Certified Collectibles Group to Acquire James Spence Authentication 10 10

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 3/27/2024 at 9:44 AM, NewWorldOrder said:

Can we all agree Jim Lee has the most embarrassing signature in the hobby today?

 

 

[cousin itt]

How on earth are they going to be able to verify those?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Edited March 28 by RockMyAmadeus

[wombat]

They said they would start offering this service in April. When do you think they will let us know what color slab it will get?

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 3/28/2024 at 2:57 PM, wombat said:

They said they would start offering this service in April. When do you think they will let us know what color slab it will get?

The day you go on to the submission forms and can see the option to submit it. Otherwise a few days later when they announce it. 

[postersandstuff]

On 3/28/2024 at 7:11 PM, cousin itt said:

How on earth are they going to be able to verify those?

how are they gonna verify my Jon Benn/Riki Hashimoto (Bruce Lee villains fyi) or other obscure sigs ?

(Benn was bought directly from him & Hashimoto matches sig of someone that met him in Japan)

Edited April 4 by postersandstuff

[DougC]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:43 AM, postersandstuff said:

how are they gonna verify my Jon Benn/Riki Hashimoto (Bruce Lee villains fyi) or other obscure sigs ?

(Benn was bought directly from him & Hashimoto matches sig of someone that met him in Japan)

The same way JSA always has...

If they (or PSA) cannot confirm a signature due to it being obscure; they will err on the side of caution and return it as "unable to verify signature". Which is what they currently do.

[GACollectibles]

Couple 'o thoughts. Some of this may already have been voiced.

1) I think adding a Verified service for comics would dilute the CGC Signature Series brand, one that has been championed as the only all-witnessed product, and valued for this by collectors.

2) CBCS never would have been started if CGC did this years ago, one of the main goals of a founder of the company was to acknowledge verified signatures

3) I feel this may have an adverse affect on the SS process in general.  (Previously mentioned in another post) One potential aspect is related to the creators who are charging more for SS signatures, a customer now can pay the lower (non-SS) signing price and then go and submit the book for Verified status. Shenanigans galore. There won't be a need for the facilitator, bottom line might mean that creator signature prices go up across the board to counter this tactic which of course affects the true raw signed book collectors wallet.

4) Possible use of JSA for CGC application? Limit the authentication to creators/celebrities, etc to those that have passed away prior to the inception of the Signature Series program, and give it a completely different label.  Easy peasy, with less/little/no detrimental effects on the SS program as it is.

[wombat]

On 4/4/2024 at 10:33 AM, GACollectibles said:

There won't be a need for the facilitator

I was thinking about this. I wonder how much this will eat into their business. If its something for your personal collection that you don't care about selling you probably don't care about verified vs. witnessed if you are actually getting it done yourself. You will know its real not matter what. 

Just as an example, I'm going to a show at the end of the month where a lot of the cast from The Warriors will be there. In the past I would have looked for a facilitator. Now I don't care. And as a plus JSA is going to be at this show. I'm not sure how it all works, but I assume I can get them to verify right there on the spot. 

[Poutine]

Everyone knows this is a ploy to stop hemorrhaging due to bad business practices, right?

Until the dealers that prop this place up start bleeding, nothing is sacred.

Just a ploy for investors, people. 

[nrellyson]

There's one major reason I am certain that verified signatures won't fall under the signature series label and will therefore have a different color is this statement on the about page for the Signature Series:

"With CGC Signature Series, collectors can have their comic books, magazines, posters and prints signed by artists and creators in the presence of a CGC representative. The authenticity of the signature is then 100% certain, making the collectible eligible for the iconic CGC Signature Series yellow label."

JSA sigbature authentication does not and cannot offer the same guarantee about the signatures they authenticate. There's no way to be 100% certain of the authenticity unless it was witnessed so all they can say is in their best expert opinion, the signature is likely authentic. Without the 100% certainty and based on CGC's own marketing for the program, verified signatures will not be eligible for the "iconic CGC Signature Series yellow label".

Honestly, with a marketing clam and statement like that, giving a verified signature the yellow label would likely open them up to lawsuits. Collectors have been paying a premium for signature series books partially because the yellow label means 100% certainty of authenticity. While I know the odds are low, a verified signature could always potentially be fake unless you personally witnessed it and is never gonna be as valuable as a witnessed signature for that very reason. If CGC were to add verified signature to the signature series, the yellow color of the label itself would no longer mean 100% authentic. Even if its differentiated somewhere, collectors would no longer see that iconic yellow label and be 100% certain about a signature without having to read the label. Makes the yellow labelee books less attractive on the secondary market and would likely reduce demand and hurt sales. Folks wouldn't be happy with that

[wombat]

On 4/4/2024 at 9:33 PM, nrellyson said:

Makes the yellow labelee books less attractive on the secondary market and would likely reduce demand and hurt sales. Folks wouldn't be happy with that

Some folks would be happy................

[greggy]

@BlowUpTheMoon

[DougC]

On 4/4/2024 at 8:33 PM, nrellyson said:

There's one major reason I am certain that verified signatures won't fall under the signature series label and will therefore have a different color is this statement on the about page for the Signature Series:

"With CGC Signature Series, collectors can have their comic books, magazines, posters and prints signed by artists and creators in the presence of a CGC representative. The authenticity of the signature is then 100% certain, making the collectible eligible for the iconic CGC Signature Series yellow label."

JSA sigbature authentication does not and cannot offer the same guarantee about the signatures they authenticate. There's no way to be 100% certain of the authenticity unless it was witnessed so all they can say is in their best expert opinion, the signature is likely authentic. Without the 100% certainty and based on CGC's own marketing for the program, verified signatures will not be eligible for the "iconic CGC Signature Series yellow label".

Honestly, with a marketing clam and statement like that, giving a verified signature the yellow label would likely open them up to lawsuits. Collectors have been paying a premium for signature series books partially because the yellow label means 100% certainty of authenticity. While I know the odds are low, a verified signature could always potentially be fake unless you personally witnessed it and is never gonna be as valuable as a witnessed signature for that very reason. If CGC were to add verified signature to the signature series, the yellow color of the label itself would no longer mean 100% authentic. Even if its differentiated somewhere, collectors would no longer see that iconic yellow label and be 100% certain about a signature without having to read the label. Makes the yellow labelee books less attractive on the secondary market and would likely reduce demand and hurt sales. Folks wouldn't be happy with that

Just a couple notes... JSA currently offers both third party authentication and in person witnessed signature authentication.

Secondly CGC signature series is a niche inside a niche that many people still do not understand and learn the hard way after getting a book signed. The 100% claim is industry puffery as there has been instances in the past of bad actors and shenanigans; CGC currently allows artists to take books home to finish so there is always a chance of another Kirby/Dynamic Forces.

 

More so on the topic at hand; I have backed off the position they will be yellow labels with JSA notations... slightly.

What I do think will happen is that a new color label will be announced for 2024 then in 2026 they will announce merging the labels into a single yellow label going forward to "help with customer confusion", offer a 30 day discount to get your old labels changed over, and never look back.

 

[wombat]

My thinking is the longer they wait to tell us the color of the label the more likely it is to be yellow. 

[s-man]

On 4/5/2024 at 1:29 AM, wombat said:

My thinking is the longer they wait to tell us the color of the label the more likely it is to be yellow. 

I sincerely hope not.

[postersandstuff]

exactly......if its faux , its faux.....sticker or not

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

[Mr. Zipper]

On 4/9/2024 at 11:45 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

If the point is that TPAs make mistakes, "fakeautographs" is using a misleading example.

The seller "fakeautographs" is referring to is a Chinese seller who offers fakes with COUNTERFEIT Beckett stickers. Beckett is not certifying the fakes. Chinese knockoff slabs and stickers are a problem, but usually easily identifiable especially when coming from a Chinese seller with hundreds of items at 1/10th typical FMV. 

[Matt1982]

I appreciate and am glad CGC is offering this. It’s been too long that CBCS was the only game in town for verified sigs. They do it with baseballs, autographs and all kinds of collectibles. I’ll be happy with a yellow label that distinguishes between “Witnessed” and “Verified” sigs, and the market will determine the difference in value.