ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[The_Investor]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:28 AM, CGC Mike said:

I just posted this again because the previous page was showing a wide text due to an ebay link.  I will ask that this be fixed.

Thanks Mike for helping to start restoring some kind of  transparency

[Buzzetta]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:28 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I like the RFID chip scenario - it will obviously increase the price, but that's likely going to happen anyway with whatever new security measures they put forth. If they created something that could be scanned and confirmed quickly (by a buyer) - that would go a long way, and not really be that big of a deal. I look up cert numbers on every slab I buy anyway to look at grader's notes, so one more step wouldn't be a hassle just to confirm what I'm buying.

Sealing the certification in the well is also a possibility, that way in order to switch labels, you'll have to ruin the integrity of the well to do so. It's been awhile since I cracked a case, I don't know if they already do that, though.

Isn't RFID tech traceable? 

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:32 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

ya and if it was hush hush, they wouldn't be aware of any leaks to that info, I was just double checking  

or it would make it harder to find out if anyone found out....

On 12/28/2023 at 10:31 AM, wiparker824 said:

Upgrade to tamper proof for the low price of 4% FMV. 

I'm sure past slabs would be addressed at some point, if not immediately, it needs to be remembered to be brought to their attention for sue  

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:34 AM, Buzzetta said:

Isn't RFID tech traceable? 

 

Sounds like it is. I'm sure that opens up a Privacy issue absolutely no one would be comfortable with.

[grendel013]

If the damn label was sealed to the inner well with the cert # etched on it, the outer well is really an optional feature for added protection. I could see many collectors wanting to remove the outer wells for purposes of storage and saving space. Let's just start doing this CGC.

[SpiderParker]

I am not sure if this video has been posted but anyone can literally defeat a CGC case with a heat gun and some patience.  This is a HUGE issue.  The whole design and sealing method needs fixed ASAP. 

I just looked at one of my McFarlane signature books from his last signing, which is the last time I sent in a book.  The entire bottom isn't sealed like this video demonstrates,  only the corners.  As shown, this would be super easy to open without any marks or cracks to the case.  There is only about a 2" section of the seal on my book that has been sonically(?) sealed and melted together.  This needs done around the entire edge of the case or at a minimum, 2" sections on all 4 sides.  This is a massive design flaw.  Given the amount of books in these cases this will be an ongoing issue literally forever.   It's sad.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by SpiderParker

[paqart]

On 12/28/2023 at 1:03 AM, Iconic1s said:

What I hope is that this guy has a bunch of submissions there right now!  That would be where they are going to find evidence of wrongdoing!

Imagine they get a chance to go through his reholder sub for example and find a bunch of glued back together holders!  Then they start opening his Universals and find a bunch of missing MVS’s. This is what is hopefully keeping him awake right now!  

Based on what we've seen so far, it makes sense he would have submissions at CGC on almost any day of the week. He would need to keep the flow going no matter what. That would mean sending something every month. Add in the TAT and shipping time, there's going to be a submission on most days of the year.

[Dr. Balls]

As an aside to the conversation - should CGC have a provable case against the guy caught doing this, I imagine they will bomb him back to the Stone Age with the amount of zeroes in the lawsuit. He may have tampered with a $15k book, but an army of CGC lawyers will probably establish reputational damages in the tens of millions. This dude will have to become pen pals with OJ and figure out how to get around paying restitution the rest of his life.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:28 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I like the RFID chip scenario

Can't wait for people starting threads about how CGC is tracking all of their movements. 

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:42 AM, Stefan_W said:

Can't wait for people starting threads about how CGC is tracking all of their movements. 

I'd like to retract my previous statement of 'liking' the RFID scenario.

[wiparker824]

On 12/28/2023 at 9:35 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I'm sure past slabs would be addressed at some point, if not immediately, it needs to be remembered to be brought to their attention for sue  

I think you’re giving them too much credit. I’m sure the “few hundred” they will list from the seller(s) identified will me remedied one way or another but the millions of other slabs that are probably not tampered with but might be, but have no proof either way I’m guessing will be SOL. You’ll be offered the re-sub, re-grade with their new “tamper proof process” and not a lot else. Maybe they offer a discount upgrading from an old case but as someone with hundreds of slabs that’s not really that appealing to me personally. Hope I’m wrong, but really doubt I am.

[wombat]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:42 AM, Dr. Balls said:

On 12/28/2023 at 11:42 AM, Stefan_W said:

Can't wait for people starting threads about how CGC is tracking all of their movements. 

I'd like to retract my previous statement of 'liking' the RFID scenario.

CGC tracking division: Dr. Balls is in the bathroom again? What is wrong with this guy. 

[BrashL]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:26 AM, ADAMANTIUM said:

One thing that comes to mind...

Will any upgrades to tamper proof it, will it become public knowledge?

@Buzzettas does cgc have to let us know? That thought crossed my mind to avoid scammers, but I don't know any legalities 

I think it has to at this point. The value of CGC isn't the slab itself or the grading service; there's an acceptance in the community that grading is inconsistent (which shouldn't really be acceptable but here we are). The value of CGC is that it allows for trustless transactions. Now that trust is broken and a "trust me bro" from CGC isn't going to fix it. 

[grendel013]

The owner of my LCS recently sent a TMNT #1 first print to CGC for grading. When it came back, he was so excited, I was one of the first people he showed. Upon picking up the slab, it fell apart in my hands. I thought he was playing a gag on me but he wasn't. CGC had completely missed the snap and seal portion of the encapsulation. He ended up sending back for a reholder but if he had a lower grade copy of TMNT #1 graded, I guess this would have been an opportunity for fraud. So regardless of what the conclusion is, the number of fraudulent slabs out there will be higher than what is announced.

[Buzzetta]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:42 AM, Stefan_W said:

Can't wait for people starting threads about how CGC is tracking all of their movements. 

There are bigger issues.  There have been some recent car thefts across the area where people are utilizing the RFDI chips in your car keys and bouncing a signal to their reader on an iPad that then uses that signal to "duplicate" the key and effortlessly start the car. 

I cannot imagine them scanning your home looking for the car key signal only to find that you have a copy of a high valuable collectible in the home worth more than the car.  They will be back the next night with a moving van. 

[Gator Guru]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:10 AM, BrashL said:

I don't think changes to the case of that nature are the answer anyway, it just creates a new arms race and no system is unbreakable, at least not at a cost that makes the business viable. The solution here is pretty simple actually and I hope they implement something similar:

• Every book gets Grader Notes, every single one (OK maybe not a 10)
• Every single book gets a high res picture front and back
• Every note related to the cover or back of the book is annotated in the picture, with the defect circled, marked, whatever

Essentially create a unique fingerprint for every comic, which is essentially what this board has been doing for a week now. Not only do you ensure the integrity of the slab, you ensure the integrity of the grade itself. This would take a little more time, but to be honest this is the bare minimum of what a grader should be doing now considering how much value they are adding (or subtracting) from a book. If they did this, I could care less how easy the case is to open. 

The already scan every book so this wouldn’t be too hard to implement. Grader notes would need to be detailed and overall product value would increase.
 

They also could put etching on each slab with a secondary id number. If they check the id, cert and picture and don’t believe it to be genuinely the same book could do what PSA does and refuse to reholder and send it back. PSA refuses to grade cards so why not refuse to reholder some books? 

[Silver Surfer]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:40 AM, SpiderParker said:

I am not sure if this video has been posted but anyone can literally defeat a CGC case with a heat gun and some patience.  This is a HUGE issue.  The whole design and sealing method needs fixed ASAP. 

I just looked at one of my McFarlane signature books from his last signing, which is the last time I sent in a book.  The entire bottom isn't sealed like this video demonstrates,  only the corners.  As shown, this would be super easy to open without any marks or cracks to the case.  There is only about a 2" section of the seal on my book that has been sonically(?) sealed and melted together.  This needs done around the entire edge of the case or at a minimum, 2" sections on all 4 sides.  This is a massive design flaw.  Given the amount of books in these cases this will be an ongoing issue literally forever.   It's sad but anyone buying a second hand high end book should question it.  

 

Well isn’t that just great. 

[Buzzetta]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:41 AM, Dr. Balls said:

As an aside to the conversation - should CGC have a provable case against the guy caught doing this, I imagine they will bomb him back to the Stone Age with the amount of zeroes in the lawsuit. He may have tampered with a $15k book, but an army of CGC lawyers will probably establish reputational damages in the tens of millions. This dude will have to become pen pals with OJ and figure out how to get around paying restitution the rest of his life.

They have the house lawyers as well as Mark Zaid.

However, if they need another guy, @jaybuck43 and I know a guy..., 

(Jay, I've been waiting to use this for years.)

https://newlawoffice.com/stephen-p-new

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:50 AM, Buzzetta said:

They have the house lawyers as well as Mark Zaid.

However, if they need another guy, @jaybuck43 and I know a guy..., 

(Jay, I've been waiting to use this for years.)

https://newlawoffice.com/stephen-p-new

 

Thanks for implanting that tune in my head for eternity 

[jaybuck43]

On 12/28/2023 at 11:50 AM, Buzzetta said:

They have the house lawyers as well as Mark Zaid.

However, if they need another guy, @jaybuck43 and I know a guy..., 

(Jay, I've been waiting to use this for years.)

https://newlawoffice.com/stephen-p-new

 

When you're old, tired, and you work with children who assault you in your dressing room, be sure to call 877 50 STEVE.