ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[awe4one]

On 1/29/2024 at 2:36 PM, sledgehammer said:

how many of the 377 pages have you read so far?

Apparently CGC does it different then the slabs I have,

Jim

[sledgehammer]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:51 PM, topcat54 said:

I was also wondering why this book was not on the list? #  3786339003

 

why do you think that it should be?

[comicjel]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:51 PM, topcat54 said:

I was also wondering why this book was not on the list? #  3786339003

 

Probably because it was not reholdered.

The current thinking is that the "list" are books that were reholdered by the scammer - but this is still just speculation.

You might ask, why wasn't this reholdered, since the scam, as we know it, involves getting legit 9.8 labels, and then reholdering them with inferior books? - that is a question that remains a mystery, and IMO is a reminder that we do not understand the whole scam yet. 

[comicwiz]

@CGC Mike would you be able to ask the team if this book that appears below, that has been struck off the list, is an impacted book or has been cleared please.

[comeaux]

On 1/28/2024 at 5:46 PM, Mdesimone said:

Why does CGC need a receipt?  

Just replace your book with the identical grade that you sent to them for inspection. 
 

CGC has not only bungled this entire fraud scheme that was executed at such a basic level, it’s embarrassing. I’m not sure when this latest slab came out but I was banned back then for calling it “TurdSlab” and apparently I was right, it’s complete garbage. 
 

CGC service quality is lower than whale krapp at ocean bottom and so is their customer service handling this fraud scheme to make their customers whole again. It’s pathetic 

 

[grendel013]

who was it that said this thread died?

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/29/2024 at 3:39 PM, awe4one said:

Apparently CGC does it different then the slabs I have,

Jim

Correct.

They do it with an inside man.

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:32 PM, grendel013 said:

who was it that said this thread died?

[comeaux]

On 1/29/2024 at 7:52 AM, Mdesimone said:

This is the response I get when asked how will I be compensated, because the price I paid back in 2019 is half of what it would be worth now

CGC 

[comeaux]

On 1/29/2024 at 12:18 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

hence the need for a receipt

[CGC Mike]

On 1/29/2024 at 6:26 PM, comicwiz said:

@CGC Mike would you be able to ask the team if this book that appears below, that has been struck off the list, is an impacted book or has been cleared please.

I will ask.

[CGC Mike]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:07 PM, Mdesimone said:

 Because I purchased it in 2019 for 1645 dollars including tax and shipping. Gpa is around 3000 today, the next part to the receipt is that I bought it on eBay , and they removed it. I have no way of getting this receipt, and finally why bother saying you will be fairly compensated for any losses on the site and in a YouTube video then tell me we are working on how we will compensate you but give me a receipt so we can move forward with what we want to do…

I brought this up to the team.  This was added to the FAQ:

What happens when I submit a book for Holder Review?

If your book is determined to be correctly graded, it will be reholdered with a new certification number and returned to you at no charge. If your book is determined to be incorrectly graded, CGC will retain your book as evidence, and you will be compensated for the current fair market value of an accurately graded book at the original incorrect (higher) grade. Fair market value is calculated in accordance with the CGC Guarantee.

Why does CGC ask for my purchase receipt when I submit a book for Holder Review?

CGC's request for your purchase receipt helps in our fulfillment of the CGC Guarantee as well as our ongoing investigation of this incident.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:36 PM, CGC Mike said:

I brought this up to the team.  This was added to the FAQ:

What happens when I submit a book for Holder Review?

If your book is determined to be correctly graded, it will be reholdered with a new certification number and returned to you at no charge. If your book is determined to be incorrectly graded, CGC will retain your book as evidence, and you will be compensated for the current fair market value of an accurately graded book at the original incorrect (higher) grade. Fair market value is calculated in accordance with the CGC Guarantee.

Why does CGC ask for my purchase receipt when I submit a book for Holder Review?

CGC's request for your purchase receipt helps in our fulfillment of the CGC Guarantee as well as our ongoing investigation of this incident.

Unfortunate that it is only replacement cost of the book and not funds as well...

With the extensive market of the past couple of years.

Maybe a receipt helps prosecution with just how much damage the scammer caused?

I can see it help investigation, but not sure how it deals with the cgc guarantee.

Idk

Edited January 30 by ADAMANTIUM

[comicwiz]

This summary involves a Fantastic Four 48 CGC 9.0. Of the six past sales data points we can track through GPA, there are only 5 which can be tracked through WP. The change of book inside the holder is noticed on sale date 1/28/2020 (#6 in the summary below)

Certification: 1012329005
Fantastic Four (1961) #48 CGC 9.0

Beginning first with a cert look-up for posterity:

Screenshot of the cert on the 350 list for posterity:

1) Cert: 1012329005  {3/20/2011} | $988

2) Cert: 1012329005 [6/13/2012} | $1,132

3) Cert: 1012329005 {9/29/2012} | $1,000 (No WP record of this sale)

4) Cert: 1012329005 [2/18/2018] | $2,950

5) Cert: 1012329005 [2/21/2018 | $2,700

6) Cert: 1012329005 [1/28/2020] - $5,302 - this is where we notice the book inside the holder change - the easiest way to ascertain the differences are the gaps in art from both the Watcher's leg to the spine, and The Thing's foot to the outer edge (see comparison pics at the end of this summary)

Additional notes: Comparison pics to show the differences between the two books inside the holder

Edited January 30 by comicwiz

[maz25]

On 1/22/2024 at 6:31 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Yes they are failures because they failed time and time again to make any real strides to become a legitimate threat when CGC has allowed them to come in.  CGC is WWE and they are WCW.  Eventually WCW went under, and bought by WWE.  Heck even WCW put up a valiant fight.  So that Voldey has been useless.  I would love a true comic grading company WAR!  Like we did with the Monday Night Wars of the late 90's.  Consumer wins when that happens!

No major dealer uses them to sell big books on a consistent basis.

Their verified signature program has proven to not-trustworthy.

That 10-20% gap has been that way since they opened up shop so let me know when they close that gap and I will gladly start submitting to them as well.

Everyone can agree competition is good thing, I am just waiting for a real company to actually show up to challenge them. So far nothing in 24 years.

nWo ftw - new ,new, new, new world order, new world order

[Lightning55]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:36 PM, CGC Mike said:

I brought this up to the team.  This was added to the FAQ:

What happens when I submit a book for Holder Review?

If your book is determined to be correctly graded, it will be reholdered with a new certification number and returned to you at no charge. If your book is determined to be incorrectly graded, CGC will retain your book as evidence, and you will be compensated for the current fair market value of an accurately graded book at the original incorrect (higher) grade. Fair market value is calculated in accordance with the CGC Guarantee.

Why does CGC ask for my purchase receipt when I submit a book for Holder Review?

CGC's request for your purchase receipt helps in our fulfillment of the CGC Guarantee as well as our ongoing investigation of this incident.

"CGC will retain your book as evidence"???

What if you don't want them to keep your property

If you are the owner, you should decide who gets to keep your property.

If those are the terms under which you are submitting for a Holder Review, and you agree with the terms, then I guess that's the way it is.  Might be a tough decision for some. 

But I don't know if you have much choice.  You do need to know what is in the case.

[awe4one]

On 1/29/2024 at 2:37 PM, drotto said:

In the current generation slabs, the label is not attached to the inner well.  It sits in a separate compartment all by itself.

But the comic in the video that generation slabbed comic the label was slabbed in the inner holder. You would need to cut it out. To resubmit it you would need CGC style materials and equipment to make it look legit before resubmitting.

Jim

[comicwiz]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:47 AM, awe4one said:

But the comic in the video that generation slabbed comic the label was slabbed in the inner holder. You would need to cut it out. To resubmit it you would need CGC style materials and equipment to make it look legit before resubmitting.

Jim

Start with going through the project green to blue books - this link compiles all of them with a visual matrix. No one here or on YouTube knows for certain how the swaps happened. I have an idea after going through several hundred books since Decemeber how it's being done. However, there is some variability between the way the swaps are made as well because each scheme exploits the holder and/or process differently. Following each linked example of green to blue, seeing the donor book become a blue, will give you a better sense of what I'm describing above. 

 

[sledgehammer]

On 1/30/2024 at 12:05 AM, Lightning55 said:

"CGC will retain your book as evidence"???

What if you don't want them to keep your property

If you are the owner, you should decide who gets to keep your property.

If those are the terms under which you are submitting for a Holder Review, and you agree with the terms, then I guess that's the way it is.  Might be a tough decision for some. 

But I don't know if you have much choice.  You do need to know what is in the case.

All of this language sounds like legalese to me, mainly designed to make sure that scamboy no longer profits from anything.

There is a chance that he is still holding books that he submitted. Any of them that CGC identifies by cert # of his submissions ( and that number may be much higher than "the list" at this point already) will be permanently marked until they decide to clear them.

Receipts just document that he is not trying to clear them through intermediaries. Wouldn't you guess that he is not one of their favorite people right now?

I doubt very much that someone that wants their property back, that documents a sale, will get a beef about having it returned.

[comicwiz]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:47 AM, awe4one said:

But the comic in the video that generation slabbed comic the label was slabbed in the inner holder. You would need to cut it out. To resubmit it you would need CGC style materials and equipment to make it look legit before resubmitting.

Jim

Then try to work your way through this compendium of posts. It is important to visually go through the way each facet of the summary explains things, from the cert screenshot (some having been revised or removed since these were posted), changes in grade date, when the book first appeared for sale, and then later reappeared changed. These are different from the project green to blue, because these books appear to maintain the same certification with completely different books reappearing after passing through the alleged seller that is linked to this "holder tampering." This should give you some sense of what I mean by variability, and establish a baseline on what CGC has described as "holder tampering." Again, there are a lot of unanswered questions here, no one other than CGC should  be addressing these:

FF 48 CGC 9.0 - Certification: 1012329005

ASM 129 CGC 9.0 - Certification: 1028057001

Avengers 57 CGC 9.4 - Certification: 0966088004

ASM 252 CGC 9.8 - Certification: 1257876006

X-Men 266 CGC 9.8 - Certification: 2120143023

ASM 238 CGC 9.8 - Certification: 3805448018

ASM 238 CGC 9.8 - Certification: 4109535001

Noticing Changes to Grade Date:

Financial Toll & Analysis

Hulk 181 CGC 8.5 - Certification: 1295091001

Hulk 181 CGC 9.0 - Certification: 1055471002

Hulk 181 CGC 9.4 - Certification: 0052830003

Avengers 57 CGC SS 9.6 - Certification: 1478893002

Financial assessment of 17 of the 19 Hulk 181's on the (350) Impacted List

Hulk 181 CGC 9.2 - Certification: 0013796019