My Response 9 9

[esquirecomics]

Dave,

 

I have no dog in this fight so to speak. However, I'd like to point out something about the All-American #16. Although Steve's asking price may be outrageous, it is better than a VG. I graded it a solid 5.5 when I last viewed the book. 5.0 would be the strictest you could ever grade that copy.

 

The subscription crease is very light and not noticeable unless held up to the light at an angle.

 

I also examined that book in San Diego last year. It is a gorgeous copy, and was definitely better than the beautiful 4.5 copy I used to own. No comment on the price.

[esquirecomics]

Dave,

 

I have no dog in this fight so to speak. However, I'd like to point out something about the All-American #16. Although Steve's asking price may be outrageous, it is better than a VG. I graded it a solid 5.5 when I last viewed the book. 5.0 would be the strictest you could ever grade that copy.

 

The subscription crease is very light and not noticeable unless held up to the light at an angle.

 

I also examined that book in San Diego last year. It is a gorgeous copy, and was definitely better than the beautiful 4.5 copy I used to own. No comment on the price.

 

BTW, this was the original posted description of the book (which Steve got for a steal as far as I am concerned) and the accompanying images:

 

All American Comics #16 CA.Com FN- 5.5 ow (Jul 1940) Detroit Trolley

 

RARE Origin/1st Appearance of The Green Lantern by Sheldon Moldoff (c/a) & the beginning of this series. Green Lantern appears only on cover & one inside panel. Created by Martin Nodel. Inspired in 1940 by a switchman's green lantern that would give trains the go ahead to proceed, and how appropriate that this copy was originally purchased by a trip on the Detroit Trumble Trolley! Very beautiful solid copy, mostly clean, with freshly preserved pages and a few color flakes at top right margin; a tiny bindery tear at top of spine, semi tight staples, and two extremely light non color paper breaking creases. The first, a 6" f/c center crease, the second, a 3" faint top right corner crease, both of which unseen on this scan. The overall appearance gives it VF 8.0 eye appeal, thus despite it's defects, the FN- 5.5 grade. Any manipulation to this book will always be identifiable. But at this moment in time, a 66-year old restoration press free non-compromised classic!!!

 

 

[jkrk]

 

No, no, you are misinterpreting the focus of my rant. It was not directed at Dave, or either Steve (although I personally did find Steve F's comments against Steve C. unnecessary (though I understand why), I did not find them childish as they clearly were substantive and dealing with the general issue). I was reacting to the majority of other posts that were nothing but goof ball comments that served absolutely no substantive purpose whatsoever. Those posts are quite clearly identifiable and were, no surprise, made by many of the same people who virtually always follow the same path.

 

I wholeheartedly encourage forumites to openly share their experiences, whether positive or negative, with dealers or other forumites.

 

And, yes, to those who mentioned it, this is a "message board" though I fail to comprehend why that means adults should act like *spoon*. Of course, as you say, sometimes that makes the boards fun but such conduct should take place in appropriate threads. There are numerous light-hearted threads created in this section but this thread was certainly not one of them. But to each his own. I'll primarily stay in the GA section where this conduct rarely surfaces.

 

I'm really a small time collector compared to many on these boards. Most of my knowledge of the hobby comes from the boards. I was pleased to see Steve's comments regarding his opinion of the seller Dave Anderson. When I read Steve's post I was alerted to the risk of buying from Bigloo. I assume Steve was giving his honest viewpoint. I noted that others defended Steve's view as well. It's true I had a one sided view but I also was sure that Dave Anderson would become aware of the thread about him. If Dave felt the need to defend himself I would take his comments into consideration. I thought Dave did a great job. I also read supportive comments from Dave's supporters. What is the truth? I don't know. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I did learn (if I understood his post) that if I bought a raw book from him and felt the need to rush the book to CGC for restoration check/grading Dave would work with me. I will never get to the bottom of the He said, she said discussion but I believe Dave helped himself. After reading Dave's post I am still wondering why big collectors/dealers avoid this site fearing ridicule? I suspect he helped his cause.

 

I read through this thread and I took note of the serious comments and laughed at some of the banter. This is a message board and the nature of one's comments shouldn't be censored. Should threads start with OSP (only serious posts) in the heading so only serious comments are elligible? My view is that those who see a post that is very meaningful to us should focus on the key points and ignore

the extraneous material. As you say live and let live (or did i say that?).

[Monstro]

man you people talk in circles

[jkrk]

man you people talk in circles

 

Maybe it's because "All my Life's a circle" ??

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBM2PK1Ov4o

Edited December 20, 2006 by jkrk

[rob_allan]

Uh I skipped after page 13. Sorry if this seems unenlightened due to the fact, but I'm not all that concerned with alot of what happened here. None of my business as far as I'm concerned.

 

That said, there was mention a half-billion pages back that there wouldn't be a scan of the Action 1 because it's truly a rare book and only a few have seen it, etc. Just to clarify, are we saying this book is more valuable because nobody has seen it? Would a scan diminish that value? If so, are we all stupid enough to cause that to be true?

 

Obviously, he's not obligated to scan a book. I'm not even saying it SHOULD be scanned. (I think it should be scanned if the mood hits just like any other book.) But if we're saying this book is legendary because people aren't allowed to see it, I find the notion offensive. I can't believe I'm about to say this, but it's a comicbook. Not the Ark or something. Personally, I'd love to see a scan. But if I don't, whatever.

 

Now belatedly- welcome to the boards! I'm not convinced I'll ever have the opportunity to truly exchange words with you via these boards, but I've heard so much talk about the legendary books of "The Dentist," I have to say it's nice to know you're a real person that exists!

[ciorac]

is it any wonder mr. anderson doesn't stay on these boards.

 

I agree.

 

Not to isolate any one person, but anyone who wonders why so many major collectors and dealers stay away from these boards just needs to read above at the childish and/or unnecessary banter that was posted by some people. Not only does this thread address a very serious issue between two collectors that has now unfortunately taken a public turn before resolution, but the response by others certainly doesn't encourage new forumites who wish to discuss serious issues to join these boards.

 

 

A lot of childish banter does take place on these boards, sometimes that makes them fun. Other times, tedious.

 

But to be fair Mark, in the area of disclosure you should applaud forumites who share their honest experiences with dealers. If they are being dishonest, then shame on them. But if someone has a legitimate beef or problem with a dealer that was not resolved to their satisfaction, then what is wrong with sharing that information? Even if it is with someone of renown?

 

I had a bad experience with Dave, does that make him despicable? No. Was it a crappy deal? Yes. Would I buy from him again? With caution, extreme caution.

 

As far as Steve Fishler is concerned, I may take issue with his grading sometimes (as I do with most people because I am harsh), but he is a very honest, forthright guy. In my dealings with him, that go back many years, he has always been straightforward with me, and stepped up to the plate to make things right when he didn't have to.

 

Not that he needs me to defend him, but if he did, I would.

 

My

 

No, no, you are misinterpreting the focus of my rant. It was not directed at Dave, or either Steve (although I personally did find Steve F's comments against Steve C. unnecessary (though I understand why), I did not find them childish as they clearly were substantive and dealing with the general issue). I was reacting to the majority of other posts that were nothing but goof ball comments that served absolutely no substantive purpose whatsoever. Those posts are quite clearly identifiable and were, no surprise, made by many of the same people who virtually always follow the same path.

 

I wholeheartedly encourage forumites to openly share their experiences, whether positive or negative, with dealers or other forumites.

 

And, yes, to those who mentioned it, this is a "message board" though I fail to comprehend why that means adults should act like *spoon*. Of course, as you say, sometimes that makes the boards fun but such conduct should take place in appropriate threads. There are numerous light-hearted threads created in this section but this thread was certainly not one of them. But to each his own. I'll primarily stay in the GA section where this conduct rarely surfaces.

 

Thanks for the clarification Mark. We are in complete agreement.

[VintageComics]

This place is a joke. And it is that way because of the way some things are treated. We have several respectful posts (whether factual or not is up to the reader) by prominant members of the collecting community (one of which probably has several of the most desirable comics on the planet) and the thread is grenaded by a bunch of *spoon* who are looking to get a snicker from a few readers. We drool over these guys' books, wish we could see them and know more about them, and then humiliate them when they come on over. Like hell someone of any REAL importance would want to voice their opinion here. I just got through about half the pages in this thread and got disgusted. I do my fair of joking on here, but I think we way overstepped the line. Take this as you will. I don't give a *spoon*. It just deepens my resolve to stay away from this place.

R.

[Monstro]

well i don't plan on staying away, but i do agree with what you said. since i have been on here i have read so many posts about this guy and his books. everyone saying they wish he would post his action 1, people wanting to ask him questions about it, but the consensus was he will never show up. then finally he does...albeit not for the best of reasons but because he felt he had to defend himself. so he comes on here writes a well thought out post. (weather any of it is true or not on either side i have no idea). and in response he gets 10 pages of gremlins. and don't get me wrong, i love the gremlins. their funny as sheit sometimes. but man any chance of engaging the dude into some conversation about some of the sweetest books out there was wasted.

that’s all i'm saying. and yea i don't give a sheit what anyone thinks either, it was just lame.

[TiQuinn]

This place is a joke. And it is that way because of the way some things are treated. We have several respectful posts (whether factual or not is up to the reader) by prominant members of the collecting community (one of which probably has several of the most desirable comics on the planet) and the thread is grenaded by a bunch of *spoon* who are looking to get a snicker from a few readers. We drool over these guys' books, wish we could see them and know more about them, and then humiliate them when they come on over. Like hell someone of any REAL importance would want to voice their opinion here. I just got through about half the pages in this thread and got disgusted. I do my fair of joking on here, but I think we way overstepped the line. Take this as you will. I don't give a *spoon*. It just deepens my resolve to stay away from this place.

R.

 

I have to call BS on this.

 

Dave Anderson came over to respond to some posts made by Steve Carey, and in doing so, escalated what should've been a private discussion. Not to be a part of the community. Not to answer questions about the Action #1, nor to post a pic. Both Dave and Steve may have some fantastic books, but this alone doesn't put them on a pedestal, especially since their primary contribution so far has been an argumentative thread about each other's grading, pricing, and personality. The majority of regular posters welcomed Dave despite his initial post and its intent, and have been respectful. Now, your definition of respectful might be different than mine. Mine doesn't include people prostrating themselves because they are the owners of several books that we might wish we had. All Steve and Dave have done is shown that they are tempermental dealers in this industry.

[Jeffro.]

Oh good.

More pointless *spoon*ing drama that would have been more appropriately conducted through email or PM.

 

Not directed at you TiQuinn Love your Oddball avatar, btw

[VintageComics]

This place is a joke. And it is that way because of the way some things are treated. We have several respectful posts (whether factual or not is up to the reader) by prominant members of the collecting community (one of which probably has several of the most desirable comics on the planet) and the thread is grenaded by a bunch of *spoon* who are looking to get a snicker from a few readers. We drool over these guys' books, wish we could see them and know more about them, and then humiliate them when they come on over. Like hell someone of any REAL importance would want to voice their opinion here. I just got through about half the pages in this thread and got disgusted. I do my fair of joking on here, but I think we way overstepped the line. Take this as you will. I don't give a *spoon*. It just deepens my resolve to stay away from this place.

R.

 

I have to call BS on this.

 

Dave Anderson came over to respond to some posts made by Steve Carey, and in doing so, escalated what should've been a private discussion. Not to be a part of the community. Not to answer questions about the Action #1, nor to post a pic. Both Dave and Steve may have some fantastic books, but this alone doesn't put them on a pedestal, especially since their primary contribution so far has been an argumentative thread about each other's grading, pricing, and personality. The majority of regular posters welcomed Dave despite his initial post and its intent, and have been respectful. Now, your definition of respectful might be different than mine. Mine doesn't include people prostrating themselves because they are the owners of several books that we might wish we had. All Steve and Dave have done is shown that they are tempermental dealers in this industry.

 

You can call all you want. I'm not putting the man on a pedestal. Everyone on here is dying to have guys like this on the boards but many of these people don't have the couth to properly welcome somone. The guy writes a large 1st post in response to what has now become a public debate, and you see posts like this on the first pages to welcome the guy:

 

ughhh try some paragraph breaks

 

 

Not often you get to see BSDs airing their dirty laundry.

 

I stopped here, can anyone paraphrase

 

Now I like most of the people on these boards, and interact with them often but i got irritated reading this thread. I don't want to pizz anyone off, but I'm entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. I think that when a knowledgable member arrives on these boards, he / she is sometimes treated with less respect than most shills. Don Rosa's brief appearance here comes to mind.

[Jeffro.]

You can call all you want. I'm not putting the man on a pedestal. Everyone on here is dying to have guys like this on the boards but many of these people don't have the couth to properly welcome somone. The guy writes a large 1st post in response to what has now become a public debate, and you see posts like this on the first pages to welcome the guy:

 

ughhh try some paragraph breaks

 

With respects to everyone, I have to agree. Over on the WTB forum, one guy is looking for high grade Superman's from 1-300. Check out some of the negative responses there?

 

What is so hard about being civil to people? Oh wait, this is the internet. Silly me.

[TiQuinn]

You can call all you want. I'm not putting the man on a pedestal. Everyone on here is dying to have guys like this on the boards but many of these people don't have the couth to properly welcome somone. The guy writes a large 1st post in response to what has now become a public debate, and you see posts like this on the first pages to welcome the guy:

 

ughhh try some paragraph breaks

 

 

Not often you get to see BSDs airing their dirty laundry.

 

I stopped here, can anyone paraphrase

 

Now I like most of the people on these boards, and interact with them often but i got irritated reading this thread. I don't want to pizz anyone off, but I'm entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. I think that when a knowledgable member arrives on these boards, he / she is sometimes treated with less respect than most shills. Don Rosa's brief appearance here comes to mind.

 

Fair enough.

 

I think there's a lot of worthwhile posters on this board, and because it's a community, everyone will bring their own personalities to the board, for good and for bad.

[VintageComics]

You can call all you want. I'm not putting the man on a pedestal. Everyone on here is dying to have guys like this on the boards but many of these people don't have the couth to properly welcome somone. The guy writes a large 1st post in response to what has now become a public debate, and you see posts like this on the first pages to welcome the guy:

 

ughhh try some paragraph breaks

 

With respects to everyone, I have to agree. Over on the WTB forum, one guy is looking for high grade Superman's from 1-300. Check out some of the negative responses there?

 

What is so hard about being civil to people? Oh wait, this is the internet. Silly me.

 

That's what I'm talking about. You don't unleash your inside jokes, innuendo, dirty jokes on someone new. Imagine acting like that at a department store or library or whatever with someone you have met for the first time. Now, greggy on the other hand, he deserves a good kick in the floppy saggies once in a while.

But that's just my opinion.

[The Black Hand ®]

Dave,

 

I have no dog in this fight so to speak. However, I'd like to point out something about the All-American #16. Although Steve's asking price may be outrageous, it is better than a VG. I graded it a solid 5.5 when I last viewed the book. 5.0 would be the strictest you could ever grade that copy.

 

The subscription crease is very light and not noticeable unless held up to the light at an angle.

 

I also examined that book in San Diego last year. It is a gorgeous copy, and was definitely better than the beautiful 4.5 copy I used to own. No comment on the price.

 

BTW, this was the original posted description of the book (which Steve got for a steal as far as I am concerned) and the accompanying images:

 

All American Comics #16 CA.Com FN- 5.5 ow (Jul 1940) Detroit Trolley

 

RARE Origin/1st Appearance of The Green Lantern by Sheldon Moldoff (c/a) & the beginning of this series. Green Lantern appears only on cover & one inside panel. Created by Martin Nodel. Inspired in 1940 by a switchman's green lantern that would give trains the go ahead to proceed, and how appropriate that this copy was originally purchased by a trip on the Detroit Trumble Trolley! Very beautiful solid copy, mostly clean, with freshly preserved pages and a few color flakes at top right margin; a tiny bindery tear at top of spine, semi tight staples, and two extremely light non color paper breaking creases. The first, a 6" f/c center crease, the second, a 3" faint top right corner crease, both of which unseen on this scan. The overall appearance gives it VF 8.0 eye appeal, thus despite it's defects, the FN- 5.5 grade. Any manipulation to this book will always be identifiable. But at this moment in time, a 66-year old restoration press free non-compromised classic!!!

 

 

 

That's a nice looking All American 16, looks like a solid 5.5 or better to me. The way I read metropolisent's description of it on page 5 of this thread I would have thought it was a lot less desirable. I remember selling a book to a guy years ago who insisted it was a g/vg and quite common. I later saw it on ebay hyped as a rare vg++.Go figurel, Anyway, that's a nice looking copy of a truly rare book.That is Sacentaur's copy, right? As to what it's worth? I guess the market will have to decide that, but I've seen some pretty big asking prices on a lot less appealing books. Boy those are nice colors

Edited December 20, 2006 by The_Black_Hand

[whetteon]

I actually thought this thread was civil, respectful and sometimes humorous. These are HUGE leaps and bounds over the usual mob mentality, conspiracy theories and *spoon* slinging most post of this serious nature finds themselves apart of.

 

So do you expect a college speech type discussion where the guest speaker stands in front of a large auditorium and field’s questions from the audience? Are we supposed to be humble and bow down to anyone in this industry with more valuable goodies then we currently possess? If someone says they've been comic fans for the last 50 years, does that ultimately mean they are the most knowledgeable person on this board?

 

I'm honestly confused to the nature of r1970d post. If these "big" named people are scared of these boards then they won’t post despite how many tea parties we throw in their honor. If these "big" name people are as knowledgeable as everyone thinks they are then let them come and earn our respect like Dave and Steve just did (well at least for me they did. Although there was a disagreement, both parties managed to stay civil despite some hostile feelings between the two).

 

What frustrates me the most are these posters who tell us how we should act? If we post a funny response then that’s the reason no one of importance comes to these boards. If we get pissed and start a mob mentality than that's the reason no one of importance comes to these boards. And if we choose to ignore the thread then we aren't giving it the respect it deserves and that the reason no one of importance comes to these boards.

 

What I find the most amusing is that we just created more drama in this thread then either of the original posters did because some people feel the need to tell us how childish we all are and therefore no one of importance while ever comes to these boards.

Edited December 20, 2006 by whet

[Jeffro.]

What frustrates me the most are these posters who tell us how we should act? If we post a funny response then that’s the reason no one of importance comes to these boards. If we get pissed and start a mob mentality than that's the reason no one of importance comes to these boards. And if we choose to ignore the thread then we aren't giving it the respect it deserves and that the reason no one of importance comes to these boards.

 

What I find the most amusing is that we just created more drama in this thread then either of the original posters did because some people feel the need to tell us how childish we all are and therefore no one of importance while ever comes to these boards.

 

I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but all I'm saying is be polite to people. Is that so wrong?

[sacentaur]

All Steve and Dave have done is shown that they are tempermental dealers in this industry.

 

One correction TiQuinn, if I may.

 

Dave is indeed a Big Name dealer ($200,000 in recent ebay sales by his own admission in his first post...very impressive!), but I am a private collector.

 

That is, until Stephen Fishler can back up his posted allegation that I am a "dealer".

 

Fishler has been asked to list the books I've sold in 2006. Curiously, he has not.

 

OK, let's give the poor fellow a helping hand...please just reference the comics I've sold - ever - via ebay. Oh wait he can't, because there are none.

 

Why don't we make it easy so he won't be confused any more...please simply direct us to a dealer's website that I maintain. Hold on - he won't be able to because no such site exists.

 

Oh my, is he still struggling? Well, as America's #1 Comic Book dealer surely you have the contacts to find out with whom I surreptitiously consign all my books through. I'll save you the trouble, there are none.

 

We're all still anxiously waiting for your response, Stephen. But I expect some jocularity instead - throw a brick, tell a joke. Hey, it's worked for you in the past, eh?

 

STEVE

[nik]

Now what fun would that be