ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[comicwiz]

On 2/22/2024 at 12:30 PM, Number 6 said:

I'm not an expert, but that label looks fake to my eyes.

Sure, you can spot this label from a mile away. Font/weight is really off, won't pass through a seasoned set of eyes, but I guess that's why it ended-up in a pawn shop. However, I want people to take a close look at that bind, especially the top left where you see reflectivity from the above lighting. That isn't some junky wrap. Then stop to think, if there's one type of book that gets targeted for repro wraps, which ones would they be?

Edited February 22 by comicwiz

[comicwiz]

On 2/22/2024 at 2:28 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Thinner maybe?

I feel like sesame Street paint by numbers.

It's not only font, but weight, cap height, kerning. All wrong.

[BrashL]

On 2/22/2024 at 1:31 PM, comicwiz said:

It's not only font, but weight, cap height, kerning. All wrong.

In your estimation is the hologram counterfeit too?

[comicwiz]

On 2/22/2024 at 2:35 PM, BrashL said:

In your estimation is the hologram counterfeit too?

It's hard to tell with any certainty from the angle the pics were taken, however the simplest thing to consider is this. If they couldn't get the font/weight/kerning right on the label, that would be one hell of an accomplishment to have done it convincingly for the hologram. For that reason alone, I'm leaning on it being right. However, the coin slabs have had a history of holograms being knocked-off, it all depends on the parts used here. If it's just recycled holders from a crack out, then that hologram would likely be real. If it's some offshore sourced holder where they thought to include a knock-off hologram for their "slab-kit", then it's fugazzi. 

Edited February 22 by comicwiz

[manetteska]

On 2/22/2024 at 1:31 PM, comicwiz said:

It's not only font, but weight, cap height, kerning. All wrong.

[grendel013]

On 2/22/2024 at 12:27 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Has this been posted? I doubt it's the same scammer, which begs the question, "How many people are out there doing this?"

This was on social media. Evidently last July a guy used this book as collateral for a $500 loan at a pawn shop and never returned. When the slab was opened...

I won't question the grade but I disagree with it having White pages. That's for certain.

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/22/2024 at 12:27 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

 

Looks like a better story than anything Erik Larsen wrote.

[thehumantorch]

On 2/22/2024 at 12:14 PM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

 

That is the best interior art I've seen in a very long time.

Sketch interior?

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/22/2024 at 6:51 PM, thehumantorch said:

On 2/22/2024 at 1:14 PM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

 

That is the best interior art I've seen in a very long time.

Sketchy interior?

FTFY. 

[grendel013]

On 2/22/2024 at 7:51 PM, thehumantorch said:

Sketch interior?

It would have been even crueler if they wrote something like "GOTCHA".

[thehumantorch]

On 2/22/2024 at 6:22 PM, grendel013 said:

It would have been even crueler if they wrote something like "GOTCHA".

That's awesome, next time..

[drotto]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:22 PM, grendel013 said:

We take a number of defensive measures, such as imaging all collectibles, testing and upgrading the seals on our holders, releasing new high-security holograms and adding variable QR codes, with more to come. We also go on the offense and aggressively pursue bad actors, big and small, across the globe. We will keep the community informed of all of these developments, and today I’d like to give you an update on our legal efforts

This is from the letter.  I am looking specifically at the line of testing and upgrading the seals on our holders, new holograms, and new variable QR codes.  Has anyone seen evidence of any of these items yet in the wild?  If so can we see some pictures of them?  its all well and good to say these things, show us. I also have a few reactions.

1. Seems like testing new seals is just avoiding the fact you need a better holder.  Is one in development, we all remember how proudly you promoted the Gen 3 case? Not saying I expect it to be done in a month, but it one in the works?

2. In the swapping case scenario, a better hologram means nothing,  unless it is being placed in a way it would be destroyed if the case is opened. 

3. Variable VR codes again mean nothing when swapping a case. It may help with the inside job situation, but that person had access to the label generator.. Only time it could help is if people are outright forging labels at home. 

[comicjel]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:01 AM, drotto said:

This is from the letter.  I am looking specifically at the line of testing and upgrading the seals on our holders, new holograms, and new variable QR codes.  Has anyone seen evidence of any of these items yet in the wild?  If so can we see some pictures of them?  its all well and good to say these things, show us. I also have a few reactions.

1. Seems like testing new seals is just avoiding the fact you need a better holder.  Is one in development, we all remember how proudly you promoted the Gen 3 case? Not saying I expect it to be done in a month, but it one in the works?

2. In the swapping case scenario, a better hologram means nothing,  unless it is being placed in a way it would be destroyed if the case is opened. 

3. Variable VR codes again mean nothing when swapping a case. It may help with the inside job situation, but that person had access to the label generator.. Only time it could help is if people are outright forging labels at home. 

I still think a small scan of the actual comic on the label would be good, but if not that, they should consider a hologram on the label in addition to the outside case - as they close the loophole with the reholdering, I suspect there will be an increase in counterfeit everything (like the ASM 667).  

[comicwiz]

Daredevil 1 CGC 8.5 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

(NOTE: This shifts the timeline of alleged tampering further back to Jan 15, 2018)

Over the past two weeks, I shared two UNLISTED books (FF 48 CGC 5.5 and ASM 300 CGC 9.8) and have continued compiling others. I continue to try to set aside time to work on this because of its significance, and would like to share the third UNLISTED today because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold.

Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure, ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer).

Certification: 1202031002 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Daredevil (1964-1998) #1 CGC 8.5

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in January 15th, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

==============

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this Daredevil 1 appears twice for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last:

Cert: 1202031002
Daredevil (1964-1998) #1 CGC 8.5

302012634340 | ebay | Seller: potatochipman |Cert: 1202031002 [7/19/2016] | $5,818

282813660478 | ebay | Seller: alleged seller | Cert: 1202031002 [1/28/2018] | $7,363

Edited February 23 by comicwiz

[comicwiz]

 

[EastEnd1]

On 2/23/2024 at 10:01 AM, drotto said:

1. Seems like testing new seals is just avoiding the fact you need a better holder.  Is one in development, we all remember how proudly you promoted the Gen 3 case? Not saying I expect it to be done in a month, but it one in the works?

I recently got back an order of golden age books... many did have tighter seals all around the case but there were still a few that easily had some give at the centers of each edge.

 

 

[EastEnd1]

On 2/23/2024 at 11:47 AM, comicwiz said:

 

Exemplary work as always... thank you so much.  

This is just horrifying.

[Tnexus]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:47 AM, comicwiz said:

Daredevil 1 CGC 8.5 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

(NOTE: This shifts the timeline of tampering further back to Jan 15, 2018)

Over the past two weeks, I shared two UNLISTED books (FF 48 CGC 5.5 and ASM 300 CGC 9.8) and have continued compiling others. I continue to try to set aside time to work on this because of its significance, and would like to share the third UNLISTED today because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold.

Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure, ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer).

Certification: 1202031002 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Daredevil (1964-1998) #1 CGC 8.5

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in January 15th, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

==============

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this Daredevil 1 appears twice for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last:

Cert: 1202031002
Daredevil (1964-1998) #1 CGC 8.5

302012634340 | ebay | Seller: potatochipman |Cert: 1202031002 [7/19/2016] | $5,818

282813660478 | ebay | Seller: alleged seller | Cert: 1202031002 [1/28/2018] | $7,363

What was the username of the scammer on this one?

[Sensei Ryan]

On 2/23/2024 at 11:47 AM, comicwiz said:

 

So after reading about this new news on the DD#1 (which definitely is horrifying) - does this mean these scams have been going on since this far back, prior to 2018 even? 

Sorry if I missed that along the way...but having a few old CGC keys I'm trying not to be too paranoid about my investments.

Seeing this makes me more worried than I already was...

[Mr. Zipper]

On 2/23/2024 at 11:47 AM, comicwiz said:

 

Have you had any luck finding a donor book? In the case of DD #1, I assume the donor was slabbed and likely sold not that far in advance of when the switch appeared. Or is that a bad assumption?