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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,029 posts in this topic

wiparker824

wiparker824

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 7:14 PM, tmac100 said:

Couldn't they just be valid books he sent in to be graded for the first time, along with the book to reholder?  Maybe part of the strategy - it seems like it would be less scrutinized if he sent in a reholder along with a bunch of books to be graded for the first time.  If a book was only submitted/graded once, they are probably considering it to be legit.

They wouldn’t all have the same grade date. The reholder would have its original grade date before the others.

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paqart

paqart

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 9:27 AM, pdags said:

Maybe I missed something, but 

  • Before sending to CGC, I have a book encased with a mis-matching label (clear fraud)
  • After re-holdering, I have a book in a case with matching label. (normal book)

Until I know legal authorities are content with their evidence, the situation, and are recommending this behavior, I'm not relinquishing my best evidence to CGC.  The fact that CGC is asking us to willingly give up our best evidence without knowing legal enforcement is involved is a slippery slope for them.  We're putting blind trust in them.

I hate to say it because I believe CGC is trying to do the right thing, but I agree with you on this point. Customers do have the best evidence of fraud right now, prior to sending the material to CGC. For that reason, if they want prosecution, they may want to hang onto the books and report to the FBI themselves. There is no need to wait on CGC for permission to do it. The problem with that is if their comic becomes evidence of counterfeiting, the FBI will confiscate it as evidence. As a counterfeit, it could be destroyed. That last part might not happen because the "counterfeit" is the comic/holder/label combination, not the comic. However, if any of the signatures are counterfeit, those comics could be destroyed. For those reasons, CGC's offer looks pretty good. 

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 6:14 PM, tmac100 said:

Couldn't they just be valid books he sent in to be graded for the first time, along with the book to reholder?  Maybe part of the strategy - it seems like it would be less scrutinized if he sent in a reholder along with a bunch of books to be graded for the first time.  If a book was only submitted/graded once, they are probably considering it to be legit.

I agree.  I think its a mixed bag.  That is why while that 350 list is bad I think a decent mount with be Okay once the submitter sends the book back to CGC.  I think we can all agree the books you see the most: ASM 238 252 300 etc are prob going to have a higher % of tampering is my guess.

Edited by NewWorldOrder
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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 6:18 PM, grendel013 said:

In between 6 month suspensions.:banana:

wait he got suspended for 6 months?  what did he do this time?

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MAR1979

MAR1979

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 4:58 PM, agamoto said:

(calls back)

"Hello, United States FBI, How can I help you?"

"Sorry, we must have been disconnected. Did you say $5000 comic books?"

"Woah, potentially 350 books? Over a million dollars in value?"

"Wow-wee! I remember when comics only used to cost a dime!"

"And potentially hundreds of victims across the USA?"

"And most, if not all, the trade in these books was over the Internet?"

"Okay, please hold" 

"Hello, this is the Internet Crime Complaint Center, AKA IC3, how can we help?"

"Yeah, just file a complaint at ic3.gov"

"Hello, United States FBI, How can I help you?"

FBI; "Sorry, we must have been disconnected. Did you say $5000 comic books?"

FBI; "Do you have an example of one of those Books"

"Yes, A Secret Wars #8 Newsstand with Mark Jewelers insert. You know the First Spider-man in Black Costume"

FBI; "Listen up moe-ron that's not even close to being the first Black Costume or Cover" CLICK

 

 

Edited by MAR1979
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pdags

pdags

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 9:16 PM, paqart said:

For those reasons, CGC's offer looks pretty good. 

That's the real issue...  people say they want justice, but in reality they want their money / comicbook first.  :bigsmile:   

I never thought about them destroying counterfeits applying here, but I do hope people directly frauded on this have reported it to the FBI.  At minimum, the more noise the better.

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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 8:16 PM, wiparker824 said:
On 1/4/2024 at 8:14 PM, tmac100 said:

Couldn't they just be valid books he sent in to be graded for the first time, along with the book to reholder?  Maybe part of the strategy - it seems like it would be less scrutinized if he sent in a reholder along with a bunch of books to be graded for the first time.  If a book was only submitted/graded once, they are probably considering it to be legit.

They wouldn’t all have the same grade date. The reholder would have its original grade date before the others.

If I read your question correctly....

Of the missing submission numbers on cgcs list....

Reholder submissions have their own submission form, and regular submissions have their own form.

So within the 25 max book limit for a submission, all 25 on one form (and in succession,) have to either be all reholder or all regular for grading subs.

Same with special labels, but more towards when cgc ships those out.... you can add labels to any book when filling out a grading submission form,I understand it all on one reg submission form, but when cgc ships they ship them separately from the rest of the books.

I wonder if THAT is how the submission isn't in succession? @sledgehammer 

Edited by ADAMANTIUM
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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 6:29 PM, pdags said:

That's the real issue...  people say they want justice, but in reality they want their money / comicbook first.  :bigsmile:   

I never thought about them destroying counterfeits applying here, but I do hope people directly frauded on this have reported it to the FBI.  At minimum, the more noise the better.

Maybe is worth a Supreme court hearing as well?

The $ amount is certainly going to get the attention of the National Media. :headpat:

Maybe even a topic at the Presidential debate here end of the year. (shrug)

Relax its called a joke.....

Yes in reality most human beings do exactly what you said, and there is nothing wrong with that.

This hobby has proven that if a known criminal has a book you want, morals go out the window.

 

Edited by NewWorldOrder
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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 6:38 PM, Silver Surfer said:

You get points, demerits now?

Remember when the boards was almost impossible to get a strike?

The CGC boards now, I would get a 12-month ban for just one of my average posts from 2009.

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awakeintheashes

awakeintheashes

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 9:39 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Remember when the boards was almost impossible to get a strike?

The CGC boards now, I would get a 12-month ban for just one of my average posts from 2009.

The Strikes thread and LTPC were always a good time. 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 9:41 PM, awakeintheashes said:

The Strikes thread and LTPC were always a good time. 

If only that still existed, whoever was keeping track would tell you that it was sad that you still do not have any "pernts" over the last three and a half years... if such a scoreboard still existed. 

Sounds like something that is something people would like for the type of people that like that type of thing. 

2J1.gif.f11b11804e4cc9bf98669bbc485844fd.gif

Edited by Buzzetta
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paqart

paqart

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 7:25 PM, HighGrade said:

Oh yeah color pop! But I actually go over the current value many times just get the best book and really I think this is mistake people make blindly trusting last sales on GPA, you might see a grossly low price on GPA for a book only to find out it looked poor, or find a grossly over priced book and see it's got superior eye appeal. But I guess many just look at last sales, not the books anymore.

I like it when the black ink lines inside the comic stand up above the color inks below. I used to see that sometimes in the 1970's, but not later.

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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 2:06 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Does anyone have pictures of the $2000 AF #15 that was auctioned off by the Nassau County PD in the forfeiture of Wall of Fames "authentic " portion of inventory seized during the "Carlos Seneca" aka Danny Dupcak in 1998 ?

How crazy would it be to think this might have actual ties to that case? 

Just wanted to :bump: this as it got lost about 10 pages back due to this back and forth .

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