PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[N/A]

In the PM we had going he told me that I changed things and I scared him. On the paypal dispute he claimed the following:

 

"The items that are sold have changed in description and the person does not have the items to be mailed I have noticed a rather poor attitude and feel this person did not tell the whole truth and changed some of original plans for this purchase"

 

The only part I feel I could have improved is making the Presale known sooner in the transaction. Typically when someone contacts me I ask 3 questions

 

1) Are you looking for raw or graded?

2) What grade/condition?

Depending on what they're looking for 3) I have some coming in (timeline) and offer a presale.

 

The kicker is him just not fessing up to buyer's remorse which I assume is the real reason for demanding a refund.

[Forbush-Man]

Burn the Witch !!!

[Boboset]

The guy sounds like a bum.

I think he deserves to be on the list...

 

 

[jpolz]

I recently had a newbie that posted in the WTB thread contact me. We worked out a deal. He paid on the 6th and demanded a refund (including filing a paypal case) on the 10th. This was a presale of items arriving back from CGC. Is this an appropraite transaction to recommend he be put on the probation list?

 

Can the mods read PMs to confirm sales agreements through PMs? I don't want to question anyone's honesty, but we are talking about putting someone on the probation list without any public evidence that an agreement of a sale even existed. Branget's been around a long time, but this does introduce the possiblity for the probation list to be abused.

 

 

The only part I feel I could have improved is making the Presale known sooner in the transaction.

 

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

 

 

 

 

[asteroid-comix]

I recently had a newbie that posted in the WTB thread contact me. We worked out a deal. He paid on the 6th and demanded a refund (including filing a paypal case) on the 10th. This was a presale of items arriving back from CGC. Is this an appropraite transaction to recommend he be put on the probation list?

 

Can the mods read PMs to confirm sales agreements through PMs? I don't want to question anyone's honesty, but we are talking about putting someone on the probation list without any public evidence that an agreement of a sale even existed. Branget's been around a long time, but this does introduce the possiblity for the probation list to be abused.

 

 

The only part I feel I could have improved is making the Presale known sooner in the transaction.

 

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

The mods are not going to read PMs or get involved in sales disputes.

 

If the buyer disputes the facts as branget has laid them out and protests being on the probation list, he has a voice...and a keyboard (thumbs u

 

Otherwise, I'm with Ryan and Fuelman...he belongs on a list. Not only did he back out of a deal, but he did so in poor form.

Edited March 11, 2010 by frankbearss

[Boozad]

I've bought plenty from Jeff in this way. He's one of the easiest guys there is to work with and as straight as they come. Sounds like the exact same setup he used when we dealt.

[N/A]

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

 

 

 

 

I can see the issue here and it was after the funds were received. About an hour after it was received I mentioned the timing again and found it had not been mentioned previously. At that time I asked if he wanted to move forward. The option to cancel was made available at that time. He chose to go forward.

[Snake Eyes]

I recently had a newbie that posted in the WTB thread contact me. We worked out a deal. He paid on the 6th and demanded a refund (including filing a paypal case) on the 10th. This was a presale of items arriving back from CGC. Is this an appropraite transaction to recommend he be put on the probation list?

 

Can the mods read PMs to confirm sales agreements through PMs? I don't want to question anyone's honesty, but we are talking about putting someone on the probation list without any public evidence that an agreement of a sale even existed. Branget's been around a long time, but this does introduce the possiblity for the probation list to be abused.

 

 

The only part I feel I could have improved is making the Presale known sooner in the transaction.

 

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

The mods are not going to read PMs or get involved in sales disputes.

 

If the buyer disputes the facts as branget has laid them out and protests being on the probation list, he has a voice...and a keyboard (thumbs u

 

Otherwise, I'm with Ryan and Fuelman...he belongs on a list. Not only did he back out of a deal, but he did so in poor form.

 

I believe these gentlemen have the right of it as well. As mentioned, the mods will not involve themselves regardless of how the sale was recorded. To police ourselves as a community, this is how it works. Someone comes forward with a complaint. If the buyer has an appropriate defense, he will certainly be heard out. In the meantime, placing him on probationary status serves to protect the other members from also getting burned [see threads related to the Capfreak fiasco for reference on how one rogue buyer when not nipped in the bud can create a disaster]. It seems to me Jpolz that this process does help the probation list from being abused, which was the concern you voiced. If there is no case presented for the other side, he remains on probation. Should he successfully pursue a defense to backing out of the sale, then he will be removed and Branget will likely catch some heat from the community to correct whatever mistake he made (although he is a VERY well regarded seller and I find this a pretty unlikely outcome) (thumbs u

[sckao]

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

 

 

 

 

I can see the issue here and it was after the funds were received. About an hour after it was received I mentioned the timing again and found it had not been mentioned previously. At that time I asked if he wanted to move forward. The option to cancel was made available at that time. He chose to go forward.

 

Sounds like an okay situation to me... (canceling based on "new" information.)

 

I've had books that were coming back from CGC (but listed on the site) that didn't come back for many weeks.

 

He's a newbie so reputations cut both ways.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2010 by sckao

[jpolz]

OK Snake Eyes I see what you're saying. No point in letting the whole community get burned. But, branget does admit to a pretty serious mistake in not identifying this as a pre-sale up front. Buyer may be a flake, but the thing about terms changing isn't 100% untrue.

 

Sorry branget if I seem tough on you about this. Just the Prob. list being used for non-public sales seems a bit off to me so I needed to work it through.

[N/A]

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

 

 

 

 

I can see the issue here and it was after the funds were received. About an hour after it was received I mentioned the timing again and found it had not been mentioned previously. At that time I asked if he wanted to move forward. The option to cancel was made available at that time. He chose to go forward.

 

Sounds like an okay situation to me... (canceling based on "new" information.)

 

I've had books that were coming back from CGC (but listed on the site) that didn't come back for many weeks.

 

I would completely agree if that were the case. If he had chosen to request a refund at that time then no problem. I offered to cancel it because of the new information. My bad. However payment along with the "new information" happened on the 6th along with the decision to proceed.

 

On the 10th not only was a refund demanded but a paypal case filed even though I agreed to send him the refund. It is more the paypal case and claiming I changed the product and had some attitude. This is simply false.

[Boozad]

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

 

 

 

 

I can see the issue here and it was after the funds were received. About an hour after it was received I mentioned the timing again and found it had not been mentioned previously. At that time I asked if he wanted to move forward. The option to cancel was made available at that time. He chose to go forward.

 

Sounds like an okay situation to me... (canceling based on "new" information.)

 

I've had books that were coming back from CGC (but listed on the site) that didn't come back for many weeks.

 

He's a newbie so reputations cut both ways.

 

 

Cancelling for finding out it's a pre-sale may all be well and good, no doubting that. But to cancel by filing a chargeback and stating what the buyer did is bang out of order. I'm sure if he'd asked the seller for a refund straight out it would have happened without question.

 

The following reason the buyer gave is untrue. Where did the items change in description?

 

"The items that are sold have changed in description and the person does not have the items to be mailed I have noticed a rather poor attitude and feel this person did not tell the whole truth and changed some of original plans for this purchase"

[Boozad]

Just the Prob. list being used for non-public sales seems a bit off to me so I needed to work it through.

 

So you're saying it's OK to rip people off through PM?

[sckao]

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

 

 

 

 

I can see the issue here and it was after the funds were received. About an hour after it was received I mentioned the timing again and found it had not been mentioned previously. At that time I asked if he wanted to move forward. The option to cancel was made available at that time. He chose to go forward.

 

Sounds like an okay situation to me... (canceling based on "new" information.)

 

I've had books that were coming back from CGC (but listed on the site) that didn't come back for many weeks.

 

I would completely agree if that were the case. If he had chosen to request a refund at that time then no problem. I offered to cancel it because of the new information. My bad. However payment along with the "new information" happened on the 6th along with the decision to proceed.

 

On the 10th not only was a refund demanded but a paypal case filed even though I agreed to send him the refund. It is more the paypal case and claiming I changed the product and had some attitude. This is simply false.

 

I agree. Why people do this is puzzling...

 

In this case, the end result is probably the same, however. (Even though his actions were unwarranted and insulting.) He'd like his money back and he hasn't received the item yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[N/A]

OK Snake Eyes I see what you're saying. No point in letting the whole community get burned. But, branget does admit to a pretty serious mistake in not identifying this as a pre-sale up front. Buyer may be a flake, but the thing about terms changing isn't 100% untrue.

 

Sorry branget if I seem tough on you about this. Just the Prob. list being used for non-public sales seems a bit off to me so I needed to work it through.

 

No worries. I brought it here to discuss. I mistakenly had someone added to the probie list over an Ebay transaction when I 1st joined the boards.

 

I completely agree about changing terms being my bad. Completely. The timing of this just doesn't fit though as I immediately asked if he wished to proceed when I realized it was not mentioned. Also I would hope that if the whole reason to cancel the transaction was because of the delay in shipment then a simple "I'd like to cancel because you do not have them in hand" would suffice.

 

 

[comicdonna]

Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after?

 

 

 

 

I can see the issue here and it was after the funds were received. About an hour after it was received I mentioned the timing again and found it had not been mentioned previously. At that time I asked if he wanted to move forward. The option to cancel was made available at that time. He chose to go forward.

 

Sounds like an okay situation to me... (canceling based on "new" information.)

 

I've had books that were coming back from CGC (but listed on the site) that didn't come back for many weeks.

 

I would completely agree if that were the case. If he had chosen to request a refund at that time then no problem. I offered to cancel it because of the new information. My bad. However payment along with the "new information" happened on the 6th along with the decision to proceed.

 

On the 10th not only was a refund demanded but a paypal case filed even though I agreed to send him the refund. It is more the paypal case and claiming I changed the product and had some attitude. This is simply false.

I think he should be added to the probation list. If the newbee has something to say, he can do it here.

[Bosco685]

I mistakenly had someone added to the probie list over an Ebay transaction when I 1st joined the boards.

I was going to request adding you for beating me to a Vengeance of Bane a few months ago. That's just wrong!

 

[jpolz]

Just the Prob. list being used for non-public sales seems a bit off to me so I needed to work it through.

 

So you're saying it's OK to rip people off through PM?

 

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

 

[Boozad]

I think he should be added to the probation list. If the newbee has something to say, he can do it here.

 

So do I Mike. The meat and bones of this is that the buyer went ahead after knowing it was a presale, but then filed a chargeback 4 days later stating the items had changed when they hadn't.

[N/A]

I mistakenly had someone added to the probie list over an Ebay transaction when I 1st joined the boards.

I was going to request adding you for beating me to a Vengeance of Bane a few months ago. That's just wrong!

 

 

 

It's now in the UK