ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Stefan_W]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:21 PM, VintageComics said:

I agree with you that this is a VERY dangerous way to handle things. 

This guy should have sent the details to CGC but not exposed them publicly. 

May as well explain to everyone how to build a bomb and trust the cops to catch the bad guys. Does this person dislike CGC?

He is a smart guy and the best benefit of the doubt I can give him is that he probably believes that taking this course of action will force CGC to change up their holders (rather than believing he is just another You Tubers trying to use this type of video to grow his channel more). I agree with what you are saying 100% and I don't appreciate his recklessness. 

[OJ Pimpson]

On 12/27/2023 at 1:24 PM, uncannyjames said:

Here is another questionable CGC 9.8 Mark Jewelers for sale on ebay that is definitely not a 9.8

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285617050488

So all of these gift 9.8s we excoriated CGC graders for were actually scam books. They were perfect all along. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by OJ Pimpson

[Kripsys99]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:25 PM, Stefan_W said:

He is a smart guy and the best benefit of the doubt I can give him is that he probably believes that taking this course of action will force CGC to change up their holders (rather than believing he is just another You Tubers trying to use this type of video to grow his channel more). I agree with what you are saying 100% and I don't appreciate his recklessness. 

CGC has had plenty of time to issue literally ANY statement in regards to this issue. Even just an acknowledgement. Their failure to do so has left the community trying to problem solve this issue themselves. The video at least gives collectors something to keep an eye out for when scrutinizing slabs. CGC had an opportunity to head videos like this off at the pass, but abdicated their responsibility, leaving others to fill the informational void.

[VintageComics]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:58 AM, MAR1979 said:

On 12/27/2023 at 11:52 AM, namisgr said:

One thing the company plainly should do, which they did with all Jason Ewert submissions, is accept back any and every slabbed book submitted by the perpetrator, and re-grade them free of charge.  I can't see any measure less than that being satisfactory.

So folks will send back their 9.8 labels to get 6.5 Green Labels.  Given the morals and ethics of most Comic Book Dealers, Sellers, Speculators, Flippers I don't foresee that occurring in anything but the tiniest numbers unless there is full FMV remuneration involved. Ain't gonna happen as Blackstone will not pay out a cent.

CGC previously released serial numbers of possibly affected books. If they do the same here, why would anyone want to hang onto a tainted serial number?

On a side note, I asked and got word back from Comiclink regarding that ASM #129 CGC 9.0 from the exchange that was discussed earlier, and that specific book has been checked and is not considered to be a part of this problem. Just relaying info.

So, so far this still seems to be an eBay centric problem. 

[wombat]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:21 PM, VintageComics said:

This guy should have sent the details to CGC but not exposed them publicly. 

Unless you don't trust CGC to do the right thing and thinking this might force their hand. 

[Point Five]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:25 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Did he actually leave that post up?

Yes, but he instantly turned off commenting and the only reply is his own. Kind of a short conversation!

 

[drotto]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:29 PM, Kripsys99 said:

CGC has had plenty of time to issue literally ANY statement in regards to this issue. Even just an acknowledgement. Their failure to do so has left the community trying to problem solve this issue themselves. The video at least gives collectors something to keep an eye out for when scrutinizing slabs. CGC had an opportunity to head videos like this off at the pass, but abdicated their responsibility, leaving others to fill the informational void.

Plus, it more or less confirms how many people suspected it was being done, but now verifies it can be done.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:31 PM, wombat said:

Unless you don't trust CGC to do the right thing and thinking this might force their hand. 

Would you rather trust thousands of random viewers on You Tube who now know how to replace books within slabs? 

I agree that this is likely his line of thinking, but to say it is flawed is a bit of an understatement IMO. 

[wombat]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:36 PM, Stefan_W said:

Would you rather trust thousands of random viewers on You Tube who now know how to replace books within slabs? 

I agree that this is likely his line of thinking, but to say it is flawed is a bit of an understatement IMO. 

I don't trust anyone. Ever. 

[VintageComics]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:54 PM, agamoto said:

On 12/27/2023 at 12:52 PM, BrashL said:

I don’t know how you can say that given what we know. For all we know all those 9.8s with 4 spine ticks people have been complaining about for years are all case switches. I think the books go into the thousands at the very least. 

This... A million times this. It's now the most reasonable explanation for 9.8's that everyone objectively agrees aren't even close to a 9.8

As someone who submits a lot of books, I can testify that CGC has been inconsistent and you can get overgraded and undergraded books back from CGC. 

Any high volume submitter can testify to this. In fact, we talk to each other all the time about it and compare notes regularly. 

Let's not start yelling fire in a movie theater just yet. 

[agamoto]

Love the ad description on eBay... 

"CGC & CBCS HAVE BAD QUALITY CONTROL AND CASES & INNERWELLS MAY HAVE SCUFFS, SCRATCHES, NEWTON RINGS, SMALL FLOATING PIECES INSIDE CASES OR INNERWELLS, VERY SMALL HAIRLINE CRACKS WHERE CASES ARE SEALED ON THE SIDES, INNERWELLS OR COMICS MAY MOVE INSIDE CASES OR OTHER SLIGHT ISSUES"

In other words, "It may look like someone used a curling iron, a couple of old credit cards and a pair of super thin needle nose pliers yanking the inner well out the bottom, but that's all on you."

Interesting to note they're using the CGC census images in the ad. Note the white marks on the left side and the unbroken bluish/purple luminescence of the unbroken sonic weld on both sides of the case, but not the bottom. Easy solution CGC, weld the friggin' bottom of the case.  

[WolverineX]

 

[agamoto]

On 12/27/2023 at 1:41 PM, VintageComics said:

As someone who submits a lot of books, I can testify that CGC has been inconsistent and you can get overgraded and undergraded books back from CGC. 

Any high volume submitter can testify to this. In fact, we talk to each other all the time about it and compare notes regularly. 

Let's not start yelling fire in a movie theater just yet. 

You saw the post of mine where I looked at his groups of submissions over the past year, no? The one where he sent in 100 books and got 90 of them back 9.8's, a few 9.6's, a 9.4 and some lower grade silvers? What do you think of that win/loss ratio?

[grendel013]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:31 PM, lostboys said:

Not joking.

 

I planned on buying a ASM 129 in  the 9.0 - 9.2 range when my income tax refund came.

 

Not anymore.

I had a similar idea (just a few grades lower) a couple months back but opted to buy raw, had a C&P and submitted to CGC myself.

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:41 PM, VintageComics said:

As someone who submits a lot of books, I can testify that CGC has been inconsistent and you can get overgraded and undergraded books back from CGC. 

Any high volume submitter can testify to this. In fact, we talk to each other all the time about it and compare notes regularly. 

Let's not start yelling fire in a movie theater just yet. 

Well, anyone the past several years who has purchased via eBay ANY 3rd Gen CGC slab Newsstand version of; ASM 194,238,252,300  Hulk 181,340, New Mutants 98 for example, should certainly look at their books and be prepared to soil themselves. 

Given the scope and amount of years this has been going on it seems mathematically impossible that none of those tainted slabs have not made it to other venues.

Edited December 27, 2023 by MAR1979

[grendel013]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:53 PM, skybolt said:

Join the club. Hahaha.

I don't see any Newsstands...

[Sigur Ros]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:39 AM, BrashL said:

The irony here is if CGC would have just come out and said “We know who’s doing this, we’ll release all the certs and regrade for free” or something this probably goes away and they get credit for great customer service. Now the whole value of the service is in serious doubt. 

Lol... all that does is open up a new can of worms.

Imagine all those 9.8 blues coming back as 6.0 green labels for missing stamps, pages, etc.

No one's going to say "well at least they fixed the label for free! I'm satisfied now."

[Iconic1s]

On 12/27/2023 at 3:50 PM, agamoto said:

You saw the post of mine where I looked at his groups of submissions over the past year, no? The one where he sent in 100 books and got 90 of them back 9.8's, a few 9.6's, a 9.4 and some lower grade silvers? What do you think of that win/loss ratio?

Yep.  Being able to tamper with a slab is one thing, but having that kind of success says something else altogether.  Unless these were all his donor 9.8’s headed back in to make more 9.8 cert numbers.

[jsilverjanet]

[VintageComics]

On 12/27/2023 at 4:50 PM, agamoto said:

You saw the post of mine where I looked at his groups of submissions over the past year, no? The one where he sent in 100 books and got 90 of them back 9.8's, a few 9.6's, a 9.4 and some lower grade silvers? What do you think of that win/loss ratio?

That's not an uncommon win/loss ratio for people who are very experienced with grading, and it's exacerbated when CGC is slightly on the loose side, which we all know happens, so that in and of itself isn't anything that raises eyebrows. 

I've regularly posted on here publicly over the years that if I get about 80% of my projected grades, I assume CGC is bang on down the center and if that percentage varies higher or lower, they're loose or tight, so not out of the ordinary to me.