ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[paqart]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:08 PM, agamoto said:

I'll give you a predictive announcement:

"We've flagged all the suspicious books submitted by the individual and any other books related to the submitter which we deemed significant enough in value or prestige to consider worthy of further assurance investigation. Those books which we have reviewed and deemed not to have been swapped will be removed from the list by striking through the certification number. These books, since they are not affected, will retain their original certification number and slab. We continue our commitment to reviewing more books as they come in and regrading and encapsulating these books with new certification ID's. Above all else, please remember, there's only one scammer, this is a totally isolated incident, and these aren't the droids you're looking for. While we don't intend to pursue any criminal investigation, we look forward to running up the cost of our internal self-investigation so that we can pass them onto the scammer when we eventually nail them with a suit for injunctive relief and a restraining order. Please resume your healthy trade in 9.8 modern variants. Thanks."

I don't think so. It makes more sense to give new numbers to all of the comics, regardless whether they were swapped, to remove the taint. My guess is that CGC intends to permanently retire all of the 350 numbers they've identified.

[agamoto]

On 1/10/2024 at 6:22 PM, paqart said:

I don't think so. It makes more sense to give new numbers to all of the comics, regardless whether they were swapped, to remove the taint. My guess is that CGC intends to permanently retire all of the 350 numbers they've identified.

I honestly couldn't care what they are planning to do with the certs. Without the feds actually looking into the who, what, why and how much, it's all theater. 

[awakeintheashes]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:00 PM, wiparker824 said:

Seems like all of the above may be true, there isn’t any real consistency:

This book has a new graded date, but isn’t crossed off the list and has retained its cert number:

1589872-002

Amazing Fantasy #15 ("Stan Lee '86" written on page 1 in pen)

1962

Also it says this when you look it up now:

CGC Cert #

1589872002 - Contact reportfraud@collectiblesgroup.com if you own or are offered this book.

But if it was graded on 1/5/24 like it says then wouldn’t CGC be in possession of it? 

This book has been crossed off and doesn’t appear when you try to verify anymore presumably it got a new cert?

1341998-001

Amazing Spider-Man #1 (Signed by Stan Lee on 11/1/15)

1963

This book has been crossed off and does appear when you verify but without an updated graded date or an updated cert:

0800641-009

Avengers #57

1968

So yes, all of your questions are valid particularly because there isn’t really any pattern to what’s happening with books being removed.

[Mdesimone]

On 1/10/2024 at 7:57 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

If we have confirmed there are none new added to the list, then I have a follow up question

The ones that are crossed off, why are they?

Because they've been checked and deemed ok?

Because they've been checked and removed from the census?

Are no longer a valid cert?

Or were fine and CGC is leaving them with the same cert number but crossing them off "the list?"

🤔

My asm 129 was crossed off they recieved it on Monday and have yet to contact me about anything

[mrd160]

On 1/10/2024 at 9:00 PM, wiparker824 said:

Seems like all of the above may be true, there isn’t any real consistency:

This book has a new graded date, but isn’t crossed off the list and has retained its cert number:

1589872-002

Amazing Fantasy #15 ("Stan Lee '86" written on page 1 in pen)

1962

Also it says this when you look it up now:

CGC Cert #

1589872002 - Contact reportfraud@collectiblesgroup.com if you own or are offered this book.

But if it was graded on 1/5/24 like it says then wouldn’t CGC be in possession of it? 

This book has been crossed off and doesn’t appear when you try to verify anymore presumably it got a new cert?

1341998-001

Amazing Spider-Man #1 (Signed by Stan Lee on 11/1/15)

1963

This book has been crossed off and does appear when you verify but without an updated graded date or an updated cert:

0800641-009

Avengers #57

1968

So yes, all of your questions are valid particularly because there isn’t really any pattern to what’s happening with books being removed.

[Lightning55]

On 1/10/2024 at 10:33 PM, mrd160 said:

And you said you weren't good at social media....

[wiparker824]

The JIM 85 SS 8.0 that was triple signed and @Crimsonira confirmed bought not from eBay but directly from the NY shop being discussed a few pages back I can confirm was in the shops possession both before and after the reholder/custom label. On one of their other IG accounts (they have several) they posted this in Sept of 2016 captioned with “Personal Collection.”:

They then have posted it several other times but the first time after the reholder was in Aug of 2017 this one included the caption “before and after” 

The last post with it was this one in January of 2021 captioned SOLD!:

So, the idea they might have been sold the book by the scammer after the reholder doesn’t appear to be true. Should be noted this particular book appears to be the same before and after and have the same grade but it is on the list…

Edited January 11 by wiparker824

[MasterChief]

On 1/8/2024 at 5:18 AM, comicwiz said:

I've taken the analysis portion as far as I'd like from my end for the time being.

Joseph,

I was digging through an old external drive of comic book data files and came across your CGC forum detective badge* awarded many years ago. Unfortunately, I could only find the small version that appears to have been resaved one too many times.

 

Having seen it again I realized just how long you’ve been serving. Amazing work!

That said, and on behalf of your fellow detectives and hobbyists, thank you for 20 years of sustained superior performance and dedicated service to the CGC forum community and the comic book hobby at large. It is truly appreciated!

 

 

____________

* CGC Forum Detective Badges were created and awarded by Brad Hamann ( @Red Hook ) as public recognition for outstanding achievement and other acts or services of consumer protection that were above and beyond what is normally expected of CGC forum members. Criterion for award recommendation and consideration was based upon work performed to bring corruption and dishonesty within the hobby to the forefront, usually through data collection and study, the use of digital scan technology and comparative imagery analysis, and the presentation of findings and conclusions. Service to the general collecting community was a priority for consideration. Former award recipients include: @Rickdogg, @Jeffreykli, @OldGuy, Abrams, @delekkerste, Rosenberg, @Arty, @DiceX, @Davenport, @comicwiz, and MasterChief.

Edited January 12 by MasterChief
added Red Hook tag

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/10/2024 at 10:11 AM, drotto said:

Sure let's finish making the scammer the Al Capone of comic fraud.  The IRS will take him down for tax evasion.  Honestly, that might be the easiest route.

What if he's an upstanding citizen who pays all his taxes?

[wiparker824]

another photo from that shop’s IG that should make the heat gun theorists go wild… note the heat gun casually sitting next to all of these mega SA keys in the background.  

[MAR1979]

On 1/11/2024 at 6:48 AM, Sigur Ros said:

What if he's an upstanding citizen who pays all his taxes?

Then he might very well be the first Comic Book Dealer to ever do so.

Edited January 11 by MAR1979

[grendel013]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:43 AM, wiparker824 said:

another photo from that shop’s IG that should make the heat gun theorists go wild… note the heat gun casually sitting next to all of these mega SA keys in the background.  

Talk about finding the smoking gun.

[comicwiz]

On 1/11/2024 at 2:55 AM, MasterChief said:

Joseph,

I was digging through an old external drive of comic book data files and came across your CGC forum detective badge* awarded many years ago. Unfortunately, I could only find the small version that appears to have been resaved one too many times.

 

Having seen it again I realized just how long you’ve been serving. Amazing work!

That said, and on behalf of your fellow detectives and hobbyists, thank you for 20 years of sustained superior performance and dedicated service to the CGC forum community and the comic book hobby at large. It is truly appreciated!

 

 

____________

* CGC Forum Detective Badges were created and awarded by Brad Hamann (Red Hook) as public recognition for outstanding achievement and other acts or services of consumer protection that were above and beyond what is normally expected of CGC forum members. Criterion for award recommendation and consideration was based upon work performed to bring corruption and dishonesty within the hobby to the forefront, usually through data collection and study, the use of digital scan technology and comparative imagery analysis, and the presentation of findings and conclusions. Service to the general collecting community was a priority for consideration. Former award recipients include: rickdogg, Jeffreykli, OldGuy, Abrams, Delekkerste, Rosenberg, Arty, DiceX, Davenport, Comicwiz, and MasterChief.

 

I unfortunately don't have any external drive to source or mine the number of badges I'm certain you have earned yourself, in the long history of past scandals, but I definitely feel you merit more accolades for your detective work than I. I appreciate the kindness, gratitude and thought you put into this, but you my friend deserve an even bigger badge for all you have brought to light over the years. I consider myself hugely fortunate to have spent all the years i did making friends like you, both online and IRL, and gaining support from this community, and the community external to this one. It shows how crucial it is for us all to work together, to cooperate and to stand united, it's the only chance we have to see justice being served in instances like this one. It also reminds me that the baton has been passed to us from those who haven't fared as well in doing their part in past scandals, some have left for reasons which are totally understandable given the fact pattern of inaction by this company, and for this reason, if there's one thing I ask of the community at large here, is to demand answers from CGC. Demand transparency. Demand the truth. CGC needs to tell it all, tell it early and tell it themselves. As ugly as it might be, we deserve better than nothing to see here attitudes that have weighed-in to do their part to minimize. I can assure everyone, including those acting as advisors to the company, that I have seen great turnaround stories with some of the largest companies when they rolled-up their sleeves, course corrected and did what was both right and necessary, in the best interest of the consumer. Those that decided to stick their heads in the sand, cover-up or even hide what really went on were the ones that never came out of it unscathed. There's an opportunity for the right thing to happen here. 

Edited January 11 by comicwiz

[pdags]

On 1/11/2024 at 8:01 AM, grendel013 said:

Talk about finding the smoking gun.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-8977-20-Variable-Temperature-Model/dp/B01G780AOO

 

 

Edited January 11 by pdags

[EastEnd1]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:43 AM, wiparker824 said:

another photo from that shop’s IG that should make the heat gun theorists go wild… note the heat gun casually sitting next to all of these mega SA keys in the background.  

Wow, the scammer(s) is even dumber than we thought... first he captures a reflection of himself in virtually every slab photo he posted and now we see the "tool" of his/their illicit trade.  Should be an easy case for the FBI and prosecutor!

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:43 AM, wiparker824 said:

another photo from that shop’s IG that should make the heat gun theorists go wild… note the heat gun casually sitting next to all of these mega SA keys in the background.  

[mrd160]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:43 AM, wiparker824 said:

another photo from that shop’s IG that should make the heat gun theorists go wild… note the heat gun casually sitting next to all of these mega SA keys in the background.  

I saw that and is very difficult to explain away. It at least deserves serious scrutiny.That’s really really damning. I will just say this, I shared everything I KNOW for a fact with CGC and hopefully something will get done. 

Edited January 11 by mrd160

[lostboys]

On 1/11/2024 at 7:43 AM, wiparker824 said:

another photo from that shop’s IG that should make the heat gun theorists go wild… note the heat gun casually sitting next to all of these mega SA keys in the background.  

[wiparker824]

On 1/11/2024 at 6:51 AM, mrd160 said:

I saw that and is very difficult to explain away. It at least deserves serious scrutiny.That’s really really damning. I will just say this, I shared everything I KNOW for a fact with CGC and hopefully something will get done. 

Explained away: sometimes I like my comics roasted.

[mrd160]

On 1/11/2024 at 9:07 AM, wiparker824 said:

Explained away: sometimes I like my comics roasted.

When I share that picture with a dealer I know, he said it doesn’t mean anything he could just be using it to remove stickers. My response was I believe the gun goes to 1000° what the F are you talking about

Edited January 11 by mrd160