ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Sigur Ros]

Matt:  "Mike, could you tell them something?"

Mike:

[jcjames]

On 12/22/2023 at 6:12 PM, mjoeyoung said:

There already seem to be plenty of book scanners that automatically flip the pages to digitize them.  I don't think it would take too much to make them "safe" for the majority of books.  You don't need to create a human-like robotic finger to flip the pages, you can use a wheel or suction.

 

 

That robot can't be worse than finger-bending every corner of Sup1 pages to show how it's done. 

[thehumantorch]

On 12/22/2023 at 4:28 PM, Buzzetta said:

Leave my mom the F alone. 

Don't you want a new daddy? 

[namisgr]

It would need to be a much more deft robot, since the pages of aged comic books are much thinner and more fragile than those of hardback books.  But it can be done and for considerably less than 'millions'.  Then, if all potential wear and flaws can be detected using images of every page both head on and at a couple of angles, a program that automates and quantifies as it moves through the grading decision tree, mimicking the systematic processes used now by graders, could complete the task.

[jcjames]

On 12/22/2023 at 6:39 PM, namisgr said:

It would need to be a much more deft robot, since the pages of aged comic books are much thinner and more fragile than those of hardback books.  But it can be done and for considerably less than 'millions'.  Then, if all potential wear and flaws can be detected using images of every page both head on and at a cou ple of angles, a program that automates and quantifies as it moves through the grading decision tree, mimicking the systematic processes used now by graders, could complete the task.

Very doable in the future. 

If a company cared about consistency, accuracy and truly unbiased grading. 

If... 

 

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:53 AM, Mijael.Levy said:

Problem is that when CGC gets a reholder order they don't open the plastic sleeve so they can't really see the book from inside to verify its complete , if it has MJ insert or whatever. They will  probably solve this issue by adding something in the plastic sleeve.

That's interesting. In way it's understandable, as they're assuming they've already graded the book. But that's where the potential substitution scams can happen (via the submitter, not CGC).

[jcjames]

On 12/22/2023 at 6:44 PM, Steven Valdez said:

That's interesting. In way it's understandable, as they're assuming they've already graded the book. But that's where the potential substitution scams can happen (via the submitter, not CGC).

I don't understand how one could NOT tell if an MJ is present just looking at the edge of the book??

 

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:32 AM, uncannyjames said:

There is a certain level of failure that is acceptable. For instance, I can accept that CGC might miss a married cover a small fraction of the time.

Then again, if a married cover is truly undetectable... does it really matter? Just putting this out there -- not that I ever could or would try to do such a thing.

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:46 PM, jcjames said:

I don't understand how one could NOT tell if an MJ is present just looking at the edge of the book??

 

That's true. From that perspective, if CGC is being told they've missed something as significant as an MJ insert, they should at least be verifying its presence or lack thereof.

[jcjames]

On 12/22/2023 at 6:48 PM, Steven Valdez said:

That's true. From that perspective, if CGC is being told they've missed something as significant as an MJ insert, they should at least be verifying its presence or lack thereof.

Yep.

Two of these books have MJI, two don't:

 

If someone said all four were MJI, it'd definitely warrant a peek inside.

 

[Prince Namor]

On 12/23/2023 at 8:41 AM, namisgr said:

It would need to be a much more deft robot, since the pages of aged comic books are much thinner and more fragile than those of hardback books.  But it can be done and for considerably less than 'millions'.  Then, if all potential wear and flaws can be detected using images of every page both head on and at a couple of angles, a program that automates and quantifies as it moves through the grading decision tree, mimicking the systematic processes used now by graders, could complete the task.

And realistically you wouldn't even need it to be THAT advanced. An employee could still handle the book and just have it scanned for each page and whatever angles are needed and then the program would read and do most of the rest of the work. Without any bias other than what has actually been seen and graded before.

[VintageComics]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:12 PM, mjoeyoung said:

There already seem to be plenty of book scanners that automatically flip the pages to digitize them.  I don't think it would take too much to make them "safe" for the majority of books.  You don't need to create a human-like robotic finger to flip the pages, you can use a wheel or suction.

 

So you're going to put your ASM #1, Hulk #181 or Action #1 into that machine and let it flip pages?

How do you get the book out of a Mylar?

How do you get the book into the machine?

How do you get it off the machine?

How do you get it to encapsulation? 

I don't think some people think anything they're saying through.

Or maybe they just can't. 

This conversation is ridiculous. 

[JC25427N]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:57 PM, Prince Namor said:

Without any bias 

This is insanely harder than you make it sound

[VintageComics]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:56 PM, jcjames said:

Yep.

Two of these books have MJI, two don't:

 

If someone said all four were MJI, it'd definitely warrant a peek inside.

 

How do you know it's an MJ insert and not someone's nudie pics that they hid in there?

[DC#]

On 12/22/2023 at 5:18 PM, GDN said:

Not sure where things are at now.  Only thing I know is I'm not touching a higher grade blue label H181 unless I know the guy who slabbed it to begin with.

At least for the green to blue swaps talked about here - if the new blue slabs were never opened again - then they are for all practical purposes the new blue label grade they show.  They are genuine even if being illegitimate at the same time.   Is a blood diamond a blood diamond if you don't know it's a blood diamond?   The buyers of these books may have already passed some of them along to other buyers and as long as people keep believing they are genuine then they are in effect genuine.   Sort of the insidious nature of this whole thing.     I am sure museums that have been defrauded with fake masterpieces have moments of wishing they never discovered that they were forgeries.      

[MAR1979]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:07 PM, DC# said:

At least for the green to blue swaps talked about here - if the new blue slabs were never opened again - then they are for all practical purposes the new blue label grade they show.  They are genuine even if being illegitimate at the same time.

quantum indeterminacy

Edited December 23, 2023 by MAR1979

[Prince Namor]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:07 AM, VintageComics said:

How do you know it's an MJ insert and not someone's nudie pics that they hid in there?

We've already seen CGC WOULDN'T know.

[Bo1983]

The scammer seems to be only doing it with high volume books and switching 9.6 copies into 9.8 slabs!

Edited December 23, 2023 by Bo1983

[jcjames]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:07 PM, VintageComics said:

How do you know it's an MJ insert and not someone's nudie pics that they hid in there?

If you send back a book with nudie pics, it's DEFINITELY gonna bump the grade 

But yeah, it HAS to be verified no matter what. I'm just saying trying to pass off a slabbed book with no MJI as supposedly having an overlooked MJI should be super easy to spot. 

[Prince Namor]

On 12/23/2023 at 9:06 AM, JC25427N said:

This is insanely harder than you make it sound

How so? It's a SCANNING program. It's not an Android Super Robot from the Future who cuts open the mylar and counts the pages. You have an employee SCAN it. The most BIASED, easy-to-manipulate part of the process, you take OUT of the hands of a human being who could be BOUGHT, and instead have a computer do it.