CGC’s OFFICIAL Mechanical Errors / Returns Policy 11 11

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:49 AM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Thank you for sharing your opinion and just like you I get it.

CGC has to evaluate what is the best option for them, but really should consider its customers as well. 

Sure there are going to be those who try to take advantage of the system.  Scammers are going to scam regardless of time frame. 

Do I really think they should offer more days? Depends.  14 days under most circumstances would be fine. However life can get in the way and for some it may not be enough.  Especially when they have been all over the place themselves.  Some submissions can take over a year to process.  Get sent to old address, fall off the tracking pages, international customers, etc. There are many things CGC needs to take into account why 14 days may not be long enough.  

Really most of this boils down to CGC realizing they have not been doing a good job as of late and it has been costly.  They are just trying to mitigate these costs. 

One of my last submissions (last year) had to make 3 round trips on some Signature Series books. Since this fiasco I have did not renew my membership and not sent anything else to them. 

Excellent points!  I mean listen we both know the best way to make changes is to vote with your wallet.  Bud light is learning that now for sure.

You know though what people sometimes fail do is pick up the phone and call them.  I mean how many times have we both seen people make a thread complaining about CGC and everyone is like, "well did you call CGC?"   OP is like not yet

[skypinkblu]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:34 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I am saying I do not think they are capable of fixing it.  That has been my stance on Newton Rings.

If you don't like how any company handles it, vote with your wallet no?

Why do you "assume" I have not?

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 3:41 PM, skypinkblu said:

Why do you "assume" I have not?

I assume if you are still on CGC boards you may still be using their services.

Cause if I was not using CGC anymore I sure as heck wouldn't be on their website.

[CAHokie]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:42 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I assume if you are still on CGC boards you may still be using their services.

Cause if I was not using CGC anymore I sure as heck wouldn't be on their website.

Is that because for you it’s only value is business? For Sky it’s a community. It’s people.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 3:47 PM, CAHokie said:

Is that because for you it’s only value is business? For Sky it’s a community. It’s people.

So CGC made the boards for the goodness of their hearts?

[skypinkblu]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:42 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I assume if you are still on CGC boards you may still be using their services.

Cause if I was not using CGC anymore I sure as heck wouldn't be on their website.

Well, that's you...it appeared to me you were always here connected with CGC as a business. I on the other hand, didn't slab a single book for a long time when I was here. I like to read them and I'm basically a collector, I had a different "job" this is my hobby.

Then I decided to slab the main part of my collection in case something happened to me, and I submitted a LOT of books.

Since the Newton Rings thing...I first slowed down and then stopped  buying anything except inexpensive raw books. I'll buy slabbed books if I like the way they look and the holder doesn't make them look like someone spilled Jello inside.

But I stay for the community...and I have no problem with the company other than I think they could solve the problem if it was important to them. I'm hoping it becomes more important once the newer people realize it means something to many of us. It's a business I would like to see do well, I have no animosity towards them other than I believe they sometimes make decisions when they don't understand the bigger picture.  That's a learning curve, not a hanging offense to me. I don't believe the new people were all comic collectors,  I think many were in businesses not necessarily related to comics.

 

[CAHokie]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:50 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So CGC made the boards for the goodness of their hearts?

You are combining two separate topics as if they have the same answer.

Edit: Sky explained it in the post above.

Edited May 18, 2023 by CAHokie

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 3:51 PM, CAHokie said:

You are combining two separate topics as if they have the same answer.

Why did CGC create the CGC boards?

Why did CGC create the registry?

Same answer. $$$$

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 3:51 PM, skypinkblu said:

Well, that's you...it appeared to me you were always here connected with CGC as a business. I on the other hand, didn't slab a single book for a long time when I was here. I like to read them and I'm basically a collector, I had a different "job" this is my hobby.

Then I decided to slab the main part of my collection in case something happened to me, and I submitted a LOT of books.

Since the Newton Rings thing...I first slowed down and then stopped  buying anything except inexpensive raw books. I'll buy slabbed books if I like the way they look and the holder doesn't make them look like someone spilled Jello inside.

But I stay for the community...and I have no problem with the company other than I think they could solve the problem if it was important to them. I'm hoping it becomes more important once the newer people realize it means something to many of us. It's a business I would like to see do well, I have no animosity towards them other than I believe they sometimes make decisions when they don't understand the bigger picture.  That's a learning curve, not a hanging offense to me. I don't believe the new people were all comic collectors,  I think many were in businesses not necessarily related to comics.

 

So if CGC is not fixing what some would call a problem with "Newton Rings" what does that tell you?

 

[CAHokie]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:53 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Why did CGC create the CGC boards?

Why did CGC create the registry?

Same answer. $$$$

Who cares why they created it? That’s irrelevant to why she isn’t gone since she is no longer slabbing.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 3:55 PM, CAHokie said:

Who cares why they created it? That’s irrelevant to why she isn’t gone since she is no longer slabbing.

You coming in mid-topic.

 

[skypinkblu]

On 5/18/2023 at 6:55 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So if CGC is not fixing what some would call a problem with "Newton Rings" what does that tell you?

I can't tell if you are a CGC supporter or a non supporter. 
I support them BECAUSE I like the forums...Do I know they created the forums to generate business? I'd have to be brain dead not to. Do I care? Absolutely not, I enjoy what I've learned here from other people and met many people here I like, so I stay. When I first came, I met the President who was at that time, a friend of a friend of mine. He was very eager to share knowledge. 

If CGC were a terrible horrible place, this thread would not be allowed. I give them a lot of cred for allowing opinions.

In any case...I told you why I stay, if you disagree...that's fine. 

[NewWorldOrder]

Many of you need a dose of reality.

CGC is only here to make as much $ as possible every fiscal year, they are not here to be your pal or friend. Now giving you the boards or the registry is nice bonus, but still a business tactic.

Most people in this hobby need CGC more than they need them.  Sorry that's just the hard truth.

To think otherwise is delusional.

Again vote with your wallet, but many of you coming on here complaining while you're still making money hand over fist is a joke.

Most submitters are replaceable because they have no true competition so either stop submitting to CGC, open up your own grading company, or take your seat.

I know some of you think your 20 book a year submission is a big deal, and gives you this soap box to stand on and complain, but it really doesn't make a difference.

You think CGC would miss me if I stopped submitting?  Probably not.

I mean listen CGC obviously cares about their cusotmers, but up to a certain point they have their limits like most companies.

Edited May 18, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[Ryan.]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:05 PM, skypinkblu said:

I can't tell if you are a CGC supporter or a non supporter. 

I found a picture of him.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 4:26 PM, Ryan. said:

I found a picture of him.

You forgot the CGC tattoo I have on my neck now.

[Foolkiller]

Lots said already in this thread and I'm not sure if I can really add much new.  

This decision seems like a good business move by CGC in terms of their P&L -- it's somewhat divisive in terms of the policies, but as a business decision this all makes complete sense.  Let's say they're even factoring in losing a small percentage of customers over it, it still financially works out in their favor.  

Many folks swear off CGC but I've yet to see any huge needle moving submitter vocally say hey will no longer submit as a result of this adjustment because if you're a large submitter, you likely aren't all that upset about this alteration to the mechanical error policy.  

Many have said, vote with your wallet, and that includes, if you are so inclined, not buying CGC books either, because it only perpetuates acceptability in the marketplace.  But most collectors are addicts or their pockets are still being lined by CGC. 

I think there's a sentiment from some that CGC is around to help better the hobby (it isn't, it's a by-product and a sales tactic) or help the collector.  These are remnants from long gone era that Borock created when he was the President in order to help get everyone indoctrinated to CGC -- and it worked.  We're all hooked.  Hooked so badly that it'd be hard to ever imagine any truly legitimate competition.  

There was a time when the opinion of the boards mattered and it could actually affect how CGC might respond.  Those days days have long since passed and that's normal and natural.  It's the evolution of the business and it's grown as it should -- it grades your books and returns them to you.  

You don't like Newton Rings?  Sorry, that's the way it is.  What incentive is there to correct, you have no where else to go.

You don't like our mechanical error policy?  Too bad.

Think complaining will help? You represent too little of the business percentage to matter to. change policy, so look yourself in the mirror and remind yourself that what you say here doesn't matter to CGC. 

Think stopping your submission will matter?  It doesn't, it's just going to keep going.  But it does matter to you.  You don't have to give them your money.  YOU have a choice.  

But if you think that posting here or complaining about the policies really matters to them, it doesn't.  

Personally, I'm glad they're cracking down on mechanical errors and returns -- and I'm glad they're not accepting Newton Rings returns anymore.  If you want a CGC book, you're going to have to get used to some Newton Rings now.  No more catering to the whims of the OCD collector who doesn't like them.  There's a number on a case and you got what you paid for.  

I will say that Sharon is right in that if you're on the Boards, you don't have to agree or be a CGC submitter.  You have every right to say whatever here on these boards, and you don't need to be a submitter and you can enjoy this community for what it is.  But they allow these threads and complaints because, quite literally, they have no meaningful impact and they truly don't matter or impact them.  It isn't out of generosity this thread has survived, but out of pure ambivalence from CGC and the total lack of impact it has to the actual business they operate.  

CGC is the mob.  As they say in Goodfellas, oh you have some Newton Rings? F you.  Pay me.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Foolkiller

[troydivision1]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:12 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I know some of you think your 20 book a year submission is a big deal, and gives you this soap box to stand on and complain.

This 'hot take' irks me.
No matter the size of your submission every customer should be allowed to voice their concerns about a product and not be belittled.
Different people have different levels of discretionary income.
So, even submitting one or two books could be a big deal.

Question for CGC / @CGC Mike -
How is this being communicated to LCSs / eBay presellers that submit on behalf of customers?
I remember Big Time Collectibles referenced resubmitting the CGC exclusive gold foil Superman books back to CGC multiple times and then still shipping out subpar books / cases they got back.
And those were CGC branded...

Edited May 19, 2023 by troy.division

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 4:05 PM, skypinkblu said:

I can't tell if you are a CGC supporter or a non supporter. 
I support them BECAUSE I like the forums...Do I know they created the forums to generate business? I'd have to be brain dead not to. Do I care? Absolutely not, I enjoy what I've learned here from other people and met many people here I like, so I stay. When I first came, I met the President who was at that time, a friend of a friend of mine. He was very eager to share knowledge. 

If CGC were a terrible horrible place, this thread would not be allowed. I give them a lot of cred for allowing opinions.

In any case...I told you why I stay, if you disagree...that's fine. 

Yes I need CGC more than they need me

I dont disagree, I was more answering your question about Newton Rings.  You voted with your wallet which is all you can do, and if enough people do so maybe they will change that as well as with anything else people has voiced their displeasure over.  I mean if they stop getting submissions they will lower their asking price right? 

I agree with you that is an extreme "Newton Ring" example.  However, for me personally most newton rings books don't bother me, but I can understand why it bothers others.   I also think most books still look better in a Mylar, so I always say crack the book out and just save the grade paper. IMO

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 5:02 PM, troy.division said:

This 'hot take' irks me.
No matter the size of your submission every customer should be allowed to voice their concerns about a product and not be belittled.
Different people have different levels of discretionary income.
So, even submitting one or two books could be a big deal.

 

For some people it is a big deal, that doesn't change the facts that most submitters are still interchangeable with one another.

That submitter isn't moving the needle for the company.  I never said you CAN'T voice your opinion I am saying it carry's little weight.

Not an insult just reality.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 5:02 PM, Foolkiller said:

Lots said already in this thread and I'm not sure if I can really add much new.  

This decision seems like a good business move by CGC in terms of their P&L -- it's somewhat divisive in terms of the policies, but as a business decision this all makes complete sense.  Let's say they're even factoring in losing a small percentage of customers over it, it still financially works out in their favor.  

Many folks swear off CGC but I've yet to see any huge needle moving submitter vocally say hey will no longer submit as a result of this adjustment because if you're a large submitter, you likely aren't all that upset about this alteration to the mechanical error policy.  

Many have said, vote with your wallet, and that includes, if you are so inclined, not buying CGC books either, because it only perpetuates acceptability in the marketplace.  But most collectors are addicts or their pockets are still being lined by CGC. 

I think there's a sentiment from some that CGC is around to help better the hobby (it isn't, it's a by-product and a sales tactic) or help the collector.  These are remnants from long gone era that Borock created when he was the President in order to help get everyone indoctrinated to CGC -- and it worked.  We're all hooked.  Hooked so badly that it'd be hard to ever imagine any truly legitimate competition.  

There was a time when the opinion of the boards mattered and it could actually affect how CGC might respond.  Those days days have long since passed and that's normal and natural.  It's the evolution of the business and it's grown as it should -- it grades your books and returns them to you.  

You don't like Newton Rings?  Sorry, that's the way it is.  What incentive is there to correct, you have no where else to go.

You don't like our mechanical error policy?  Too bad.

Think complaining will help? You represent too little of the business percentage to matter to. change policy, so look yourself in the mirror and remind yourself that what you say here doesn't matter to CGC. 

Think stopping your submission will matter?  It doesn't, it's just going to keep going.  But it does matter to you.  You don't have to give them your money.  YOU have a choice.  

But if you think that posting here or complaining about the policies really matters to them, it doesn't.  

Personally, I'm glad they're cracking down on mechanical errors and returns -- and I'm glad they're not accepting Newton Rings returns anymore.  If you want a CGC book, you're going to have to get used to some Newton Rings now.  No more catering to the whims of the OCD collector who doesn't like them.  There's a number on a case and you got what you paid for.  

I will say that Sharon is right in that if you're on the Boards, you don't have to agree or be a CGC submitter.  You have every right to say whatever here on these boards, and you don't need to be a submitter and you can enjoy this community for what it is.  But they allow these threads and complaints because, quite literally, they have no meaningful impact and they truly don't matter or impact them.  It isn't out of generosity this thread has survived, but out of pure ambivalence from CGC and the total lack of impact it has to the actual business they operate.  

CGC is the mob.  As they say in Goodfellas, oh you have some Newton Rings? F you.  Pay me.

Bingo Ladies and Gentlemen.

Mic drop