ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[sledgehammer]

On 12/19/2023 at 7:31 AM, Mikey C said:

I’d be curious to see pics of the $3k sale to see if we have another book swap. Judging by the prices, the $3k sale was for a newsstand, as you mentioned. Crack, slide a lower grade MJ in, send to CGC and let them know they “missed” it. Wild. 
 

 

Really, all they had to do was ask for a reholder.

I don't think the repetitive "You missed the MJ insert" would work so long.

Even with the massive quantity of books they grade, shouldn't somebody have noticed "Wow. We missed another MJ insert, on a reholder??"

probably not.....

[sledgehammer]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:01 AM, WolverineX said:

these 5 digit MJ sales seem like farce too me. ... has anyone else sold them for that much?

The last ASM 252 9.9 sale was an increase from around $3,500 to $24K.

Too many farces for fingers.

[Timed]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:47 AM, sledgehammer said:

Same seller.

This NM 98 book sold on July 11th at a 9.8 newsstand price of $3,000.   graded 2011.

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/0180388004/

 

Then it sold December 12th at a MJ 9.8 price of over $12K.  new label, but not a special label. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285589086349?hash=item427e6fa08d:g:PeYAAOSwkv9lbAfQ

 

 

 

This is almost, if not, the nail in the coffin. Do you use GPA to find cert # sales or a different platform?

[sledgehammer]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:19 AM, Timed said:

This is almost, if not, the nail in the coffin. Do you use GPA to find cert # sales or a different platform?

Yes, GPA.

[Timed]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:21 AM, sledgehammer said:

Yes, GPA.

Looks like I need to sign up for that then.

[GDN]

On 12/19/2023 at 5:31 AM, Mikey C said:

I’d be curious to see pics of the $3k sale to see if we have another book swap. Judging by the prices, the $3k sale was for a newsstand, as you mentioned. Crack, slide a lower grade MJ in, send to CGC and let them know they “missed” it. Wild. 
 

 

You can see photos of the July 11 sale on GoCollect.  It is not the same book as the December MJ sale despite the same CGC #.  The July book's wrap shows most of the $ sign by the 1.00.  The MJ book has a worse wrap and you can't even see the $ sign from the front.

I tried to find a lower grade MJ sale that matches the 9.8 MJ but can't find one through GoCollect.  Of course many other places he could have bought it that won't get pulled into GoCollect.

[lostboys]

 

 

When I first started cracking out my books, it was a major pain in the butt because I was trying to crack the slab open on all sides.

 

Ive learned the top of the slab is the easiest door to pull an inner well through... and it doesnt visibly damaging the case.

 

The top corners pop open with very little effort... then just slide a finger nail along the top... stick your pinky in there to hold it open... turn it upside down and shake it until the inner well falls... grab it and pull it out.

 

Ive done it so many times at this point that its not even a challenge.

 

I probably have over 20 - 25 pristine empty slabs in my basement

 

Do better, CGC.

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by lostboys

[jsilverjanet]

the problem (and solution) seems very simple to me

CGC does not regrade on the reholders - part of that is because they don't want to admit they may have made a mistake when they graded the book the first time (or don't have enough staff etc)

CGC needs to change it's policy that it will regrade all reholder books

of course that means that damage caused by their case, encasing etc will be their responsibility, something in the past that they tried to accept responsibility for

[THE_BEYONDER]

Has there been more chatter about this ASM 252 MJ on Instagram?

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/19/2023 at 11:06 AM, jsilverjanet said:

the problem (and solution) seems very simple to me

CGC does not regrade on the reholders - part of that is because they don't want to admit they may have made a mistake when they graded the book the first time (or don't have enough staff etc)

CGC needs to change it's policy that it will regrade all reholder books

of course that means that damage caused by their case, encasing etc will be their responsibility, something in the past that they tried to accept responsibility for

Then begs the question, "why even have a reholder service? Just send in for a press since it will regrade anyway and see if you improve or stay the same!"  

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/19/2023 at 9:41 AM, lostboys said:

 

 

When I first started cracking out my books, it was a major pain in the butt because I was trying to crack the slab open on all sides.

 

Ive learned the top of the slab is the easiest door to pull an inner well through... and it doesnt visibly damaging the case.

 

The top corners pop open with very little effort... then just slide a finger nail along the top... stick your pinky in there to hold it open... turn it upside down and shake it until the inner well falls... grab it and pull it out.

 

Ive done it so many times at this point that its not even a challenge.

 

I probably have over 20 - 25 pristine empty slabs in my basement

 

Do better, CGC.

 

Of course what it doesn't change is this post....

Are they as easy to slide back in to an empty case and without hurting the book in the inner well as removing them?

[ADAMANTIUM]

well if the "tops are popped", I guess that would still be "tamper evident"  

[Mikey C]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:11 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Has there been more chatter about this ASM 252 MJ on Instagram?

Yup, check out WestCoastDavengers YouTube channel. The guy that figures this out gives out the instagram of the offending seller. Lots of good info. 

[Timed]

It's believed that the culprit took the inner well (unscathed and still intact) out of a lower grade slab and slid it into the 9.8 slab.

Instead of having to regrade all reholders, I think a better solution would be to write/engrave the CGC certification number on the inner well of each slab.

[Motor City Rob]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:26 PM, Timed said:

It's believed that the culprit took the inner well (unscathed and still intact) out of a lower grade slab and slid it into the 9.8 slab.

Instead of having to regrade all reholders, I think a better solution would be to write/engrave the CGC certification number on the inner well of each slab.

This is a great idea!

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 12/19/2023 at 11:28 AM, Motor City Rob said:

On 12/19/2023 at 11:26 AM, Timed said:

It's believed that the culprit took the inner well (unscathed and still intact) out of a lower grade slab and slid it into the 9.8 slab.

Instead of having to regrade all reholders, I think a better solution would be to write/engrave the CGC certification number on the inner well of each slab.

This is a great idea!

While yes it is good, 20 plus years of service Lord willing not down the drain in the process. 

Merry Christmas  

[ADAMANTIUM]

I still blame the guy doing it, if ever confirmed and or even with any suspicion it gets rectified.

After that last post I thought to eat lunch and maybe I was just hungry 

Then I thought of this gif, as it was better and it made me chuckle  IT'S CHRISTMAS!!

Edited December 19, 2023 by ADAMANTIUM

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:22 PM, Mikey C said:

Yup, check out WestCoastDavengers YouTube channel. The guy that figures this out gives out the instagram of the offending seller. Lots of good info. 

Got a link?  I couldn’t find anything about the ASM 252….

[Mikey C]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:26 PM, Timed said:

It's believed that the culprit took the inner well (unscathed and still intact) out of a lower grade slab and slid it into the 9.8 slab.

Instead of having to regrade all reholders, I think a better solution would be to write/engrave the CGC certification number on the inner well of each slab.

This is absolutely what he did. 
 

Cleanly crack out the 9.8, slide out the inner well, slide in a lower grade MJ. Send back to CGC for a reholder to get the custom label and let them know they missed the MJ insert or send it in damaged for reholder. I’m thinking for former since it’s been proven that the cases can be opened fairly cleanly.
 

The 9.8 he purchased in August (that was cracked out and carried the same certification # as the MJ that just sold) was sent back to CGC raw in September, graded a 9.8 newsstand and that copy sold on 10/3 (with new cert #). He double dipped. 

[Mikey C]

On 12/19/2023 at 12:42 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Got a link?  I couldn’t find anything about the ASM 252….

Here are the two videos with the guy who figured this out as he’s a high grade MJ collector: