PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[comicdonna]

I've always thought 1 b) was too forgiving to non-paying buyers & the rules don't address anything for sellers wanting quicker payment.

 

Today's Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

A Tighter Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take shorter or longer than 30 days - for example, a seller requiring payment in 48 hours or a transaction involving time payments over a longer time; in these instances the 30 day clock is waived once an agreed upon payment time has passed - a 72 hour PM notifying the buyer of your intent to nominate to the probation list will serve as the grace period.

If you're 3 days late, you're fried?

[VintageComics]

It gets more complicated.

 

The last communication I had with the guy on October 17, he said payments would start in November. We didn't specify an actual day. I just assumed it would be somewhere around the start or middle of November as he said he had to finish off time payments with another board member in October.

 

Like I said, with board members in good standing I tend to be pretty lax and give them the benefit of the doubt. Heck, if he just said he regretting buying the book the day after it wouldn't have been a big deal but I haven't heard from him in a month now.

 

I've edited my current PM to him (and I've told him I've edited it, it's still unread) to let him know that if I don't hear back from him that he's eligible for PL. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

I do take responsibility for not taking collateral or negotiating an actual start time. So much for handshake agreements.

 

 

 

 

[Speedy-D]

I just wrote this in a PM...

 

The 30 days is because life happens. That's why it was created. It's a grace period we give each other. It could work another way, but this is the way it works. If we don't want to give a 30 day grace period we need to state that specifically before the sale is completed. This is true for straight sales and time payments.

 

So yeah, I hear you. Dude is supposed to pay on the 15th. If he doesn't, he failed. And it seems like saying "due on the 15th" could mean "due in the 15th so no 30 day grace period." But historically it hasn't. We give this grace period for failure, and need to be up front if we don't want to follow that rule.

 

I guess another way to look at it is that, by default, payment for regular sales is due that day, with a 30 day grace period. Saying "payment due within three days" means that grace period is three days long, not 30.

 

Does that make sense? The more I write about it, the less sense it makes to me!

[comicdonna]

It gets more complicated.

 

The last communication I had with the guy on October 17, he said payments would start in November. We didn't specify an actual day. I just assumed it would be somewhere around the start or middle of November as he said he had to finish off time payments with another board member in October.

 

Like I said, with board members in good standing I tend to be pretty lax and give them the benefit of the doubt. Heck, if he just said he regretting buying the book the day after it wouldn't have been a big deal but I haven't heard from him in a month now.

 

I've edited my current PM to him (and I've told him I've edited it, it's still unread) to let him know that if I don't hear back from him that he's eligible for PL. I guess we'll see what happens.

 

I do take responsibility for not taking collateral or negotiating an actual start time. So much for handshake agreements.

 

 

 

It sounds to me like he has until the end of November before he's late? I think you should have made a more precise agreement.

[bababooey]

I've always thought 1 b) was too forgiving to non-paying buyers & the rules don't address anything for sellers wanting quicker payment.

 

Today's Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

A Tighter Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take shorter or longer than 30 days - for example, a seller requiring payment in 48 hours or a transaction involving time payments over a longer time; in these instances the 30 day clock is waived once an agreed upon payment time has passed - a 72 hour PM notifying the buyer of your intent to nominate to the probation list will serve as the grace period.

If you're 3 days late, you're fried?

If you haven't worked it out or communicated with the seller, yeah. It's just a proposal that seems more in line with board sentiment & many are shortening the payment timelines & we lack enforcement avenues with those.

 

Any "defined payment terms" that are spelled out & agreed to - whether it be a short term (ie- 48 hours) or the previously covered time-payments are agreed upon dates that should be honored. The 72 hour grace period gives the buyer time to pay or get bent out of shape and post here...

 

Edited November 13, 2014 by bababooey

[InvstmntComcSuply]

It gets more complicated.

 

he said payments would start in November. We didn't specify an actual day.

 

I've edited my current PM to him (and I've told him I've edited it, it's still unread) to let him know that if I don't hear back from him that he's eligible for PL...

 

In January

[crassus]

I just wrote this in a PM...

 

The 30 days is because life happens. That's why it was created. It's a grace period we give each other. It could work another way, but this is the way it works. If we don't want to give a 30 day grace period we need to state that specifically before the sale is completed. This is true for straight sales and time payments.

 

So yeah, I hear you. Dude is supposed to pay on the 15th. If he doesn't, he failed. And it seems like saying "due on the 15th" could mean "due in the 15th so no 30 day grace period." But historically it hasn't. We give this grace period for failure, and need to be up front if we don't want to follow that rule.

 

I guess another way to look at it is that, by default, payment for regular sales is due that day, with a 30 day grace period. Saying "payment due within three days" means that grace period is three days long, not 30.

 

Does that make sense? The more I write about it, the less sense it makes to me!

 

I had always understood the 30 day period to also signify that there was an expectation that both parties would try to sort it out before making it a public issue here. Since the moment it becomes public here, names named etc, it means more drama and distraction for everybody. Once 30 days has elapsed, the wronged party can at least say they tried to get compliance before going to court, so to speak.

[comicdonna]

It gets more complicated.

 

he said payments would start in November. We didn't specify an actual day.

 

I've edited my current PM to him (and I've told him I've edited it, it's still unread) to let him know that if I don't hear back from him that he's eligible for PL...

 

In January

30th of December.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I've always thought 1 b) was too forgiving to non-paying buyers & the rules don't address anything for sellers wanting quicker payment.

 

Today's Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

A Tighter Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take shorter or longer than 30 days - for example, a seller requiring payment in 48 hours or a transaction involving time payments over a longer time; in these instances the 30 day clock is waived once an agreed upon payment time has passed - a 72 hour PM notifying the buyer of your intent to nominate to the probation list will serve as the grace period.

 

The 30 day period is only for Probation List Nomination.

If your require shorter payment terms, your option as a seller is to cancel the transaction when the buyer does not meet those terms.

[comicdonna]

I've always thought 1 b) was too forgiving to non-paying buyers & the rules don't address anything for sellers wanting quicker payment.

 

Today's Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

A Tighter Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take shorter or longer than 30 days - for example, a seller requiring payment in 48 hours or a transaction involving time payments over a longer time; in these instances the 30 day clock is waived once an agreed upon payment time has passed - a 72 hour PM notifying the buyer of your intent to nominate to the probation list will serve as the grace period.

If you're 3 days late, you're fried?

If you haven't worked it out or communicated with the seller, yeah. It's just a proposal that seems more in line with board sentiment & many are shortening the payment timelines & we lack enforcement avenues with those.

 

Any "defined payment terms" that are spelled & agreed to - whether it be a short term (ie- 48 hours) or the previously covered time-payments are agreed upon dates that should be honored. The 72 hour grace period gives the buyer time to pay or get bent out of shape and post here...

That would be like saying if the buyer doesn't have his book within 8 days of paying, the seller goes on the probation list.

48 hours to ship

72 hours to arrive

72 hour grace period.

[VintageComics]

 

I just wrote this in a PM...

 

The 30 days is because life happens. That's why it was created. It's a grace period we give each other. It could work another way, but this is the way it works. If we don't want to give a 30 day grace period we need to state that specifically before the sale is completed. This is true for straight sales and time payments.

 

So yeah, I hear you. Dude is supposed to pay on the 15th. If he doesn't, he failed. And it seems like saying "due on the 15th" could mean "due in the 15th so no 30 day grace period." But historically it hasn't. We give this grace period for failure, and need to be up front if we don't want to follow that rule.

 

I guess another way to look at it is that, by default, payment for regular sales is due that day, with a 30 day grace period. Saying "payment due within three days" means that grace period is three days long, not 30.

 

Does that make sense? The more I write about it, the less sense it makes to me!

 

I had always understood the 30 day period to also signify that there was an expectation that both parties would try to sort it out before making it a public issue here. Since the moment it becomes public here, names named etc, it means more drama and distraction for everybody. Once 30 days has elapsed, the wronged party can at least say they tried to get compliance before going to court, so to speak.

 

What bothers me is that he hasn't even communicated in 30 days. He has just read PMs and not replied for a month.

 

Personally, I think 30 days with no communication is very different than two people trying to work through a problem for 30 days.

 

And I agree with some boardies that 30 days is far too long anyway.

 

1 week is usually plenty to either communicate or solve a problem. 2 weeks is LOTS of time to sell a book to raise funds if you need to. It's what I always did.

 

30 days is ridiculously long to solve a problem, IMO. That's layaway and 'charge interest' territory.

 

Again, I fully agree that I should have taken a down payment and worked out the terms, but you live and learn. Hindsight is always glaringly obvious.

 

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

It gets more complicated.

 

he said payments would start in November. We didn't specify an actual day.

 

I've edited my current PM to him (and I've told him I've edited it, it's still unread) to let him know that if I don't hear back from him that he's eligible for PL...

 

In January

30th of December.

 

But January sounds so much further.

 

 

I should have just said in 2015 to really give it a poke. Sorry, Roy.

[comicdonna]

[pickycollector]

I just wrote this in a PM...

 

The 30 days is because life happens. That's why it was created. It's a grace period we give each other. It could work another way, but this is the way it works. If we don't want to give a 30 day grace period we need to state that specifically before the sale is completed. This is true for straight sales and time payments.

 

So yeah, I hear you. Dude is supposed to pay on the 15th. If he doesn't, he failed. And it seems like saying "due on the 15th" could mean "due in the 15th so no 30 day grace period." But historically it hasn't. We give this grace period for failure, and need to be up front if we don't want to follow that rule.

 

I guess another way to look at it is that, by default, payment for regular sales is due that day, with a 30 day grace period. Saying "payment due within three days" means that grace period is three days long, not 30.

 

Does that make sense? The more I write about it, the less sense it makes to me!

 

I had always understood the 30 day period to also signify that there was an expectation that both parties would try to sort it out before making it a public issue here. Since the moment it becomes public here, names named etc, it means more drama and distraction for everybody. Once 30 days has elapsed, the wronged party can at least say they tried to get compliance before going to court, so to speak.

 

What if the other party does not bother to read your PMs after more than two months ?

[VintageComics]

It gets more complicated.

 

he said payments would start in November. We didn't specify an actual day.

 

I've edited my current PM to him (and I've told him I've edited it, it's still unread) to let him know that if I don't hear back from him that he's eligible for PL...

 

In January

30th of December.

 

But January sounds so much further.

 

 

I should have just said in 2015 to really give it a poke. Sorry, Roy.

 

[bababooey]

I've always thought 1 b) was too forgiving to non-paying buyers & the rules don't address anything for sellers wanting quicker payment.

 

Today's Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

A Tighter Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take shorter or longer than 30 days - for example, a seller requiring payment in 48 hours or a transaction involving time payments over a longer time; in these instances the 30 day clock is waived once an agreed upon payment time has passed - a 72 hour PM notifying the buyer of your intent to nominate to the probation list will serve as the grace period.

If you're 3 days late, you're fried?

If you haven't worked it out or communicated with the seller, yeah. It's just a proposal that seems more in line with board sentiment & many are shortening the payment timelines & we lack enforcement avenues with those.

 

Any "defined payment terms" that are spelled & agreed to - whether it be a short term (ie- 48 hours) or the previously covered time-payments are agreed upon dates that should be honored. The 72 hour grace period gives the buyer time to pay or get bent out of shape and post here...

That would be like saying if the buyer doesn't have his book within 8 days of paying, the seller goes on the probation list.

48 hours to ship

72 hours to arrive

72 hour grace period.

Not at all comparable - some things, like transit time are outside of the seller's control.

A buyer sending payment is virtually instantaneous and it is entirely within his control. If that buyer agrees to pay "this" on "this" day...why shouldn't a 72 hour waiting period be sufficient? I know "life happens" even when agreements have been struck but I'd expect people to communicate when that happens.

 

I'm just throwing this out as a suggestion for discussion.

 

[crassus]

I just wrote this in a PM...

 

The 30 days is because life happens. That's why it was created. It's a grace period we give each other. It could work another way, but this is the way it works. If we don't want to give a 30 day grace period we need to state that specifically before the sale is completed. This is true for straight sales and time payments.

 

So yeah, I hear you. Dude is supposed to pay on the 15th. If he doesn't, he failed. And it seems like saying "due on the 15th" could mean "due in the 15th so no 30 day grace period." But historically it hasn't. We give this grace period for failure, and need to be up front if we don't want to follow that rule.

 

I guess another way to look at it is that, by default, payment for regular sales is due that day, with a 30 day grace period. Saying "payment due within three days" means that grace period is three days long, not 30.

 

Does that make sense? The more I write about it, the less sense it makes to me!

 

I had always understood the 30 day period to also signify that there was an expectation that both parties would try to sort it out before making it a public issue here. Since the moment it becomes public here, names named etc, it means more drama and distraction for everybody. Once 30 days has elapsed, the wronged party can at least say they tried to get compliance before going to court, so to speak.

 

What if the other party does not bother to read your PMs after more than two months ?

 

I agree if there is a prolonged and intentional break down in communication in most cases it can be assumed the deal has died, but in Roy's case (as I understand it), no precise day of the month was set for first payment, the buyer has not yet technically violated the terms of the deal, he has gone silent, and that is very odd, yes, but not yet a violation of the deal, at least as I understand the deal.

[bababooey]

I've always thought 1 b) was too forgiving to non-paying buyers & the rules don't address anything for sellers wanting quicker payment.

 

Today's Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

A Tighter Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take shorter or longer than 30 days - for example, a seller requiring payment in 48 hours or a transaction involving time payments over a longer time; in these instances the 30 day clock is waived once an agreed upon payment time has passed - a 72 hour PM notifying the buyer of your intent to nominate to the probation list will serve as the grace period.

 

The 30 day period is only for Probation List Nomination.

If your require shorter payment terms, your option as a seller is to cancel the transaction when the buyer does not meet those terms.

I understand what the current circumstance is - that's why I specifically added it to the tighter rule I outlined.

 

I've been on the other side explaining the 30 day wait to someone here & I think I told Doc Balls he had no PL recourse after calling off a deal with a late payer & selling his book elsewhere. I get it.

 

That's why I'm proposing something stricter..because I don't agree with someone posting a "takeit" & not following through, regardless of seller's time frame.

 

 

 

[wombat]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the difference between these:

 

1. I say payment is due in 3 days so that trumps the 30 day rule.

2. I say time payments start on day xx, if you miss that you get the 30 day rule.

[comicdonna]

I've always thought 1 b) was too forgiving to non-paying buyers & the rules don't address anything for sellers wanting quicker payment.

 

Today's Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take longer than 30 days - for example, a transaction involving time payments over a longer time, the 30 day clock begins from the time the agreed upon conditions were violated.

 

A Tighter Rule:

30 Day Rule 1 b) If the transaction is agreed on by both parties to take shorter or longer than 30 days - for example, a seller requiring payment in 48 hours or a transaction involving time payments over a longer time; in these instances the 30 day clock is waived once an agreed upon payment time has passed - a 72 hour PM notifying the buyer of your intent to nominate to the probation list will serve as the grace period.

 

The 30 day period is only for Probation List Nomination.

If your require shorter payment terms, your option as a seller is to cancel the transaction when the buyer does not meet those terms.

I understand what the current circumstance is - that's why I specifically added it to the tighter rule I outlined.

 

I've been on the other side explaining the 30 day wait to someone here & I think I told Doc Balls he had no PL recourse after calling off a deal with a late payer & selling his book elsewhere. I get it.

 

That's why I'm proposing something stricter..because I don't agree with someone posting a "takeit" & not following through, regardless of seller's time frame.

 

 

Being added to the probation list 5 days after hitting the i'll take it, will never fly.