Baker Romance 43 43

[BakerFanOne]

As the debate rages on who is responsible for the PL 17 cover, I would vote this as a Kamen cover. Her right hand is too crudely drawn to be Baker and the face exhibits none of the stylistic elements of any of his prior periods/phases of work.   I also don't recall Baker drawing too many covers (if any) with cleavage/headights to this extent. He tried to be more realistic albeit with a lot of admiration for the female form.  Kamen on the other hand drew many exaggerated women in bondage and did not have the free flowing elegance of the Baker women. 

[comicnoir]

I have said this before, artists work with art directors. These art directors have input into how the drawing is, ahem, shaped. An art director will come along, look at a drawing in progress and make changes. More boobage.

[plady69]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:57 PM, comicnoir said:

I have said this before, artists work with art directors. These art directors have input into how the drawing is, ahem, shaped. An art director will come along, look at a drawing in progress and make changes. More boobage.

Thank you Mr. Art Director! 😜

[manetteska]

On 7/16/2022 at 8:58 PM, manetteska said:

Are the majority of the HA comics from a single consignor?

Surprised there is no Canteen 1. 

These tracking bids are taunting me. I know they will never sell for close to the current amount. 

[Chief1332]

On 7/18/2022 at 9:00 AM, manetteska said:

These tracking bids are taunting me. I know they will never sell for close to the current amount. 

This auction should have occurred on July 4th since the fireworks will be tremendous.

[BakerFanOne]

On 7/17/2022 at 10:57 PM, comicnoir said:

I have said this before, artists work with art directors. These art directors have input into how the drawing is, ahem, shaped. An art director will come along, look at a drawing in progress and make changes. More boobage.

Very fair point.  Perhaps we can all agree that likely multiple folks (Kamen, Baker, and possibly others) had a hand in this iconic cover.  And that although this may not be classic Baker, this is certainly a classic cover.

[Changer]

On 7/18/2022 at 8:57 AM, szav said:

To me PL 17is far more notable for its association with Seduction of the Innocent than for it supposedly being a Baker cover anyway.  If it were somehow proven to be another artist’s work, I don’t think it would lose much of its luster.

agreed, as far as Baker , who knows but I feel like her hands,face, breasts and hair are off from typical of his work. 

 

[BakerFanOne]

If you look at Seven Seas 4 and 5, it looks like Baker did 4 and Kamen did 5 although both are listed as Baker.

[PeterPark]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:02 PM, BakerFanOne said:

If you look at Seven Seas 4 and 5, it looks like Baker did 4 and Kamen did 5 although both are listed as Baker.

Those guys in the back look like Baker though, right? And her fingers are grouped in the middle, as Baker often placed them. I also notice her foot is not flat at the end but the big toe leads, which Kamen avoided drawing in the first place. There is also more detail in the background, which says Baker to me as well. I would vote Baker, despite the unusual face angle.

[BakerFanOne]

On 7/18/2022 at 10:46 AM, PeterPark said:

Those guys in the back look like Baker though, right? And her fingers are grouped in the middle, as Baker often placed them. I also notice her foot is not flat at the end but the big toe leads, which Kamen avoided drawing in the first place. There is also more detail in the background, which says Baker to me as well. I would vote Baker, despite the unusual face angle.

This Rulah cover is listed as Kamen and the face looks very similar to Seven Seas 5.  There is a stiffness of motion in this Seven Seas 5 that is common to Kamen (Saint 1, Claire Voyant 3, Zoot 11), but not common to Baker (APC 6, Seven Seas 4 and 6.  But always possible Baker made some contributions to Seven Seas 5.  

[rjpb]

The difference in artistic execution between the cover of SS #5 and that Rulah cover is a strong argument for SS #5 being by Baker. 

I realize that some stylistic similarities between Kamen and earlier Baker can lead to debate as to which one (or someone else) did some covers, but I have to say SS#5 doesn't look anything like Kamen to me.

[rjpb]

On 7/15/2022 at 8:14 PM, 10centcomics said:

Funny, I thought it went for a steal but maybe I am biased because I won the book

In all seriousness, this was never going to go for 500 to 1K. A beat-up copy of this book sold on Heritage twenty-one years ago in 2001 for 1K. The CT and grade don't matter for a book like this with 15 copies on the census. It's all about eye appeal and jumping on any copy that comes to market. It's an infamous Baker cover, ultra-rare, and it's currently listed as #1 on the most valuable romance comics in Overstreet (granted that list is kinda whack). I expect the 5.0 in the Baker Auction to go for $$$$. 

I sold a raw 2.0 for something like $1300 back in 2008 or 2009, and I recall folks asking $2K for copies not much better back then, so given the typical multiples anything in demand has seen since then, I was not surprised at the price. 

[rjpb]

On 7/17/2022 at 7:57 PM, comicnoir said:

There's a lot of Mitzi in that Cow Puncher. You may be onto something.

Or maybe Ulmer was swiping from a Baker Mitzi piece? 

[Changer]

On 7/18/2022 at 10:46 AM, PeterPark said:

Those guys in the back look like Baker though, right? And her fingers are grouped in the middle, as Baker often placed them. I also notice her foot is not flat at the end but the big toe leads, which Kamen avoided drawing in the first place. There is also more detail in the background, which says Baker to me as well. I would vote Baker, despite the unusual face angle.

I think the composition and legs are very Baker like, face is a little harsh? so maybe Baker Pencils, inked by someone else? 

[BakerFanOne]

On 7/18/2022 at 11:16 AM, rjpb said:

Or maybe Ulmer was swiping from a Baker Mitzi piece? 

Anything is possible.  I just think it's fun to conjecture as we may never have a definitive answer.  

[BakerFanOne]

On 7/18/2022 at 11:58 AM, Changer said:

I think the composition and legs are very Baker like, face is a little harsh? so maybe Baker Pencils, inked by someone else? 

It's funny because the legs do remind me of the Crime Reporter and Authentic Police Cases 6 legs.  As we know, an inker can make a tremendous difference so that is also an explanation.  

[Funnybooks]

On 7/18/2022 at 2:58 PM, Changer said:

I think the composition and legs are very Baker like, face is a little harsh? so maybe Baker Pencils, inked by someone else? 

probably Colletta...he mucked up everything he inked 

[Point Five]

Re the Seven Seas #5, the woman's body and body language feel Baker-ish to me, but her head and neck look like they were drawn by someone else. It's perhaps a clue the way she is squeezed in under the Seven Seas logo... one possible scenario is that the woman had full Baker pencils but her head was going to crash into the logo even more if inked as it was pencilled, so someone kind of hastily redrew those areas to work (passably) with the logo. I'd love to see the original art for this cover.

 

[comicnoir]

On 7/18/2022 at 5:07 PM, Point Five said:

Re the Seven Seas #5, the woman's body and body language feel Baker-ish to me, but her head and neck look like they were drawn by someone else. It's perhaps a clue the way she is squeezed in under the Seven Seas logo... one possible scenario is that the woman had full Baker pencils but her head was going to crash into the logo even more if inked as it was pencilled, so someone kind of hastily redrew those areas to work (passably) with the logo. I'd love to see the original art for this cover.

 

It's on the Ha archives. They sold the original art years ago. 

[Point Five]

On 7/18/2022 at 5:36 PM, comicnoir said:

It's on the Ha archives. They sold the original art years ago. 

Thanks Ron! Introduced into evidence:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/matt-baker-seven-seas-comics-5-cover-original-art-universal-phoenix-features-1947-/a/7204-91004.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515#

This kind of steps on my theory, as it looks like the same hand drew all of the woman, both head and body. I don't see any heavy paste-ups in that area.

Hate to say it, but stripped of the lush coloring the artwork does not look conclusively Bakerish to me. That doesn't mean he couldn't have done the pencils under someone else's inking... but I'm not seeing a lot that is distinctively his.