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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

sledgehammer

sledgehammer

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 1:35 PM, VintageComics said:
On 12/23/2023 at 12:57 PM, jcjames said:
On 12/23/2023 at 12:09 PM, skybolt said:

I'm not sure there's anything there. The 7.0 could just be a straight resub. 

The JIM is clearly the same book, different cert#s. 

How does that prove anything in regards to this thread?

So, what did you do on your break?

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paqart

paqart

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 3:05 PM, minutekev@50 said:

I don't collect Jewelers but is anyone else fighting the urge to crack their slabs and make sure all the pages and mess are there?

Not me. I only own a little over 100 slabs, and they aren't susceptible to this problem. None are in our guy's target value range, most couldn't have MJ inserts, and those that could, aren't labelled that way. If they have them, it's a freebie. I do have some MJI comics, not a lot, but all are raw.

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Yorick

Yorick

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Finally made it to the end of this thread....

Great work to the 5-10 Boardies here who are focused on finding the certification numbers of these books.

I am now going to write my name across the top front cover of every book I own (Or maybe I'll use a stamp)....  :bigsmile:

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Bo1983

Bo1983

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 3:27 PM, paqart said:

Not me. I only own a little over 100 slabs, and they aren't susceptible to this problem. None are in our guy's target value range, most couldn't have MJ inserts, and those that could, aren't labelled that way. If they have them, it's a freebie. I do have some MJI comics, not a lot, but all are raw.

I could understand if you sent it in raw but how are you 100 percent sure if the slabs been thru 10 or 15 people.

Edited by Bo1983
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paqart

paqart

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 3:35 PM, Bo1983 said:

I could understand if you sent it in raw but how are you 100 percent sure?

I sent in almost all the comics raw, as you suggested. The 28 or so that I bought as slabs are either comics without coupons (like modern DCs) or aren't valuable enough to be interesting to our bad guy. I don't like to spend more than $200 for a comic, and when I do, don't go much above that. The only comics I own that are high value and are within (barely) the targeted price range are modern newsstands that I bought cheap and had slabbed myself.

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sledgehammer

sledgehammer

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Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 2:40 PM, Yorick said:

You may now buy purple label and green label books without fear of a different book being inside!

Make no assumptions about where this might go.

The same Purple label Hulk 8.0 cert # that sold on 11/21 for $2.040, sold on December 11th for $3,800.

There's money in everything, including lower grade purple reholdered in to a higher grade slab.

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Kripsys99

Kripsys99

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 1:18 PM, thehumantorch said:

I disagree.  CGC has posted official responses to issues like this in the past and I expect the same this time.

I expect CGC management to instruct @CGC Mike to release the following statement sometime within the next 6 weeks:

giphy(6).gif.7ef75216304f8b2cd31292a007509f4b.gif

Speaking of which, @CGC Mike, are you okay? Blink twice for yes, once for no.

 

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AbsoluteCarnage

AbsoluteCarnage

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 3:47 PM, sledgehammer said:

Make no assumptions about where this might go.

The same Purple label Hulk 8.0 cert # that sold on 11/21 for $2.040, sold on December 11th for $3,800.

There's money in everything, including lower grade purple reholdered in to a higher grade slab.

Speaking of books sold on December 11th.... 

Recent purchase though so likely wouldn't get through at this point.

 

image.thumb.png.d168010a045a33477647d1d4c404a039.png

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 3:38 PM, Yorick said:

Anyone who currently owns any ID'ed book in this thread should NOT open the case without witnesses and video tape rolling...  (previously mentioned, but just writing it again).

Therein lies a huge problem. The only way to know, since trust in CGC is on loose footing, is to open the slab. However in doing so it can be claimed it's not the same book. There are ways to prevent that, but no mechanisms AFAIK are currently in place.

I'm kind of glad nearly all my above $500 FMV and all my 1.5K+ FMV books were self submitted. Not sure I'll feel that way if the market has imploded if/when I decide sell comics for the first time.

One thing for certain I'm glad is that 95% or more of my Comic related spending the past 24 years had been on Published Original Comic Art.

Edited by MAR1979
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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 2:41 PM, VintageComics said:

Higher value books, which as you already mentioned exist in far lower numbers also receive far more scrutiny than lower value books, from buyers, the general public, from CGC, from auction houses. 

This is 100% correct.  We are actually in full agreement. "Historic" first :)?

The scammer(s) identified the sweet spot of supply, demand, value threshold and those who primarily look at label/flip and not the book. 

  

On 12/23/2023 at 4:04 PM, Chip Cataldo said:

I just read this entire thread as I didn't read the forum for a few days.

I would like a cookie. Thank you.

You should have been playing the great game in your avatar (via MAME or the like), it would have been more productive.

 

Edited by MAR1979
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Heronext

Heronext

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 4:00 PM, MAR1979 said:

Therein lies a huge problem. The only way to know, since trust in CGC is on loose footing, is to open the slab. However in doing so it can be claimed it's not the same book. There are ways to prevent that, but no mechanisms AFAIK are currently in place.

Coming in 2024: CGC-sponsored slab opening parties at comicons across the nation

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rjpb

rjpb

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Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 11:20 AM, ThothAmon said:

Can’t see this. Remember hes had to tamper with the original 9.8 to remove the inner sleeve/well/original comic. Fraud comic in its original inner sleeve/well/original comic then slid in. Label switch would be riskier and unnecessary. 

Presumably the original 9.8 is going to be resubmitted raw, and it seems like it would be difficult to remove it without fully cracking the case open. If you fully crack the case you can take the 9.8 label and then pry the lower grade/restored/qualified label slab open enough to pull out the original label and slide in the 9.8 label. If CGC is reholdering books already busted out of the outer well, but shipped with it as "proof of grade", then that level of subterfuge is unnecessary, but if the idea was to send presumably damaged slabs that were still mostly intact then it might have been easier to replace the label rather than the book in the slab. (shrug)

Or maybe they just took a super fine coping saw, cut through all four posts without any tell-tale shatter separated the case, swapped in the lower grade comic left in it's inner well, and then spot glued the posts back, and figured whoever cut open the case for a reholder wouldn't notice. The work couldn't have been flawless though, otherwise why go to the trouble to reholder, which indicates the cases were damaged at some point. 

If I recall correctly, CGCs reholdering policy precludes reholdering books with the seals broken on the outer case for just this very reason, though perhaps they are flexible if the case doesn't appear to be fully opened. I'd be curious as to how diligent CGC was in keeping with this policy, or were they just reholdering books sent in with busted slabs?

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Chip Cataldo

Chip Cataldo

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 4:08 PM, MAR1979 said:

You should have been playing the great game in your avatar (via MAME or the like), it would have been more productive.

I'm at work, so it was a good time-waster.

I have a Retro unit at home that has 49 systems and 25,000+ games on it (including 3,000+ arcade games). It's magical.

Pole Position is sooooo much fun to play.

Edited by Chip Cataldo
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