Seller sold an incomplete book to me - How would you respond? 10 10

[O Doyle Rules]

I purchased a Golden Age comic recently from an eBay seller which turned out to be incomplete (Missing centerfold). Prior to purchasing, the seller assured me the comic book was complete and that it also had no restoration. The comic was purchased for $400.00 plus sales tax. My intent when purchasing the comic was to send it off to CGC for grading. I did not inspect the comic or handle it since my intent was to get it graded and I did not want to cause any inadvertent damage to the comic. It was shipped off to CGC as received from the seller. I found out that the comic was not complete when the grading came in. They gave the comic a Qualified grade (green label) due to the centerfold missing. 

I contacted the seller and advised him of the situation. At first, he was responsive and ending up offering a partial refund of $100.00. I advised him that I did not feel that was adequate given the circumstances. I would have never purchased the comic had I known the comic was incomplete. I provided him some recent data from GPA which showed the comic would be valued way less than what I even paid for the raw copy. I responded back by asking for my money back plus the grading cost and I would return the graded comic to him. Or, I would accept a partial refund of $250.00 and keep the book. It was at this point, things went south. He basically said $100.00, take it or leave it - more so due to the length of time than anything else. He was informed approximately 60 days from the time I purchased the comic.

I contacted eBay and they advised their money back guarantee does not apply since it is over 30 days. They did feel my request to resolve the issue was more than reasonable and that the seller should provide the partial refund or take the comic back for a full refund. eBay indicated that the seller could have his account suspended and his ability to sell on eBay could be impacted if he does not resolve the issue. I advised seller of what eBay said and now he has gone completely silent - no response whatsoever. 

I followed up with eBay to report the seller's actions and they are reaching out to him directly. Any advice from this Forum? All thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated. Thank you! 

[theCapraAegagrus]

This is a no-win situation considering that you didn't inspect the product yourself. While most logic points to the seller misrepresenting an incomplete book, there's no certainty that this is the case.

As an outsider, I say take the $100 partial refund and learn from your mistake.

[Grendel72]

I agree that the seller should set things right. Having said that, I do not think it's fair for the seller to pay for grading costs. I would settle for whatever you paid for the book plus shipping and tax. 

[ramrodcar]

Tough one, who's to say that you or CGC didn't damage the book; since you didn't page count it before sending off to CGC it's really a he-said-she-said issue.

Seller should not be liable for any of your cost to send to CGC, however any seller worth anything, who cares about their reputation, would likely offer a reasonable refund at least. I feel that based on the time that $100 is the minimum of reasonable in this instance.

[Funnybooks]

Ask for a full refund. This copy would be dead to me given the circumstances.

[Robot Man]

ALWAYS check out any book you buy from an internet sale or even a live show. Could have been an honest (although sloppy) mistake on the seller side. But you not catching it when you received it is on you. Sorry…

If you had, a full (or partial refund if you decided to go that route), would have been a pretty easy solution.

No way the seller should pay your grading cost. That was your decision, not his. Unless he offers it in his terms.

Sorry, it has happened to me too. I just did my part and got it resolved quickly. 

[iggykoopa]

How do you not inspect the book?! I know you said he told you it was complete but you still have to do your due diligence. If you catch it upfront when you first got the book then this is a non-issue. Sorry for everything but it's a (relatively) cheap lesson to learn for next time. Good luck!

[Lightning55]

What @Robot Man said.

[O Doyle Rules]

I agree with everyone in that I should have not assumed the seller was accurate when he indicated that the comic was complete. However, I did ask him directly by message prior to buying. He was clear that the comic was complete with no cutouts. I had no reason to doubt him since he was a long term eBay seller with 100% feedback. I definitely viewed that the chances of me causing damage to the comic was greater than any possibility of the comic not being complete since he was certain about the condition. This is definitely not a he said she said situation. Also, I feel the facts are almost 100% certain as there is just no likely scenario where I removed the centerfold or CGC would. I also verfied to the seller with photos it was indeed the same comic after I got it back from CGC. It had several distinguishing cover defects 

With all that being said, what's a fair resolution? I feel at best I may be 10% responsible for what's occurred since I did not do a page count when I got the comic. I could have received a blue Univeral Label with a grade of 0.5. I am not sure why I got a Qualified grade of 3.5 noting the defect that the centerfold is missing. There were recent sales on GPA for a Qualfied 3.0 and a 0.5 incomplete. The average for those were below $150.00. Given all the facts, I still feel that a $250.00 refund is a very reasonable ask. I will accept a full refund without my CGC costs. I feel though I should probably have the comic removed from the slab and just return the raw comic if he ever responds. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by O Doyle Rules

[eastriver400]

Ask for full refund and return the book graded.  Eat the grading costs and move on. Anything less than a full refund and make it your life’s mission to get him suspended from ebay, and ruin his name as a seller. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:09 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

With all that being said, what's a fair resolution? I feel at best I may be 10% responsible for what's occurred since I did not do a page count when I got the comic.

Not to here, but you're 100% responsible for this situation by not inspecting the product within the return window.

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:34 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Not to here, but you're 100% responsible for this situation by not inspecting the product within the return window.

Agree to disagree. I do bear some responsibility, not 100%. 

Are you familiar with the tort principle, Comparative Negligence?

"Comparative negligence is a tort principle used by the court to reduce the amount of damages that a plaintiff can recover in a negligence-based claim according to the degree of negligence each party contributed to the incident."

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:44 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Agree to disagree. I do bear some responsibility, not 100%. 

Are you familiar with the tort principle, Comparative Negligence?

"Comparative negligence is a tort principle used by the court to reduce the amount of damages that a plaintiff can recover in a negligence-based claim according to the degree of negligence each party contributed to the incident."

This is where "He Said, She Said" comes into play. The seller claimed that this was complete at sale, and CGC marked it incomplete at a different end of business. Without your inspection, how can we conclude that the seller is negligent at all?

[jimjum12]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:09 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Also, I feel the facts are almost 100% certain as there is just no likely scenario where I removed the centerfold

Actually, that used to happen a lot ... a person has a copy with no centerfold, and sends it back for a refund when he receives a complete one, claiming it was the "good" one, although not as described. Ebay used to favor the buyer a bit, so it was an instant reaming for the seller. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 1:57 PM, theCapraAegagrus said:

This is where "He Said, She Said" comes into play. The seller claimed that this was complete at sale, and CGC marked it incomplete at a different end of business. Without your inspection, how can we conclude that the seller is negligent at all?

Wow!

Now you're suggesting I removed the centerfold or CGC did - what is our motive? What possible likely scenario could the centerfold become missing after in my care or CGC's? If anything, since a respected third party expert deemed the comic to be incomplete it could even bolster my case. 

 

[O Doyle Rules]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:08 PM, jimjum12 said:

Actually, that used to happen a lot ... a person has a copy with no centerfold, and sends it back for a refund when he receives a complete one, claiming it was the "good" one, although not as described. Ebay used to favor the buyer a bit, so it was an instant reaming for the seller. GOD BLESS ...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

Except I can prove 100% it is the same comic book with the distinguishing defects on the cover. 

[jimjum12]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:12 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Except I can prove 100% it is the same comic book with the distinguishing defects on the cover. 

You should have checked and verified it yourself, it's called "due diligence" in legal-speak. If it helps, I've made that mistake myself. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:11 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Wow!

Now you're suggesting I removed the centerfold or CGC did - what is our motive? What possible likely scenario could the centerfold become missing after in my care or CGC's? If anything, since a respected third party expert deemed the comic to be incomplete it could even bolster my case.

I cannot speak to the motive(s) of others, but if you're going to reference comparative negligence, then it's prudent to consider every answer.

[O Doyle Rules]

Wow! I certainly I hope I am never falsely accused of a crime and then find some of the posters on this forum on the jury! 

Permission to use an analogy to see if your logic holds water. 

You buy a used 2022 Tesla from a dealership. The Tesla dealer selling it to you tells you the car has been checked and is working 100% as it should. You do no independent inspection of the Tesla yourself. Sixty days later the car battery blows up in your garage and your house burns down. By your logic, the Tesla dealer bears no responsibility since you did not do your own inspection after taking delivery of the vehicle. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 5/23/2023 at 2:35 PM, O Doyle Rules said:

Wow! I certainly I hope I am never falsely accused of a crime and then find some of the posters on this forum on the jury! 

Permission to use an analogy to see if your logic holds water. 

You buy a used 2022 Tesla from a dealership. The Tesla dealer selling it to you tells you the car has been checked and is working 100% as it should. You do no independent inspection of the Tesla yourself. Sixty days later the car battery blows up in your garage and your house burns down. By your logic, the Tesla dealer bears no responsibility since you did not do your own inspection after taking delivery of the vehicle. 

I think you're conflating assuming the seller's innocence with assuming your guilt.

If you had a 30-day warranty and you didn't drive it once until it blew up, how could we conclude that it was the Tesla dealership's fault?