PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Bio-Rupp]

Seems over to me.

 

As long as it was just a little inconvienence and aggrevation, I think you fellas can come back out of this as business associates and friends.

 

When it comes to large amounts of money, everyone gets jumpy... but all is good now right? So shake hands guys and lets call it a day.

 

 

[asteroid-comix]

Frankbearss:

 

Are you in love with paypal or something? I would have had no problem verifying myself for paypal if they would have worked with me. But they froze my accounts and informed me that they needed to run a complete credit check on me that could take weeks (for the crime of selling 90k worth of books in one month). When I complained about the immense problems this would cause with the buyers, their reply was: "So what."

 

Rather than hold the buyers' funds for what could have been over a month, I did what I felt was right. I informed everybody of what had happened, told them I would refund the money, and would be happy to work out a deal with them [quite a few took me up on it, some ignored the offer, and one clown - on the Boards here as Wampler - lost his small mind over it.] As soon as I refunded the money, I had a major problem.

 

After I refunded the money, I was informed that this was proof that I was some sort of criminal and, because of this action and the two buyer complaints, my account was suspended. I called paypal and asked to talk to someone in charge. I got this ******* who was supposedly a supervisor. I told him the whole situation. His reply was basically: I could care less. I told him I wanted to talk to someone above him. He said there is no one above him.

 

At this point, it was no longer about verification (which I would have done).

Paypal's problem was with the refunds and buyer complaints

 

I had not tried to hide anything from this ******* because I wasn't trying to do anything wrong. After I talked to him, every paypal and ebay account of mine and every person in my family was limited/suspended over a period of two weeks. My other auctions on ebay were canceled. I called up and tried to talk to someone else. I was simply told that there was no appeal and no one higher up I could talk to.

 

Over the course of the month of August, I wasted hours and hours on the phone with this. At no point did anyone from ebay/paypal treat me with any respect or consideration. At no point did anyone from ebay/paypal even give a damn about my problems or my business. So I eventually, after one solid month of , said to hell with it. I closed everything and charge-backed the fees for the services they did not perform.

 

I walked away.

 

Would I have done things differently if I knew how it would turn out? Of course. But I am not some angry bull in a china shop. I tried for one straight month to work this out like a reasonable person. No one from ebay/paypal had any interest.

Yep, paypal is the shiznit. Thinking about closing out all my other financial accounts and going strictly paypal

 

Ever hear the phrase "you get more bee's with honey"

 

[KryptoSpidey]

Got a whole bunch of e-mails saying I was being put on the probation list.

 

When I was contacted by Andrew (GA Collectibles), this is what I wrote back:

 

Hi Andrew,

I know I got them and I did not charge them back. This may have something to do with my problems with paypal. Paypal has been trying to do a lot of strange things to my accounts (trapping other people's money in my paypal accounts, trying to write checks on my bank accounts without my consent, etc). They don't seem to understand that I can just call up and get this stuff straightened out (the vice-president of Bank of America who handles my accounts is a personal friend of mine).

No matter what, I will make sure you get paid.

 

Basically, ebay/paypal decided, because I would not fork over my social security number and other information upon demand or complete a transaction were I am convinced they blocked bidders, that all my accounts were blocked/limited. I decided that I did not want to do business with people who treated me like a criminal without appeal. All my ebay accounts have been basically dead since August 31.

 

[And yes I changed my ebay ids and made my feedback private when I screwed around with the accounts as much as possible before abandoning them. However, I'm not trying to hide anything, I was just pissed that I could not close them. If you really doubt this, I'll make the feedback visible again to prove it.]

 

The reason I cannot close my accounts is that, on August 31, I charged back all the fees from ebay/paypal from the auctions they ended or forced me to refund. They have basically been trying to get this money back ever since. Because of this, every credit card that I had on file with ebay/paypal has been canceled.

 

I e-mailed the situation over with Andrew and I offered to simply pay him for the books straight up (by check or money order) to avoid paypal (and he could pocket the paypal fees). He declined this offer and said he needed the money immediately. I went to paypal and, sure enough, there was an open case. I closed it and e-mailed back:

 

I went to the Paypal resolution center. I canceled the chargeback (there is a button saying "cancel chargeback now"). Considering the fact that I never disputed the Charge, this is all rather odd. Hopefully this ends it. However, as I said before, I will make sure, if paypal continues with this garbage, that you get paid as I have the books. I would apologize for the situation but I did not do anything. So I guess I'll just send my sympathy. Hell, anyone who has to deal with these paypal clowns has my sympathy. And I thought it was all over (except for the fact that they will never close my account supposedly). Let me know if it does not work out,

John

 

The day after this e-mail (it was at night) I contacted my bank. My bank told that the chargeback was initiated by paypal. I had them cancel it on their end anyways. Then I got this e-mail from Andrew:

 

Paypal has redeposited the funds into my account though the Dispute is still pending resolution with the cc company.

Thanks, Andrew

 

Does this strike anyone else as odd? Paypal releasing the funds without the dispute being over?

 

In any case................

 

1) As soon as I knew there was a problem, I dealt with it as quickly and swiftly as I could and promised to make it right, but yet......

 

2) Andrew (GA Collectibles) nominated me for the probation list before even getting in contact with me and then never even bothered to tell me that he did so. As far as that goes, I'll never have any use for him again, and...

 

3) I'm really disappointed on how everyone here passed judgment without even hearing my side (reminds me of a certain company), and also...

 

4) I don't know what I ever did to tick off the clown who calls himself Krytospidey but he always seems to have some sort of ax to grind against me. But I don't appreciate anyone calling my son a 'tool' in any context. Why don't you just go **** ********, *** ******** *******. Or is fill in the blanks beyond your mental capacity?

 

5) Put me on the bloody list if you all want, I don't care.

 

Seems to me like you have some serious issues going on.

From your whole Ebay fiasco,to this now,All of which you keep pointing your finger at Ebay/Paypal.

You openly stated you would still buy/sell thru Ebay even after your ASM 1 listing problem,that you didn't complete the Trans on...i still don't buy your story.You screwed over an honest buyer that won that auction...whether you liked the price/result...the auction ended,someone won it,you failed to complete your end.

You should have walked away from Ebay/Paypal at that very moment if you were so "over them".

Now it's Ebay/Paypals fault again,tying back to the ASM 1.

I really could care less if you think i'm a clown,or that your son may/may not have been the beginning of your demise as being looked at as a "stand-up person to deal deal with".

Sure seems that since you gave him "permission" to do some Ebay selling for you,and use YOUR Paypal,your whole "persona" sure has gone down hill,maybe you should think about that.

I have never done a transaction with you,and from the actions i've seen here the last month,never would.

I know you have some strong supporters here on the boards,everybody has their "friends" and past business dealings that were positive.

I haven't heard a single thing about anyone having a positive dealing with you in recent times.

Maybe in hind sight,you should have just completed that ASM 1 trans thru Ebay,and let everyone else that you refunded their paypal payment/ebay wins have had their "legit auction wins" be solid.

The Extra couple of grand you say Ebays auction was going to cost you on the ASM1,has cost you way more,in so many ways.

Call me a clown,hate me,i dont give a ,just calling it like i see it.

[Transplant]

Seems over to me.

 

As long as it was just a little inconvienence and aggrevation, I think you fellas can come back out of this as business associates and friends.

 

When it comes to large amounts of money, everyone gets jumpy... but all is good now right? So shake hands guys and lets call it a day.

 

Are you reading the same thing I am? The only reason GAC got his money back from Paypal, not saying he wouldn't have gotten it back from TF, is that he has a long history of no problem transaction. I.e., it's a courtesy thing for a longtime customer. It doesn't mean the credit card dispute has been resolved, at least as far as Paypal is concerned. In my mind here's the rank of innocent parties:

1) GAC

2) TF

3) Ebay/Paypal

 

While TF may not think he has (or even actually have) done anything wrong. GAC has done even less to be inconvenienced. Whether TF intended it, his actions resulted in a great deal of inconvenience to GAC. I am perplexed that he keeps calling out GAC as having done something wrong. It sounds to me like TF didn't initially respond to GAC's PMs, emails, etc. and GAC had to go through a lot to get the money back in his account, none of which was the result of TF's actions.

 

If I were in TF's spot, I would feel bad for somehow having caused GAC inconvenience. I'd be mad at Ebay/Paypal but I would be cognizant of the collateral damage there.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Got a whole bunch of e-mails saying I was being put on the probation list.

 

...

 

Basically, ebay/paypal decided, because I would not fork over my social security number and other information upon demand or complete a transaction were I am convinced they blocked bidders, that all my accounts were blocked/limited. I decided that I did not want to do business with people who treated me like a criminal without appeal. All my ebay accounts have been basically dead since August 31.

 

...

 

Thanks for responding in here John. I knew that something had happened when you mentioned having issues with Paypal, in the message to me when I bought your ASM 42.

 

I couldn't say anything more here to help, and I'm glad that you did. It isn't really necessary for you to reveal every last detail of what went on. You mentioned and quoted your message about paying for the item from GACollectibles(Andrew).

 

It sounds to me like you did your best to treat your trading partners well. That is more admirable than trying to placate eBay and Paypal. TempusFugitivus did not know that Paypal was going to take money from other eBay member's accounts in order to get their fees. In my mind that is criminal on their part. In a regulated industry, like banking, that would put Paypal in very serious federal peril, if there were such regulations.

 

Both eBay and Paypal have too much control and influence over transactions with no oversight or regulation above them. That is a primary factor of why monopolies are illegal, in the United States. I personally think they charge too much money for what they do. We consumers really need a competitor to force the prices down. This goes directly to the Paypal fees, and the personal payments debates. If they only charged a nominal fee(3% is excessive), then that would not be an issue IMO.

 

We don't need all of those details not given by the words I highlighted above. I'm satisfied that Paypal(eBay owns them) is the guilty party in the many problems created with the accounts of TempusFugitivus(John).

 

 

 

The idea of giving out the social security number, I'd like to make a comment about that. Please indulge me and my long-winded story/rant below.

 

 

 

I had a conversation with my internet provider Comcast last week. I lost both my cable and internet during the UT football game. A huge thunderstorm came through in the 1st quarter and I couldn't watch the game after that. The rain was enough that I also couldn't watch it on my Direct TV satellite. I called Comcast after the game started back, I was missing the game plus I had no internet.

 

I asked specifically if there were any known outages in my area. The Comcast representative immediately asked me for my SS#. I don;t do that, and I didn't argue with him, not one word. I asked to speak to his supervisor. I was serious with the supervisor, I told him I do not ever give out my SS#, and that it was unacceptable for them to ask for it. He was very bright, he comprehended that I was not kidding, and he offered that they are not supposed to ask for the SS# unless private information was going to be discussed.

 

I thanked him for his common sense to understand how stupid it is to start by asking for the SS#. We were in agreement, but before thanking him for telling me all of the area had lost cable/internet, I asked him to assure me that their employees would not do that again. The result was he went over redundant policies to me for about 20-30 seconds, and I caught something in it I had never heard before.

 

Comcast will accept a driver's license number to verify a person's identity. I saw that as a great sign of a chance for common sense to be used. I offered to give him my driver's license so that they'd stop asking me for the SS#. I gave him that after giving out the SS# again(I hate that). That now is one more place that I should never have to mention the SS# ever again.

 

My point is simple and I told the Comcast supervisor this. You have to give out your social security number to open an account. That's perfectly fine, but after that first time, the SS# should never ever be mentioned again. That means not the last four digits, that means none of it, ever again. There's no reason that many other pieces of information can't be used to prove who you are, without giving out the SS# that is critical for any criminal identity theft. If the stupid companies would stop asking for the SS# in every important communication, stealing your identity would be 100's of times harder to do.

 

I'm suggesting that everyone mention this when you contact your financial partners and creditors. Ask them to use some other form of proof of identity besides the SS#. The driver's license is a great idea for most people, but any similar length password type code should be enough to use instead. Regards,

[jpolz]

I agree with you about the SS#. Too many people give it out too freely, consequently way too many people have access to it that shouldn't. I disagree with you about the Driver's License Number though. Your state isn't allowed to disclose or share your DLN except as specifically allowed under federal law. It can be used as a secondary means of identification and used by identity thieves.

 

Your cable company, or any other business you deal with, should be asking for your account # with them, or your phone #, in order to identify you in their system. Anything else puts your financial (and possibly personal) safety at risk.

 

[comicdonna]

I use my drivers licence number to get the "Advantage " saving at Price Chopper.

[jpolz]

I don't even remember what name I used at the local supermarket for their discount card application, but I'm sure the address I put down was "1 main street". As long as I can swipe the card and get the discount I don't care what happens to the junk they try to mail out.

[comicdonna]

I never carry my card, I just give them my license number.

[skypinkblu]

I don't know about other States, but in NY, your driver's license and SS# are linked.

 

The State stopped filing paper documents with full SS#'s about 6 years ago, because of data theft of the paper documents, but your driver's license # is not much safer.

 

Lots of people have access to the data bases, most of them are State workers, but there are other agencies linked.

 

You just have to be really careful about checking your credit/cards, etc. I don't think anything is foolproof though.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

Of course nothing is perfect. But it's a rare thing when a phone call to anyone you do business with(creditors), doesn't include them asking for your SS#, the last four digits. When the SS# last four digits are constantly spoken, of course thieves will get them eventually.

 

The key is to not constantly speak those four numbers. Where I work they installed a gate and used our SS#'s as the codes to open it. That is stupid, hello USPS.

[Marvelfangirl]

The bottom line was that the funds were removed from my account and that was not initiated by me, it was somehow initiated by the buyer's end(either through his Paypal account or the cc company account).

 

I just got off the phone with Paypal, they have released the funds back to me based on the information I have provided as well as the buyer canceling the Dispute, however, the Dispute is still active as it still needs to be settled with the cc company.

 

pain in the .

Yea..sorry to hear about your situation.

I would be pretty miffed myself

Sorry to here about your situation GA

[Bio-Rupp]

Seems over to me.

 

As long as it was just a little inconvienence and aggrevation, I think you fellas can come back out of this as business associates and friends.

 

When it comes to large amounts of money, everyone gets jumpy... but all is good now right? So shake hands guys and lets call it a day.

 

Are you reading the same thing I am? The only reason GAC got his money back from Paypal, not saying he wouldn't have gotten it back from TF, is that he has a long history of no problem transaction. I.e., it's a courtesy thing for a longtime customer. It doesn't mean the credit card dispute has been resolved, at least as far as Paypal is concerned. In my mind here's the rank of innocent parties:

1) GAC

2) TF

3) Ebay/Paypal

 

While TF may not think he has (or even actually have) done anything wrong. GAC has done even less to be inconvenienced. Whether TF intended it, his actions resulted in a great deal of inconvenience to GAC. I am perplexed that he keeps calling out GAC as having done something wrong. It sounds to me like TF didn't initially respond to GAC's PMs, emails, etc. and GAC had to go through a lot to get the money back in his account, none of which was the result of TF's actions.

 

If I were in TF's spot, I would feel bad for somehow having caused GAC inconvenience. I'd be mad at Ebay/Paypal but I would be cognizant of the collateral damage there.

 

All I'm saying, and not taking either side, is ...

 

1) Money was refunded

2) Explanation was offered.

 

Both sides can salvage their business relationship if they want to without the board's help either way.

 

just

 

 

[Turtle]

Quick question:

 

A deal was conducted entirely via PM. A book was offered by party A, an was thrown up by Party B, and then Party B backs out of the deal some time down the line. It was a deal that never saw the marketplace and both members are established here. Probation-worthy due to the a member backing out or not probation-worthy due to nothing ever being public? Thoughts?

[comicdonna]

Most of my deals are done via PM. It's certainly probation worthy! (thumbs u

[PEP]

So what are the ramifications (sorry for the big word) of backing out on a deal? If I want to buy a certain comic but then a few days later I find a cheaper deal or decide its not what I really wanted, is that probation worthy?

[Boozad]

So what are the ramifications (sorry for the big word) of backing out on a deal? If I want to buy a certain comic but then a few days later I find a cheaper deal or decide its not what I really wanted, is that probation worthy?

 

Problems have definitely been brough tup before because of these reasons.

[Snake Eyes]

So what are the ramifications (sorry for the big word) of backing out on a deal? If I want to buy a certain comic but then a few days later I find a cheaper deal or decide its not what I really wanted, is that probation worthy?

 

If the seller decides that it has caused enough difficulty/inconvenience then yes. Ultimately I think it should be left to the discretion of the wronged party. Maybe to him it was not a big deal, so he lets it slide. However, what if in those several days (or in the case of some PM deals weeks or months) the seller lost the opportunity to move the book to another party...perhaps even for more, but could not accept due to this prior committment. :doh:

 

Ultimately the party backing out IS probation worthy in situations like this (minus extenuating circumstances such as death, personal tragedy and the like). Sometimes, due to the seller being a nice or forgiving person they do not make the list, but ultimately I feel that the seller should have that option. (thumbs u

 

The in my mind (public or PM) is an agreement in terms being reached...not a maybe or let me think about it another week or two. It should be taken seriously with the appropriate consequences for folks who do not.

 

And to be fair, I obviously take a similar view if the seller backs out. In that case the buyer should have the opportunity to place that individual on the probation list as well.

[JazzMan]

So what are the ramifications (sorry for the big word) of backing out on a deal? If I want to buy a certain comic but then a few days later I find a cheaper deal or decide its not what I really wanted, is that probation worthy?

 

Problems have definitely been brough tup before because of these reasons.

 

If you agree to buy it with either or other verbiage, then it's a deal that should be brought to fruition. If either the seller or the buyer backs out without mutual agreement or some kind of settlement for potentially lost revenue, then I would consider that Probation Worthy.

[Peter Loves Gwen]

This is a forum with informal procedures. I really do not like any zero tolerance laws or rules, those cause many problems.

 

That being said, I think the probation list should be primarily for people who skip out on deals, they disappear for a period of time etc. The case of a deal being backed out of shortly after making it is not good, but it shouldn't instantly require somebody going on the list. Make the public notifications about it here if the wronged party feels strongly about it. Put them on the list if it's needed, but don't make this a longer list than it needs to be.

 

Things change and people make mistakes. There's a right way to apologize, and bad ways to do it. The judgment should be up to the wronged party if possible. That's what this thread is for yes?