Wrong printing discovered in Returned PGX Graded Book- Do I have legal options?

[Paratrooper]

What gave you the foreknowledge to want to use a video camera while opening the PGX slab? I know most people would just have opened it and sent it in to CGC, or gave permission for CGC to crack the slab.

[MagicDan1-migration]

Did you scan the book prior to submission?

 

Sadly enough, no.

PGX was my first experience with a third-party-grader. And even though I now document everything, it wasn't in my practice on those first submissions. Since then, I began selling my books on the internet and discovered the importance of being as transparent as I could with customers. I began taking stills until I upgraded to a better camera last year. Now I scan all my books before submitting them to CGC and I video document any submissions I open.

[DiceX]

I'm the last person in the world that would defend PGX, so take this as you will.

 

My guess is that you sent a 3rd print in to PGX claiming that it was a 1st print. PGX, being the "experts" that they are, took you at your word and labeled it "1st Print".

 

You get the book back, and seeing that you fooled them, decide to video tape yourself opening the book, to reveal the 3rd print you knew was in there. Just to be able to pull some puzzy lawsuit scam on them to get them to pony up some money.

 

That's the only explanation as to why you *video taped* yourself opening the book. You KNEW you were trying to screw them.

 

I can't believe it, but I'm on PGX's side this time. The only thing they're guilty of is being dumbazzez, and that's nothing new. That's been proven many times before.

 

 

 

[MagicDan1-migration]

What gave you the foreknowledge to want to use a video camera while opening the PGX slab? I know most people would just have opened it and sent it in to CGC, or gave permission for CGC to crack the slab.

 

First off, I video all slab openings. Next, I didn't know that CGC would take a PGX slabbed books insitu until after the fact. I thought if grading company's were stand-offish about slicing comics from sealed poly-bags why would they accept a slabbed book from the competition (no less).

Since this incident, however, I've spoken to CGC (William) about this situation. How would they have handled this problem and the books I've on my mind to submit to them. And yes, William wishes I could have sent the book to them instead of opening it myself. But even if I knew I could submit this book to CGC in its PGX case, I would have opened it if only to touch it, read it and go through the pages again remembering the Comic-Con I got it from.

[THE_BEYONDER]

What gave you the foreknowledge to want to use a video camera while opening the PGX slab? I know most people would just have opened it and sent it in to CGC, or gave permission for CGC to crack the slab.

 

First off, I video all slab openings. Next, I didn't know that CGC would take a PGX slabbed books insitu until after the fact. I thought if grading company's were stand-offish about slicing comics from sealed poly-bags why would they accept a slabbed book from the competition (no less).

Since this incident, however, I've spoken to CGC (William) about this situation. How would they have handled this problem and the books I've on my mind to submit to them. And yes, William wishes I could have sent the book to them instead of opening it myself. But even if I knew I could submit this book to CGC in its PGX case, I would have opened it if only to touch it, read it and go through the pages again remembering the Comic-Con I got it from.

 

I'm confused. Why submit the book if you want to touch it, read it and go through the pages........?

[conditionfreak]

I am skeptical. Even with PGX's reputation being what it is, this just doesn't pass the smell test.

 

If I took my best educated guess, I would "guess" that the book was submitted with the designation of being a 1st print, either because the owner (1) did not know what printing it was, or (2) did know and was hoping PGX would not know and go by the submission form, or (3) did not know which printing it was and just wanted PGX to sort it out, or (4) because it actually was a first printing.

 

However, since the book was opened in front of a video camera, I "tend" to go with number 2 above, and when the book came back designated as a 1st printing, saw the opportunity to "get a case" against PGX for some kind of out of court money settlement. The owner would not want to sell it labeled as a 1st printing and have a case against him, maybe, in the future, by some other guy who video taped his case opening.

 

Which means that PGX is incompentent at the very least (although to be fair, CGC has made errors in the past also, and some have been posted here).

 

I find it hard to believe that PGX would intentionally (no matter how incompetent you think or know they are) steal this persons comic book through this type of fraud. If it is a 1st printing of any UG comic book, it just wouldn't be worth the potential jail time, monetary loss or (gulp, dare I say it) reputation loss.

 

I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am stating what it looks like to me, a retired police officer who collects comics and knows just enough about human nature and slabbing, to be dangerous in my opinions.

 

Just doesn't smell right to me. But I do not know what book it is, nor have I seen said video (which neither info would change my mind).

 

Most here do not like PGX, but fair is fair.

[DiceX]

What gave you the foreknowledge to want to use a video camera while opening the PGX slab? I know most people would just have opened it and sent it in to CGC, or gave permission for CGC to crack the slab.

 

First off, I video all slab openings. Next, I didn't know that CGC would take a PGX slabbed books insitu until after the fact. I thought if grading company's were stand-offish about slicing comics from sealed poly-bags why would they accept a slabbed book from the competition (no less).

Since this incident, however, I've spoken to CGC (William) about this situation. How would they have handled this problem and the books I've on my mind to submit to them. And yes, William wishes I could have sent the book to them instead of opening it myself. But even if I knew I could submit this book to CGC in its PGX case, I would have opened it if only to touch it, read it and go through the pages again remembering the Comic-Con I got it from.

 

I'm confused. Why submit the book if you want to touch it, read it and go through the pages........?

 

Because he's full of shlt.

 

 

[conditionfreak]

I do want to ad that I have previously posted here, pics of two PGX slabbed books of mine that were way off.

 

One was a Popeye #1 labeled as #2. My submission form was correct and the correct book was in the slab, but the label stated issue #2. It was and still is #1 (I sold it on Ebay as an error labeld book, and didn't even get guide or close to guide for it) (;

 

The other was a Tales of Suspense #68, which I also sold on Ebay as an error labeled book and got just under guide. It stated the book was a 9.0 and an 8.0, both on the same label.

 

So, yea, they make mistakes big time, and apparently lots of them, since both of my books were in a batch of ten I submitted and they got two of the ten wrong. Thats a 20% wrong ratio.

 

Maybe "they" just had a party that previous night and had hang overs.

[ArAich]

http://www.pgxcomics.com/gallery.cfm?id=107

[MagicDan1-migration]

I'm the last person in the world that would defend PGX, so take this as you will.

 

My guess is that you sent a 3rd print in to PGX claiming that it was a 1st print. PGX, being the "experts" that they are, took you at your word and labeled it "1st Print".

 

You get the book back, and seeing that you fooled them, decide to video tape yourself opening the book, to reveal the 3rd print you knew was in there. Just to be able to pull some puzzy lawsuit scam on them to get them to pony up some money.

 

That's the only explanation as to why you *video taped* yourself opening the book. You KNEW you were trying to screw them.

 

I can't believe it, but I'm on PGX's side this time. The only thing they're guilty of is being dumbazzez, and that's nothing new. That's been proven many times before.

 

 

 

That's just what Mr. Patterson implied. Then I asked him, if I were to turn in a book and with "1st printing" written on the submission form would his team actually check that the book matched the submission information or would they take the clients word for it. He said that the book would have been checked approprietly.

 

Within one of my discussions with PGX, Mr. Patterson said that in cases like this, although he also says he's never heard of this situation, lie detectors have been used. I immediately welcomed the idea. I told him I'd welcome whatever it took if it would get me my book back. Then he made me another offer.

 

Though not enough to get another book in similar condition he claimed that his "board" wouldn't offer anything higher without arbritration and lawyers. Lawyer's cost money and arbritration means time. After two months of this already, where I'm the one instigating conversations I'm worn out. I may be taking the lowball figure.

 

As for the video, I video all submissions I open. A digital camera makes video documenting more convenient than the process of taking multiple photos of the action of cracking a comic out of it's slab. All I do is set the camera on the table, select "video", push the trigger and film till the book is checked out for its condition outside of it's slab.

[ArAich]

First off, I video all slab openings.

 

 

If this ain't uber-nerdy I don't know what is...

[ArAich]

For a noob you sure know how to use the PM system quite effectively...

[DiceX]

I'm the last person in the world that would defend PGX, so take this as you will.

 

My guess is that you sent a 3rd print in to PGX claiming that it was a 1st print. PGX, being the "experts" that they are, took you at your word and labeled it "1st Print".

 

You get the book back, and seeing that you fooled them, decide to video tape yourself opening the book, to reveal the 3rd print you knew was in there. Just to be able to pull some puzzy lawsuit scam on them to get them to pony up some money.

 

That's the only explanation as to why you *video taped* yourself opening the book. You KNEW you were trying to screw them.

 

I can't believe it, but I'm on PGX's side this time. The only thing they're guilty of is being dumbazzez, and that's nothing new. That's been proven many times before.

 

 

 

That's just what Mr. Patterson implied. Then I asked him, if I were to turn in a book and with "1st printing" written on the submission form would his team actually check that the book matched the submission information or would they take the clients word for it. He said that the book would have been checked approprietly.

 

Within one of my discussions with PGX, Mr. Patterson said that in cases like this, although he also says he's never heard of this situation, lie detectors have been used. I immediately welcomed the idea. I told him I'd welcome whatever it took if it would get me my book back. Then he made me another offer.

 

Though not enough to get another book in similar condition he claimed that his "board" wouldn't offer anything higher without arbritration and lawyers. Lawyer's cost money and arbritration means time. After two months of this already, where I'm the one instigating conversations I'm worn out. I may be taking the lowball figure.

 

As for the video, I video all submissions I open. A digital camera makes video documenting more convenient than the process of taking multiple photos of the action of cracking a comic out of it's slab. All I do is set the camera on the table, select "video", push the trigger and film till the book is checked out for its condition outside of it's slab.

 

Prove it, alter boy.

 

I challenge you to produce videos of 10 different "slab openings" and put the links right here in this thread.

You have one hour to finish your task.

And to make this believable, you need to give us 10 different times. Not 10 books from the same setting.

 

Get to it, chief. The clock is running.

 

 

[ArAich]

[Paratrooper]

http://www.pgxcomics.com/gallery.cfm?id=107

 

If this is indeed your book, and you had it graded over 3 years ago...you're going to have a tough time proving that you originally sent them a 1st Print.

 

Seeing PGX's track record in screwing up the label on many occasion will probably help them in this case. <-- Alanis Morrisette, I believe that's irony.

 

You probably have no receipt of purchasing a 1st Print, no photographic proof you ever owned one.

 

Before we should pass judgement, or make assumptions on what's actually going on...we should probably get the other story from PGX. On a matter this serious, it's always good to hear both stories before passing judgement.

 

Oh, and one more question based on some responses:

 

Did you scan the book prior to submission?

 

Sadly enough, no.

PGX was my first experience with a third-party-grader. And even though I now document everything, it wasn't in my practice on those first submissions. Since then, I began selling my books on the internet and discovered the importance of being as transparent as I could with customers. I began taking stills until I upgraded to a better camera last year. Now I scan all my books before submitting them to CGC and I video document any submissions I open.

 

If that TMNT book was one of your first batches, that would place the time of your submission around 2005.

 

What gave you the foreknowledge to want to use a video camera while opening the PGX slab? I know most people would just have opened it and sent it in to CGC, or gave permission for CGC to crack the slab.

 

First off, I video all slab openings. Next, I didn't know that CGC would take a PGX slabbed books insitu until after the fact. I thought if grading company's were stand-offish about slicing comics from sealed poly-bags why would they accept a slabbed book from the competition (no less).

Since this incident, however, I've spoken to CGC (William) about this situation. How would they have handled this problem and the books I've on my mind to submit to them. And yes, William wishes I could have sent the book to them instead of opening it myself. But even if I knew I could submit this book to CGC in its PGX case, I would have opened it if only to touch it, read it and go through the pages again remembering the Comic-Con I got it from.

 

It's now 2008 and you VIDEO document very expensive books being cracked out of the PGX slab.

 

What occured between 2005 and now to make you take that one extra step and video record a slab opening when taking a simple scan or photo would suffice? This is a valid question, as most of us here think that video recording a slab opening, other than for instructional purposes, a little extreme.

[ArAich]

Sic'em Vaughn...

[Limited66]

Dan, just curious: how did you know there was a problem with the book (such that you had a video camera at the ready) before you opened the case?

 

He told me "As a seller of comic books, I always document opening cases if only to prove to potential buyers that the book was at one time encapsulated. "

 

So he's an uber-nerd, and has probably had self gratification while reading a Wonder Woman comic.

 

 

Who hasn't

 

 

 

 

[DiceX]

 

 

[comics-rock]

I'm the last person in the world that would defend PGX, so take this as you will.

 

My guess is that you sent a 3rd print in to PGX claiming that it was a 1st print. PGX, being the "experts" that they are, took you at your word and labeled it "1st Print".

 

You get the book back, and seeing that you fooled them, decide to video tape yourself opening the book, to reveal the 3rd print you knew was in there. Just to be able to pull some puzzy lawsuit scam on them to get them to pony up some money.

 

That's the only explanation as to why you *video taped* yourself opening the book. You KNEW you were trying to screw them.

 

I can't believe it, but I'm on PGX's side this time. The only thing they're guilty of is being dumbazzez, and that's nothing new. That's been proven many times before.

 

 

 

so what your saying is third party grading is inefficent? that would mean its a bit of a scam and either way the blame falls solely at their feet. they scammed Dan, or Dan scammed them and they were to incompetent to catch it. if Dan did scam them, its their fault for not catching it and either way their liable. unfortunate, but perhaps they'll be more professional in their grading from now on.

 

ps Jennifer Love Hewitt has really nice breast. (I'm watching Ghost Whisperer)

[MagicDan1-migration]

What occured between 2005 and now to make you take that one extra step and video record a slab opening when taking a simple scan or photo would suffice? This is a valid question, as most of us here think that video recording a slab opening, other than for instructional purposes, a little extreme.

 

Here's somemore irony. It was a PGX blunder in 2007 that motivated me to video all slab activity. They returned a submitted book Donald Duck 978 encased with only an inner-well which was singed through in it sealed border. I argued that with out the outer-well they couldn't "guaranty" the grade given. That incident ended amicably when I documented, as PGX requested, the removal of the comic from it's inner-well to receive a full refund.