Wrong printing discovered in Returned PGX Graded Book- Do I have legal options?

[conditionfreak]

You've never read a book more than once, even if you haven't read it for several years? I do it all the time. And again, where does he say that he continues to send books to PGX for grading. The books we are discussing were all sent to PGX years ago.

 

Also, I believe he would have less legal repurcussions (sp?) if he were to have simply sold the book in it's slab as a first print. His arguement could simply have been that it was a certified first print from a comic grading company. The burden of proof would then fall on the shoulders of the new owner, who would have to have cracked the book out of the slab to realize otherwise. Then they would have to prove that it was the book that was originally in the slab to begin with. The scenario of trying to scam PGX for a profit simply doesn't make sense given the hassle it's going to involve and the relatively small amount of profit he would stand to gain from it.

 

No, I do not recall having ever read a book the second time. It is like watching a movie for the second time. Makes no sense to me. I know that many do it, but I do not. Why would one? Unless looking for an answer to a question or a particular wording that you want to quote? I can not even get to reading anywhere near the books that I have never read, why on earth would I re-read something I had already read? My favorite book of all time (not a comic book) is Uncle Tom's Cabin. One of the best books ever written. But I would not ever consider reading it again. My favorite comic books of all time are FF 25 and 26, DD 7 and FF 48 thru 50, but to go back and re read them, even though it has been over forty years or so since those readings? Nope.

 

That's just silly

 

But, I digress.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

I've seen the video, for those who haven't, here's a screen capture:

 

 

Hey Christian, don't think Dan really wanted it out there what the book was!

 

I edited my post, edit yours also if you want.

 

The book was linked to a dozen or so pages ago.

[Domo Arigato]

No, I do not recall having ever read a book the second time. It is like watching a movie for the second time. Makes no sense to me. I know that many do it, but I do not. Why would one? Unless looking for an answer to a question or a particular wording that you want to quote? I can not even get to reading anywhere near the books that I have never read, why on earth would I re-read something I had already read? My favorite book of all time (not a comic book) is Uncle Tom's Cabin. One of the best books ever written. But I would not ever consider reading it again. My favorite comic books of all time are FF 25 and 26, DD 7 and FF 48 thru 50, but to go back and re read them, even though it has been over forty years or so since those readings? Nope.

 

That's just silly

 

But, I digress.

 

I also watch some movies more than once.

 

But I gues that just goes to show that we all collect and enjoy our hobby differently. By the way, I've never read FF 25, 26, 48, 49, and 50. So, if you're done with them...

[Domo Arigato]

I edited my post, edit yours also if you want.

 

The book was linked to a dozen or so pages ago.

Yep. It's common knowledge at this point.

[comics-rock]

I edited my post, edit yours also if you want.

 

The book was linked to a dozen or so pages ago.

Yep. It's common knowledge at this point.

 

there ya go then....as long as no one says it out loud....sshhhhh

[Smokinghawk]

I've seen the video, for those who haven't, here's a screen capture:

 

 

Hey Christian, don't think Dan really wanted it out there what the book was!

 

 

As soon as the controversy about high-dollar first/third printings came up at the start, I suspected it was this book. And I'm not CLOSE to the expert that other forumites here are. So it's not exactly a giveaway to post this pic.

[comics-rock]

I've seen the video, for those who haven't, here's a screen capture:

 

 

Hey Christian, don't think Dan really wanted it out there what the book was!

 

 

As soon as the controversy about high-dollar first/third printings came up at the start, I suspected it was this book. And I'm not CLOSE to the expert that other forumites here are. So it's not exactly a giveaway to post this pic.

 

totally agree, but lets keep it to ourselves anyways....dosen't help Dan's case....but it makes his point a bit more valid

[BlowUpTheMoon]

I've seen the video, for those who haven't, here's a screen capture:

 

Hey Christian, don't think Dan really wanted it out there what the book was!

 

 

As soon as the controversy about high-dollar first/third printings came up at the start, I suspected it was this book. And I'm not CLOSE to the expert that other forumites here are. So it's not exactly a giveaway to post this pic.

 

totally agree, but lets keep it to ourselves anyways....dosen't help Dan's case....but it makes his point a bit more valid

 

Well, if you don't think the book should be posted, edit the book outta your posts.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Who cares? If the OP didn't want the book to come to light...they should have refrained from starting this thread in the 1st place.

[comics-rock]

I've seen the video, for those who haven't, here's a screen capture:

 

Hey Christian, don't think Dan really wanted it out there what the book was!

 

 

As soon as the controversy about high-dollar first/third printings came up at the start, I suspected it was this book. And I'm not CLOSE to the expert that other forumites here are. So it's not exactly a giveaway to post this pic.

 

totally agree, but lets keep it to ourselves anyways....dosen't help Dan's case....but it makes his point a bit more valid

 

Well, if you don't think the book should be posted, edit the book outta your posts.

 

Chris, think everyone knows now anyways...and a good portion probably knew before hand. I'm not havin a go at you buddy.

[comics-rock]

Who cares? If the OP didn't want the book to come to light...they should have refrained from starting this thread in the 1st place.

 

yeah, not so much the thread itself, but perhaps the cryptic 1st pint 3rd print clue......

[conditionfreak]

No, I do not recall having ever read a book the second time. It is like watching a movie for the second time. Makes no sense to me. I know that many do it, but I do not. Why would one? Unless looking for an answer to a question or a particular wording that you want to quote? I can not even get to reading anywhere near the books that I have never read, why on earth would I re-read something I had already read? My favorite book of all time (not a comic book) is Uncle Tom's Cabin. One of the best books ever written. But I would not ever consider reading it again. My favorite comic books of all time are FF 25 and 26, DD 7 and FF 48 thru 50, but to go back and re read them, even though it has been over forty years or so since those readings? Nope.

 

That's just silly

 

But, I digress.

 

I also watch some movies more than once.

 

But I gues that just goes to show that we all collect and enjoy our hobby differently. By the way, I've never read FF 25, 26, 48, 49, and 50. So, if you're done with them...

 

Maybe I could post scans of each and every story page from, let's say FF 25, for all to enjoy. I wonder if that would be some kind of copyright infringement? Those with older books could do that once a week or so, if it was okay and not a legal problem. Anyone know the answer? Some might like to read "Not Brand Echh" #1 or other books that are probably not reprinted anywhere else.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Who cares? If the OP didn't want the book to come to light...they should have refrained from starting this thread in the 1st place.

 

yeah, not so much the thread itself, but perhaps the cryptic 1st pint 3rd print clue......

 

Yeah, after I viewed the video, I think I dropped enough clues as to the identity of the book without actually naming it.

 

Anyway, I just rewatched the video and can say 100% there was no switcheroo going on with the book as it came out of the slab and was inspected - stationary camera.

[KingOfRulers]

so none of you even know anything about him.

 

 

Finally we have come to the crux of the matter...we know diddly about MagicDan yet we are supposed to buy his story hook, line and sinker...I don't think so...

 

Just because PGX is a notoriously krappy business does not mean that, by default, MagicDan is correct in his claims...

 

 

Whether he is correct or not, he does not deserve ridicule at this point.

 

 

Sometimes that is just a way to weed out the truth...

 

Well, then that speaks volumes right there. Fundamental differences. I don't agree with that, and will never agree with that.

 

What grade would you give the Ultimate Spider Man #2?

Did you buy it directly from the seller that described the damage as post slab, and posted the photo of the crack by the staple, or from someone else?

 

I sell certified books at the certified grade whether I agree with the grade or not. I disagree with CGC in high grade quite often, but whether it be in my favor or not I sell what it is. My personal grade is a 9.4--but nobody cares what my grades are, that's why I send books in to be certified. I bought the book from that seller. I put it in my eBay store with a disclaimer that I disagree with the grade. Sounds just fine to me.

 

That's not the answer I was hoping to hear.

It might be semantics to you, but what you said is.." *In my opinion this book was overgraded."

When you don't disclose everything that you're aware of, it leaves you wide open to speculation that you are just covering your butt for when a buyer gets the book and says" WTF? There's damage to the spine that makes this book about a 9.0??"

It's not trimming or color touch, but it's pretty weak.

 

Like I said before, I DO think it was just an overgraded book. I am not responsible for CGC's assesment.

 

That's why I brought up semantics before. In MHO, the least you should do now is state "In my opinion this book is now overgraded." Maybe kick up the font a bit too. I don't think it's reasonable to believe CGC F'd up this badly on grading.

 

Then you haven't submitted "high grade" books in high quantity. I have seen several 9.8 books that look substantially worse. It is very reasonable to believe. CGC makes errors in grading just like everyone else does.

[KingOfRulers]

The conscious decision to express my own assesment is neglectful? You really are batty. I don't think it is post-slab damage. I examined the book carefully, and don't see how the damage would be post-slabbing damage. I think it was just an overgraded book.

 

"I don't think..." was the same rational that guy in the restored Action #1 thread used. It doesn't negate the facts that it was sold to you with with the knowledge of slab damage and you have decided to ignore that fact upon flipping. Actionboy was wrong then and you're wrong now...

 

Jim

 

And I reply by saying, "I'm not wrong now". That was easy.

[KingOfRulers]

If the damaged happened in the slab, why wouldn't the original owner return the book to CGC and say, "Look-it, my book got damaged in the slab."

 

Irrelevant.

 

The original seller sold it with full disclosure and close up photos of the damage. His choice.

 

The buyer then attempted to sell it on without. Also his choice.

 

Just wondering whether this choice qualifies as 'underhanded', as this was the word being casually bandied about last night?

I wasn't necessarily asking within the context of the situation here. Just in general.

 

I do agree with you here as I saw the original post where the book was sold and the damage highlighted.

 

Was it an underhanded act to sell the book without the same level of disclosure? Well, underhanded might be a strong word. I would call it neglectful.

 

I would call it neither. I didn't "have" to say anything with regard to my opinion on the book. Like I said before, if anyone detests the disclaimer, you can be a true comic industry crusader and save some buyer from falling into some apparent trap I have created...by buying the book yourself and selling it with whatever disclaimer you please.

 

I'd say the Flaming guy should buy it because he likes to be the crazed, "look at me" attention-whore crusader whenever possible.

Stephen,

 

If that's the attitude you want to take, then that's fine. You are an adult and can make your own choices. Just like the rest of us. We can chose who we want to continue to do business with and who we don't. It's regrettable. If the shoe were on the other foot, we would be seeing a, "Look what this tool sold me!" thread in Comics General.

 

Good luck with your future business,

 

Jim

 

No, I wouldn't. If I bought a certified book that someone gave a distinct disclaimer about it being overgraded, I wouldn't be angry if it were in my opinion overgraded.

[gcstomp]

Stephen,

Lighter note, read your auction description and you mention a book you are working on, with among other things how to id pedigrees. Sounds good, I would love to see an advance snipet on that work.

 

Also, I see you and Bill share same email address based on that auction description, or am I confused?

 

 

[KingOfRulers]

I finished the manuscript of the book and sought out publishing without much luck. It is pretty expensive and with it being such a niche market, I didn't put the money into doing it yet.

 

Bill and I, used to be business partners in Astonishing Comics. I still use the same email as I did then though. Bill uses a different email in his auctions.

[gcstomp]

The book would be great, but talk about a niche market, we are talking about a target audience of maybe what, 1000 people in the entire planet that are really interested in pedigrees.

 

This is a slap that Bill gave to me at a show, where I briefly had a notion of a standard commercial Wombat, just a pop up type display rack that breaks down into a ski bag. I thought how cool would that be?

 

"How big do you thing target audience is for that, maybe 800, 1000 tops". He was right of course, the reason every show has all kinds of different display racks is because we are in a tiny speck of an industry where it is just not worth a mass manufacture of a standard pro display rack.

 

Pedigree books is similar tiny audience, but on bright side you would have a high potential price point of such a book, as whether it was cover price $10 or $50 you would sell same number of copies to the hard core audience.

 

But I digress, I get the same way when talking about pancakes.

 

 

[the_Greatest]

so none of you even know anything about him.

 

 

Finally we have come to the crux of the matter...we know diddly about MagicDan yet we are supposed to buy his story hook, line and sinker...I don't think so...

 

Just because PGX is a notoriously krappy business does not mean that, by default, MagicDan is correct in his claims...

 

 

Whether he is correct or not, he does not deserve ridicule at this point.

 

 

Sometimes that is just a way to weed out the truth...

 

Well, then that speaks volumes right there. Fundamental differences. I don't agree with that, and will never agree with that.

 

What grade would you give the Ultimate Spider Man #2?

Did you buy it directly from the seller that described the damage as post slab, and posted the photo of the crack by the staple, or from someone else?

 

I sell certified books at the certified grade whether I agree with the grade or not. I disagree with CGC in high grade quite often, but whether it be in my favor or not I sell what it is. My personal grade is a 9.4--but nobody cares what my grades are, that's why I send books in to be certified. I bought the book from that seller. I put it in my eBay store with a disclaimer that I disagree with the grade. Sounds just fine to me.

 

That's not the answer I was hoping to hear.

It might be semantics to you, but what you said is.." *In my opinion this book was overgraded."

When you don't disclose everything that you're aware of, it leaves you wide open to speculation that you are just covering your butt for when a buyer gets the book and says" WTF? There's damage to the spine that makes this book about a 9.0??"

It's not trimming or color touch, but it's pretty weak.

 

Like I said before, I DO think it was just an overgraded book. I am not responsible for CGC's assesment.

 

That's why I brought up semantics before. In MHO, the least you should do now is state "In my opinion this book is now overgraded." Maybe kick up the font a bit too. I don't think it's reasonable to believe CGC F'd up this badly on grading.

 

Then you haven't submitted "high grade" books in high quantity. I have seen several 9.8 books that look substantially worse. It is very reasonable to believe. CGC makes errors in grading just like everyone else does.

 

You must use that disclaimer quite a bit then.