Either way, I'm happy to have both books and I'm sure he's happy to have my funds!

For future reference, within the thread for private messages, you can see when each user last viewed the message and if each message was read.  It is possible for a user to login, but not read their messages.

This is in no way an excuse for not responding, just wanted to point out that it is possible for someone to come onto the boards while not see a message.  I will also say this is the equivalent of the big giant red number on your phone denoting you have unread messages/email and missed calls.  It's hard to miss.

[speedcake]

On 3/23/2023 at 9:47 PM, VintageComics said:

 

 

 

And why the two of you (and possibly others) would defend such poor behavior and try to flip the tables on a good, reasonable community that was trying to help this guy out is unreasonable and ridiculous.

No one is defending anything or flipping any tables.  I can't possibly be rolling my eyes any harder in your direction. Nothing you said here adds anything constructive to the thread.