ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Timed]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:38 PM, ThothAmon said:

Are you talking about, if I’m reading it correctly, the one negative that is in his feedback history?  If so I’ll withhold such a withering judgment personally. 

His feedback is fine, but the amount of 9.8 grails he has is eyebrow-raising.

[Lightning55]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:20 PM, Timed said:

His feedback is fine, but the amount of 9.8 grails he has is eyebrow-raising.

Yeah, multiple copies of specific grails in 9.8 that coincidentally don't look 9.8 at all.

[Lightning55]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:24 PM, WolverineX said:

Doesn't CGC scan photos of books now? 

They always took photos, but only recently made them available on the cert lookup page.

Which makes them perfectly positioned to investigate this situation. The could check the original scans and compare to the reholder scans. Super easy, but will they do it? And if they found it to be swapping, probably not too anxious to publicize it.

[WolverineX]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:31 PM, Lightning55 said:

They always took photos, but only recently made them available on the cert lookup page.

Which makes them perfectly positioned to investigate this situation. The could check the original scans and compare to the reholder scans. Super easy, but will they do it? And if they found it to be swapping, probably not too anxious to publicize it.

better to strike while the iron is hot.  otherwise it will only get worse

[sledgehammer]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:11 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

His feedback definitely looks good.  What do you think is going on here?

I think he's reholdering lesser grade books, but of course I could be wrong

He sold an IH 181 9.0 for $7,100 on 10/31. The back cover has stains and color loss.

That same certification number was sold for $9,995 on July 10th.

So again, 90 days+ later.

Smells very bad to me.

[Yorick]

My guess is that CGC did not "reholder" any of those.  CGC has not been sealing every case that it sends out.  People sell the unsealed cases (or give them away).  Just print the new label with an existing serial number (should be of a book you still have possession of) use a sub-graded copy (sealed in an INNER WELL) and mash them together.  Probably much easier to print those colorful labels and get away with it than the regular blue ones.

[Timed]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:35 PM, sledgehammer said:

I think he's reholdering lesser grade books, but of course I could be wrong

He sold an IH 181 9.0 for $7,100 on 10/31. The back cover has stains and color loss.

That same certification number was sold for $9,995 on July 10th.

So again, 90 days+ later.

Smells very bad to me.

Have a link to the July sale?

[Timed]

On 12/17/2023 at 2:45 PM, Yorick said:

My guess is that CGC did not "reholder" any of those.  CGC has not been sealing every case that it sends out.  People sell the unsealed cases (or give them away).  Just print the new label with an existing serial number (should be of a book you still have possession of) use a sub-graded copy (sealed in an INNER WELL) and mash them together.  Probably much easier to print those colorful labels and get away with it than the regular blue ones.

CGC did reholder, at least for the 252 MJ. The CGC scans show the new lower-grade book in the slab.

[Timed]

..

Edited December 17, 2023 by Timed
double post

[Yorick]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:47 PM, Timed said:

CGC did reholder, at least for the 252 MJ. The CGC scans show the new lower-grade book in the slab.

Thanks.  I must not have caught that part...

CGC's lenient grading these days...  I'm hoping my current submission results in all 10s!

[WolverineX]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:47 PM, Timed said:

CGC did reholder, at least for the 252 MJ. The CGC scans show the new lower-grade book in the slab.

this is what I'm talking about.  getting juicy

[ThothAmon]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:11 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

His feedback definitely looks good.  What do you think is going on here?

People need to step back from the edge as evidence of nefarious behavior is flimsy and speculative at best. First off the only photo CGC has available (using both GPA sales links) is the re-capsulated custom label. The photo shown for the summer eBay sale was (I guess) harvested from eBay although it is no longer there from my research. We all know how different the same book can look under different photo conditions so I’m not convinced it’s a different book at all. In order to reholder without a regrade doesn’t CGC have to crack it out?  

Edited December 17, 2023 by ThothAmon

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/17/2023 at 4:02 PM, ThothAmon said:

People need to step back from the edge as evidence of nefarious is flimsy and speculative at best. First off the only photo CGC has available (using both GPA sales links) is the re-capsulated custom label. The photo shown for the summer eBay sale was (I guess) harvested from eBay although it is no longer there from my research. We all know how different the same book can look under different photo conditions so I’m not convinced it’s a different book at all. In order to reholder without a regrade doesn’t CGC have to crack it out?  

I don’t think there’s any question that they aren’t the same books. 
 

Did you watch the video?

Edited December 17, 2023 by THE_BEYONDER

[ThothAmon]

On 12/17/2023 at 4:04 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I don’t think there’s any question that they aren’t the same books. 

In my mind there is. We only know any facts about the CGC taken photo of the custom label book. Need to know more info about the original sale to state with any certainty. I didn’t read all the instagram comments to see if any more info about the original sale was provided.  Now, If they aren’t the same book I’d agree something ain’t right. I watched the video closely to see all the information about the earlier photo. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by ThothAmon

[sledgehammer]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:12 PM, ThothAmon said:

On 12/17/2023 at 3:04 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I don’t think there’s any question that they aren’t the same books. 

In my mind there is.

Good for you.

Why is your reaction to "thank you emoji" somebody asking for "a link to the July 10th sale" of the IH 181 9.0 that sold again just over 90 days later:.

Do you have GPA? Look up the sale of that certification number yourself. Don't act like I'm lying.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285530585196?hash=item427af2f86c:g:9OMAAOSwT-hlOFoY

[ThothAmon]

On 12/17/2023 at 4:32 PM, sledgehammer said:

Good for you.

Why is your reaction to "thank you emoji" somebody asking for "a link to the July 10th sale" of the IH 181 9.0 that sold again just over 90 days later:.

Do you have GPA? Look up the sale of that certification number yourself. Don't act like I'm lying.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285530585196?hash=item427af2f86c:g:9OMAAOSwT-hlOFoY

Please don’t presume my use of emojis if im reading your reply correctly. I thought I was thanking someone requesting a link to the earlier ASM 252 sale. Nothing questioning you in any way intended. 
 

As far as gpa goes I do have it and as I’ve pointed out the CGC graders photo for both asm 252 9.8 sales is the same so I was hoping to view the earlier sale directly. 

[Nick Furious]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:12 PM, ThothAmon said:

In my mind there is. We only know any facts about the CGC taken photo of the custom label book. Need to know more info about the original sale to state with any certainty. I didn’t read all the instagram comments to see if any more info about the original sale was provided.  Now, If they aren’t the same book I’d agree something ain’t right. I watched the video closely to see all the information about the earlier photo. 

To assume they are the same book, one has to explain away the previous photo, the current condition and the idea that both CGC and the original submitter missed the fact that it was a Mark Jeweler.  I find it much more reasonable to conclude that they are not the same book.  

[J Bill]

I would think the difference in the wrap pretty much says it all? Not looking for a conspiracy here, but it is interesting that CGC started offering photos of the books for free in the past, what, 6-8 months? Will definitely help bring some clarity to situations like this going forward.

[sledgehammer]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:56 PM, J Bill said:

I would think the difference in the wrap pretty much says it all? 

Yes.

You can see the difference clearly here.

 

 

[Nazirite]

On 12/17/2023 at 12:51 PM, Number 6 said:

before finally acknowledging that there’s a problem and actually doing something about it

Which they did not have to do….