CGC’s OFFICIAL Mechanical Errors / Returns Policy 11 11

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/16/2023 at 6:50 PM, JollyComics said:

You have increased prices and made stricter policies in last few years BUT you have NOT improved Quality Control for a long time.  Returning within 14 days is NEVER enough and is NOT 100% justified or satisfied.

A prolonged QC problems haven't solved and you are trying to cut down losses while you have increased the prices to make up upon the losses.   Please fix QC problems!

 

Curious in your opinion how long should CGC take to fix lets say a cracked slab in the mail from shipping? 

Example you receive a box from CGC and one of slabs is cracked, what is the total time they should allow for you to send that book back to get reholdered free of charge for ME? 

Assume you received the damaged CGC book May 1, 2023.

Edited May 18, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:59 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Curious in your opinion how long should CGC take to fix lets say a cracked slab in the mail from shipping? 

Example you receive a box from CGC and one of slabs is cracked, what is the total time they should allow for you to send that book back to get reholdered free of charge for ME? 

Assume you received the damaged CGC book May 1, 2023.

I know you didn't quote me, but figured I would weigh in. What else is an open internet chat board good for?

In general. 

Most companies that accept returns, offer the standard 30 return policy. 

The best offer 90-120 days.. (which are companies that really stand by their products/service. )  

I do realize these are just blanket policies and do not apply to everything.  Nor should they, but if CGC wants to truly be the absolute best 14 days is not what the best companies offer.

 

Definitely not looking for some "Lifetime" warranty as those are usually just gimmicks anyway..

CGC's new Unlimited Lifetime Slab ! 

For a set price offer unlimited lifetime reslabbing .

Got a crack in the case while moving?

Want that newest custom label ?

Want to upgrade to the newest holder? 

 

 

[JollyComics]

On 5/17/2023 at 10:59 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Curious in your opinion how long should CGC take to fix lets say a cracked slab in the mail from shipping? 

Example you receive a box from CGC and one of slabs is cracked, what is the total time they should allow for you to send that book back to get reholdered free of charge for ME? 

Assume you received the damaged CGC book May 1, 2023.

I don't ship large shipment like 25 books at once (my last large shipment four years ago).  My average is about 20 books a year in 5 different shipments.  Came back with only three flaws in the cases:  the case was popped open, wrong label and multiple debris trapped inside the case.  All of them were free of charge.  Last one was February this year.

[Figment]

I don't really care about CGC's return policy because we stopped using them altogether in late 2021 when the QC issues became too much to deal with.

It's nice to know I made the right choice, but surprising to find the company continuing down that spiral.   (Insert flushing noise here.)   Besides, the other guys case is an order of magnitude better!

See ya, wouldn't want to be ya!

Edited May 18, 2023 by Figment

[awakeintheashes]

On 5/17/2023 at 11:59 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Curious in your opinion how long should CGC take to fix lets say a cracked slab in the mail from shipping? 

Example you receive a box from CGC and one of slabs is cracked, what is the total time they should allow for you to send that book back to get reholdered free of charge for ME? 

Assume you received the damaged CGC book May 1, 2023.

A 30 calendar-day window seems appropriate and in line with what many larger companies offer. I’m not expecting them them to be Costco and have an extremely generous 90-day window with barely any questions asked. 

It usually takes me 2-3 weeks to transfer my larger subs from the CGC packaging into my CGC storage boxes. 

At some point it is on the customer to take some responsibility, but 14 calendar days seems borderline unreasonable. 

[workingdog]

One thing about M.E. returns which I would like to see.  Let's say you send in a book for grading and also requested imaging.  Thing is, you get the book back and it's Mislabeled.  In turn, Imaging then sends a pic of your slab with the flawed label.  Well, that image is of no use to me.

You can request an M.E. but when I asked if the book would be re-imaged, I was told "No."  I don't think this is right.  Because CGC couldn't get it right the first time, I get a bad image.  I think if you have to send back a slab as an M.E. and said slab was previously imaged, CGC should re-image the book for you (at no cost).

The only alternative is to pay to have the book reholdered and where you are then given the option to have the slab re-imaged. 

[Stefan_W]

I've mulled this over since the announcement and had some time to cool down from my initial frustration. Here is where I am at right now.

I don't care at all about minor price increases (other people seem to, which is why I am mentioning it). I do care about quality control because I can't sell slabs with scuffing in the inner well or ones with newton rings without giving significant discounts. It also costs me a fortune in shipping and fees to send in books for reholdering. The changes in ME policy mean that I trust the process less and that I will send far fewer books in - but I will still be sending some. I will simply sell a lot more books as raw and live with that process. I will also stop buying from auction houses that do not note slab imperfections in their listings. 

Because I will be sending fewer books in it no longer makes sense to maintain my current level of membership. The base one is fine for sending in a few slabs here and there. 

So nothing Earth-shattering I guess. A general loss of trust in the quality of the product leading to a bit less business. Life goes on. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by Stefan_W

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:10 AM, JollyComics said:

I don't ship large shipment like 25 books at once (my last large shipment four years ago).  My average is about 20 books a year in 5 different shipments.  Came back with only three flaws in the cases:  the case was popped open, wrong label and multiple debris trapped inside the case.  All of them were free of charge.  Last one was February this year.

So you had a problem they fixed it free of charge, and since I would assume you open your CGC boxes within a day of receiving them then 14 days sounds reasonable to me right?

I submit about 1200-1500 books a year, min of a 102 per month.  When I get my books back I open the box and if I see real ME's I mail them back within a week.  14-days is more than enough time and very reasonable timeframe.  It's just a return policy that most retailers have.

Personally over the last year and a half I have seen way less ME's and QC problems on my books.  Again maybe I am getting lucky, but that is what I have seen on my end at least.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 5:17 AM, Figment said:

I don't really care about CGC's return policy because we stopped using them altogether in late 2021 when the QC issues became too much to deal with.

It's nice to know I made the right choice, but surprising to find the company continuing down that spiral.   (Insert flushing noise here.)   Besides, the other guys case is an order of magnitude better!

See ya, wouldn't want to be ya!

but yet you post on their message boards?

 

[manetteska]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:07 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

So you had a problem they fixed it free of charge, and since I would assume you open your CGC boxes within a day of receiving them then 14 days sounds reasonable to me right?

I submit about 1200-1500 books a year, min of a 102 per month.  When I get my books back I open the box and if I see real ME's I mail them back within a week.  14-days is more than enough time and very reasonable timeframe.  It's just a return policy that most retailers have.

Personally over the last year and a half I have seen way less ME's and QC problems on my books.  Again maybe I am getting lucky, but that is what I have seen on my end at least.

That's because submitting to CGC and opening CGC boxes (and subsequently selling CGC slabs) is your job, or at least a very sizeable portion of income.

For, I would think, the majority of submitters, it is a hobby and rushing to get the box (maybe no one was home and it's at the PO or an off-site UPS office or through a comic shop), opening the box, and closely inspecting every book is not at the top of their list.

[I like pie]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:07 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

So you had a problem they fixed it free of charge, and since I would assume you open your CGC boxes within a day of receiving them then 14 days sounds reasonable to me right?

I submit about 1200-1500 books a year, min of a 102 per month.  When I get my books back I open the box and if I see real ME's I mail them back within a week.  14-days is more than enough time and very reasonable timeframe.  It's just a return policy that most retailers have.

Personally over the last year and a half I have seen way less ME's and QC problems on my books.  Again maybe I am getting lucky, but that is what I have seen on my end at least.

You're a good seller. Most flippers don't care about the QC issues. A 9.8 is a 9.8 and they don't care about the smudges, scratches or newton rings. Flippers are the main source of income to CGC, so until they stare caring more about the quality the product,  things will only get worse.

Edited May 18, 2023 by I like pie

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/17/2023 at 9:58 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

I know you didn't quote me, but figured I would weigh in. What else is an open internet chat board good for?

In general. 

Most companies that accept returns, offer the standard 30 return policy. 

The best offer 90-120 days.. (which are companies that really stand by their products/service. )  

I do realize these are just blanket policies and do not apply to everything.  Nor should they, but if CGC wants to truly be the absolute best 14 days is not what the best companies offer.

 

 

 

First, I totally get your initial reasoning, trust me I do.

However, IMO 14 days is a perfectly reasonable time frame for CGC to give me the customer time to inspect my books after grading and inform them there is a problem.  I think we can agree most people are excited to get their books back from CGC and open up the box like its Christmas Day the same day they receive the package.  So 14-days to complete the online paperwork, package the books up, and drop them off at Fedex seems like a reasonable time frame to me.

Now here is a good example of why 30-day return window is a bad time frame for them. Lets say a reseller gets a CGC box back on May 1, 2023.  Reseller sells 2 of them to the same customer from an eBay auction.  eBay buyer gets the box and USPS now damaged the CGC cases or the books in shipping.  Ebay buyer then returns the CGC books back to the reseller by May 20, 2023.  So reseller can literally get the books back from that buyer and make a fraud claim that they got them in the mail like that from CGC, and get them re-holdered free of charge or credit from the damage of the books. 

30-days is way too long to give the customer time to take advantage of enacting a fraudulent lie.  I can give other examples, but that one came me to me right away.  I mean you could literally take your books to a friends house and you alone could drop the books and crack the case and just say they came like that from CGC.  See what I mean?

 

[manetteska]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:26 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

First, I totally get your initial reasoning, trust me I do.

However, IMO 14 days is a perfectly reasonable time frame for CGC to give me the customer time to inspect my books after grading and inform them there is a problem.  I think we can agree most people are excited to get their books back from CGC and open up the box like its Christmas Day the same day they receive the package.  So 14-days to complete the online paperwork, package the books up, and drop them off at Fedex seems like a reasonable time frame to me.

Now here is a good example of why 30-day return window is a bad time frame for them. Lets say a reseller gets a CGC box back on May 1, 2023.  Reseller sells 2 of them to the same customer from an eBay auction.  eBay buyer gets the box and USPS now damaged the CGC cases or the books in shipping.  Ebay buyer then returns the CGC books back to the reseller by May 20, 2023.  So reseller can literally get the books back from that buyer and make a fraud claim that they got them in the mail like that from CGC, and get them re-holdered free of charge or credit from the damage of the books. 

30-days is way too long to give the customer time to take advantage of enacting a fraudulent lie.  I can give other examples, but that one came me to me right away.  I mean you could literally take your books to a friends house and you alone could drop the books and crack the case and just say they came like that from CGC.  See what I mean?

 

So you'd rather jump to fraud and lying on an imaginary submitter than hold the original company responsible for their own product and their own QC department? Even with a 14-day window the same lying and fraud can happen; give me a break.

For someone with a well-documented symbiotic relationship with CGC it shouldn't come as a surprise the ways you continue to contort yourself to accept whatever CGC feeds you.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:15 AM, I like pie said:

You're a good seller. Most flippers don't care about the QC issues. A 9.8 is a 9.8 and they don't care about the smudges, scratches or newton rings. Flippers are the main source of income to CGC, so until they stare caring more about the quality the product,  things will only get worse.

Thank you.

Now here is the thing for me there is a difference between obvious ME's and OCD nutjobs when it comes to CGC cases.

I am not going to return a book to CGC for 1cm scratch on the bottom of the back of the case. That does not bother me, nor Newton Rings.  If a seller provides nice front and backs scans then its up to the buyer to determine their comfort level of wanting to bid or not. 

In the past I have sold CGC books with some debris or a a piece of hair in the case, however I take close up picture of it and inform the buyers that its there and they can bid accordingly. 

[JollyComics]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:07 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

So you had a problem they fixed it free of charge, and since I would assume you open your CGC boxes within a day of receiving them then 14 days sounds reasonable to me right?

I submit about 1200-1500 books a year, min of a 102 per month.  When I get my books back I open the box and if I see real ME's I mail them back within a week.  14-days is more than enough time and very reasonable timeframe.  It's just a return policy that most retailers have.

Personally over the last year and a half I have seen way less ME's and QC problems on my books.  Again maybe I am getting lucky, but that is what I have seen on my end at least.

Two of them were right away after opening the boxes.  Third copy was fine until I re-organized my comic stock.  The front case was immediately fell off.  I thought I had to re-submit for the new reholder but I decided to call and explain it to them.  They told me to go ahead to print the label under ME and ship it back without any charge.  That was over 14 day frame but I was lucky.

You are lucky with low turnover so far.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:15 AM, manetteska said:

That's because submitting to CGC and opening CGC boxes (and subsequently selling CGC slabs) is your job, or at least a very sizeable portion of income.

For, I would think, the majority of submitters, it is a hobby and rushing to get the box (maybe no one was home and it's at the PO or an off-site UPS office or through a comic shop), opening the box, and closely inspecting every book is not at the top of their list.

The vast majority of people are usually anxious with excitement to get their books back.

Edited May 18, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:33 AM, manetteska said:

So you'd rather jump to fraud and lying on an imaginary submitter than hold the original company responsible for their own product and their own QC department? Even with a 14-day window the same lying and fraud can happen; give me a break.

For someone with a well-documented symbiotic relationship with CGC it shouldn't come as a surprise the ways you continue to contort yourself to accept whatever CGC feeds you.

So you are telling me only a small percentage of people would take advantage of a 30-day window?

Now throwing insults at me I think is unwarranted for a reasonable conversation no?

[MR SigS]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:35 AM, workingdog said:

One thing about M.E. returns which I would like to see.  Let's say you send in a book for grading and also requested imaging.  Thing is, you get the book back and it's Mislabeled.  In turn, Imaging then sends a pic of your slab with the flawed label.  Well, that image is of no use to me.

You can request an M.E. but when I asked if the book would be re-imaged, I was told "No."  I don't think this is right.  Because CGC couldn't get it right the first time, I get a bad image.  I think if you have to send back a slab as an M.E. and said slab was previously imaged, CGC should re-image the book for you (at no cost).

The only alternative is to pay to have the book reholdered and where you are then given the option to have the slab re-imaged. 

This just happened to me. I'll keep the image as a reminder- I paid for it, so I may as well put it to good use.

I'm fortunate they're just now putting this policy into place since I waited a couple weeks to return it. I work a 12-hour day shift, so this policy invites more than one headache.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 5/18/2023 at 8:37 AM, Stefan_W said:

I've mulled this over since the announcement and had some time to cool down from my initial frustration. Here is where I am at right now.

I don't care at all about minor price increases (other people seem to, which is why I am mentioning it). I do care about quality control because I can't sell slabs with scuffing in the inner well or ones with newton rings without giving significant discounts. It also costs me a fortune in shipping and fees to send in books for reholdering. The changes in ME policy mean that I trust the process less and that I will send far fewer books in - but I will still be sending some. I will simply sell a lot more books as raw and live with that process. I will also stop buying from auction houses that do not note slab imperfections in their listings. 

Because I will be sending fewer books in it no longer makes sense to maintain my current level of membership. The base one is fine for sending in a few slabs here and there. 

So nothing Earth-shattering I guess. A general loss of trust in the quality of the product leading to a bit less business. Life goes on. 

I am glad you have had time to calm down.  

So since you are nice and calm now, let me ask you.

For a book that was graded lets say in 2010 and potentially changed hands a couple times there is probably going to be some case imperfections over the time.  Are you saying you are wanting all auction houses or sellers to also disclose the case imperfections as well?

[I like pie]

On 5/18/2023 at 11:36 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

Thank you.

Now here is the thing for me there is a difference between obvious ME's and OCD nutjobs when it comes to CGC cases.

I am not going to return a book to CGC for 1cm scratch on the bottom of the back of the case. That does not bother me, nor Newton Rings.  If a seller provides nice front and backs scans then its up to the buyer to determine their comfort level of wanting to bid or not. 

In the past I have sold CGC books with some debris or a a piece of hair in the case, however I take close up picture of it and inform the buyers that its there and they can bid accordingly. 

Unfortunately,  most of these defects do not show in a scan.