ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[WestcoastDAVEngers]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:32 PM, Mikey C said:

This all started with the keen eye and research of 9.9Newstand on Instagram. The video in the very first post of this thread was based on 9.9's original post on Insta.

Mikey you forgot "and the work of his trusted podcast partner..." 

Hey ya'll we're going live again tonight, just to chat with the community and friends, if you want to join, 6:30 pm PT

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by WestcoastDAVEngers

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:06 PM, Heronext said:

YouTubers vs Boardies

Parking lot

Midnight tonight 

My money is on the boardies

[brute_nm]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:06 PM, Heronext said:

YouTubers vs Boardies

Parking lot

Midnight tonight 

Meet me on the 9th green at 9:00. Wear something nice 

[Point Five]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:55 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

#1 red flag for me was corner142 was from Forest Hills, NY. 

If you stereotype that area of NYC in terms of eBay selling that leads to fraud you are better off in the long-run.

Especially when it comes to "CGC worthy" or NM high end raw selling.

Most New Yorkers are well educated and good/bad and they aint leaving money on the table in that city hardly ever.

If it's too good to be true usually it is, especially in NYC.  There is a reason you are getting a Hulk #181 raw on eBay selling at auction from that area.  They are smarter than most and trying to rip you off.

Many NYers are great sellers, but you have to be careful from the ones that you think you are getting a much better than retail deal on, especially on raw books via eBay.

I've known Forest Hills since the 80s. Queens is an area of 2.2 million people, and Forest Hills is actually one of its more gentrified neighborhoods... given that it's in the middle of a dense urban area, it surprisingly feels almost suburban, with tree-lined streets, good schools and fairly large/pricey houses. Of course there are bad apples like in any neighborhood or city. But the idea of **Forest Hills** as some kind of Star Wars cantina of villainy is really a bit much to swallow. 

 

[Cat]

On 12/30/2023 at 11:08 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

My money is on the boardies

We're asthmatic. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:09 PM, Point Five said:

I've known Forest Hills since the 80s. Queens is an area of 2.2 million people, and Forest Hills is actually one of its more gentrified neighborhoods... given that it's in the middle of a dense urban area, it surprisingly feels almost suburban, with tree-lined streets, good schools and fairly large/pricey houses. Of course there are bad apples like in any neighborhood or city. But the idea of **Forest Hills** as some kind of Star Wars cantina of villainy is really a bit much to swallow. 

 

Idk my friend besides Peter Parker being born there Queens and Forest Hills has always been ground zero for eBay shenanigans.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:09 PM, brute_nm said:

Meet me on the 9th green at 9:00. Wear something nice 

Saw him this year live, he was there

[Mikey C]

On 12/29/2023 at 8:07 PM, WestcoastDAVEngers said:

Mikey you forgot "and the work of his trusted podcast partner..." 

Hey ya'll we're going live again tonight, just to chat with the community and friends, if you want to join, 6:30 pm PT

 

Absolutely, brother. You were both the tip of this spear. Looking forward to tonight!

[Heronext]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:55 PM, EastEnd1 said:

The other gut punch with Ewert is that he was a very well known dealer... I bought plenty of books from him in the 1990s at NY conventions... I found him to be great to work with at the time.

 

[Point Five]

On 12/29/2023 at 8:27 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Idk my friend besides Peter Parker being born there Queens and Forest Hills has always been ground zero for eBay shenanigans.

Fair enough. You're smart to hide out in LA where it's safe.  

 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:39 PM, Point Five said:

Fair enough. You're smart to hide out in LA where it's safe.  

 

I am from Philly burbs originally.  I moved from one s-hole to another.  This one just has better weather!

Edited December 30, 2023 by NewWorldOrder

[EastEnd1]

On 12/29/2023 at 7:44 PM, LordRahl said:

I'm not trying to downplay this but I will bet dollars to donuts this exact same thing was said in the Ewert thread. 

Oh I'd never take that bet... I'm very certain the same exact thing was said back then!  And I appreciate that you recognize the seriousness of this.  But I do think Ewert and this new scandal are different.  CGC survived Ewert because they acted quickly, promised to make people whole, convinced the market that the population of doctored books was relatively small, and developed "a fix" to catch micro-trimming going forward.  Whether they did or didn't, the market accepted the solution and CGC continued it's gatekeeper role in protecting collectors.  The thing with the Ewert scam though is that the books HAD to go through CGC (the trusted "gatekeeper").  The issue for a potential micro-trimming scammer was not so much can I scam a buyer, but would the intermediary experts and their "new fix" that I was forced to go through (ie,CGC) catch me.  A somewhat risky proposition that I'm sure has dissuaded potential copycats.  Maybe some doctored books have gotten through, maybe not, who knows... but one thing we do know for sure is that NO micro-trimming scandal has emerged since Ewert, and this with so many more eyeballs carefully looking over comics these days.  The trust has held.

This new scandal is very different from Ewert.  There is no need for the books to go through the gatekeeper.  Anyone with a little knowledge (that is now in the public domain) and practice, can very simply open the holder, replace the book, seal the holder back up, and list it on Ebay.  No gatekeeper gets to re-look at the book to potentially catch the scam.  (And frankly the gatekeeper wasn't doing such a good job catching their own resealed holders from this as yet unnamed culprit to begin with... but presumably they will fix that).  These new scams will therefore continue to happen from other copycat scammers that have/will become aware of this.  And without a fix for the huge population of already issued holders (which at this point escapes me and most others), the new scam will fester and grow... it has too, there's no policeman in the way.  And once that happens, the trust in CGC, at least as far as pre-existing holders is concerned, will be dangerously eroded.  That strikes me as something to worry about.

[EastEnd1]

On 12/29/2023 at 8:09 PM, Point Five said:

I've known Forest Hills since the 80s. Queens is an area of 2.2 million people, and Forest Hills is actually one of its more gentrified neighborhoods... given that it's in the middle of a dense urban area, it surprisingly feels almost suburban, with tree-lined streets, good schools and fairly large/pricey houses. Of course there are bad apples like in any neighborhood or city. But the idea of **Forest Hills** as some kind of Star Wars cantina of villainy is really a bit much to swallow. 

 

Forest Hills is easily one of the most affluent areas in the outer boroughs. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:57 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Forest Hills is easily one of the most affluent areas in the outer boroughs. 

Correct so some are smart enough to pull the scam.

NYC overall is filled with savvy and some of the most educated people in this country, good or bad.

 

[Buzzetta]

On 12/29/2023 at 8:57 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Forest Hills is easily one of the most affluent areas in the outer boroughs. 

Those cobblestone streets by the LIRR are nice too !

[EastEnd1]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:01 PM, Buzzetta said:

Those cobblestone streets by the LIRR are nice too !

Yep.  I believe Vinnie Zurzola's first comic store was in Forest Hills...

 

[EastEnd1]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:00 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Correct so some are smart enough to pull the scam.

NYC overall is filled with savvy and some of the most educated people in this country, good or bad.

 

Well this "mastermind" managed to capture reflections of himself in most of the Ebay listing photos of his doctored books, so I'm not quite sure how smart he is.  But yes, there is no shortage of bright unscrupulous people in NY!

[wiparker824]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:05 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Have you seen the videos posted in the last few days of how to do it?  And have you noticed how EASY it is?  Take a look at how many people have viewed these videos since they were released... 10k in TWO days on the CGC holder.  This has less to do with who's already done it.  It has EVERYTHING to do with how many can potentially do it going forward with 7-8 million susceptible slabs.  Once the trust in CGC is gone, it's game over for the slab gold rush, my friend. 

Slabs aren’t going anywhere. Worst case for CGC is they cede some of the market share to the other company that doesn’t currently have people popping their cases with a Walmart heat gun on YT, but that’s about it. The demand for the service CGC and other slabbing companies provide hasn’t changed overnight. It’s still there, and the demand will be filled by some company one way or another. Being someone that has a lot of CGC slabs I personally hope they figure it out but if not, life goes on. Some other company will fill that void.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 12/29/2023 at 5:52 PM, EastEnd1 said:

Oh I'd never take that bet... I'm very certain the same exact thing was said back then!  And I appreciate that you recognize the seriousness of this.  But I do think Ewert and this new scandal are different.  CGC survived Ewert because they acted quickly, promised to make people whole, convinced the market that the population of doctored books was relatively small, and developed "a fix" to catch micro-trimming going forward.  Whether they did or didn't, the market accepted the solution and CGC continued it's gatekeeper role in protecting collectors.  The thing with the Ewert scam though is that the books HAD to go through CGC (the trusted "gatekeeper").  The issue for a potential micro-trimming scammer was not so much can I scam a buyer, but would the intermediary experts and their "new fix" that I was forced to go through (ie,CGC) catch me.  A somewhat risky proposition that I'm sure has dissuaded potential copycats.  Maybe some doctored books have gotten through, maybe not, who knows... but one thing we do know for sure is that NO micro-trimming scandal has emerged since Ewert, and this with so many more eyeballs carefully looking over comics these days.  The trust has held.

This new scandal is very different from Ewert.  There is no need for the books to go through the gatekeeper.  Anyone with a little knowledge (that is now in the public domain) and practice, can very simply open the holder, replace the book, seal the holder back up, and list it on Ebay.  No gatekeeper gets to re-look at the book to potentially catch the scam.  (And frankly the gatekeeper wasn't doing such a good job catching their own resealed holders from this as yet unnamed culprit to begin with... but presumably they will fix that).  These new scams will therefore continue to happen from other copycat scammers that have/will become aware of this.  And without a fix for the huge population of already issued holders (which at this point escapes me and most others), the new scam will fester and grow... it has too, there's no policeman in the way.  And once that happens, the trust in CGC, at least as far as pre-existing holders is concerned, will be dangerously eroded.  That strikes me as something to worry about.

 

All CGC has to do make sure a couple important steps in the reholdering/new label process actually happen and not overlooked. 

Literally that's it.

If the reholder's were properly inspected from start to finish then zero of these books would have gone back the way they came in.

Not trying to sound harsh but you really being somewhat naive on the Jason Ewert situation.  I am still more worried about another Ewert or others better than him still around as we speak.

Nothing CGC did was fast or slow about how they handled that. Evey thing in life can't be like DoorDash, and one click of a button everything gets solved. Investigations and money claims take time this story barely broke a week ago.

CGC had a list of possible tampered books from Jason Ewerts on a sticky thread here for years, and anyone who was duped by him was taken care of by CGC!  I suspect they will do the same again.

My point is some of has have seen this similar bad scams in the past a couple of times now.  Where there is money there will always be people trying to scam where they can.  This wasnt the first and it certainly won't be the last scam that happens to CGC.  All they can do is learn how to get better at being a head of the criminals.   Have a good night.

[shadroch]

On 12/29/2023 at 6:27 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Idk my friend besides Peter Parker being born there Queens and Forest Hills has always been ground zero for eBay shenanigans.

The Ramones came from Forest Hills. Nuff Said.