PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[N/A]

Nothing is more important than your reputation.

 

This.

[Sqeggs]

I have no idea about this specific situation, but there are situations where concerns about a switch may be justifiable.

 

But are rarely if ever worth thinking about.

 

What I don't understand about this is why not simply offer a full refund upon the return of the book. If there was a switch is the buyer going to send back the bogus book? Probably not, since the seller would then have material proof of bad faith. I guess I would need someone to explain to me the situations in which a "switch" becomes a plausible scam.

 

Nothing to do with this case, but I'm pretty sure I can remember threads in CG where sellers had this scam or a variant of it pulled on them. You sell a high-dollar, high-grade book on eBay. The buyer claims that a beat copy of the book is what he received and insists on a full refund. Apparently not an easy scam to beat.

[N/A]

I'd be interested to hear from someone this actually happened to.

[comicdonna]

The way I see it, the seller ignored PM's from the buyer. It took a discussion here to get the seller to acknowledge the problem. The seller also has a history of taking 2 months to pay for a purchase.

 

I am hoping he sees things like this could damage his reputation here. It would apear that discussions between the buyer and seller have started. This is a good start.

[oakman29]

My thought is as follows. Until the book reaches the buyer it is the sellers responsibility. It is the job of the seller to pack the book in such a way that it should not be damaged in shipment. Personally I would either offer a partial refund to the point that would make the buyer feel good at the level of the book they received and not what was supposed to be purchased or offer a full refund minus return shipping. Just my

 

this is the kind of post that helps resolve problems, especially for a relatively new member. i've started negotiations with the other boardie, let's hope it goes well.

 

+1, it's the sellers job to make things right. That's the price of doing business. What if he did not get it at all? Would you not give a full refund?

 

of course i would, friend! and in light of this, i am trying to make things right with the buyer.

Two things then I won't say anymore about this.

1. When you are a buyer,you promptly purchase the item.

2. When you are a seller all the burden is placed on you to always make things right when/if buyer is not satisfied.

End of story.

[A.Romeo]

In response to the Zombizzy post - I am currently in talks with him now, but yes as someone pointed out, its only AFTER I made this post and another post on the general discussion page about him that I heard anything back. I'd be happy to post the history of our convo and the dates of each PM that I sent and you will see how many PM's I made with no response.

 

Funny how someone else had an issue with you as well until I made the post. I still wonder why you were able to interact with other boardies and when I PM'd you several times since March you could never return my PM's?

 

I assure you that I am not one to try to pull some kind of scam on here, If anyone else would like my scans and compare them to Zombizzys scans Id love to provide them for you. I have nothing to hide here and am offering to return the books for a full refund. I understand the concern of why someone would say the books were switched out and honestly I don't know how to prove that they weren't, the books have no bends or creases and are in good condition, these white nicks in the spine had to be there before the books were shipped, if it was shipping damage I would have seen the bags bent/dented/ripped etc, but I saw no signs of that.

[Jo Seph]

Did you get your book yet Joseph?

 

Its odd as hell that others received their books but yet you haven't and he's apparently refusing to provide you tracking. Between that and the fact he asked you to use WU not PP when others paid via PP is very, VERY suspicious.

 

Sorry man, i hope you get your book or money back

 

Still nothing. I confronted the seller regarding his statement that he did not have PayPal and he said he got it after I paid for the book. It is frustrating and I have given up on ever receiving the book. I guess this is a harsh lesson for me to not even trust the Kudos threads on these boards.

[Bosco685]

Two things then I won't say anymore about this.

1. When you are a buyer,you promptly purchase the item.

2. When you are a seller all the burden is placed on you to always make things right when/if buyer is not satisfied.

End of story.

 

I like bedtime stories like this.

[bababooey]

Did you get your book yet Joseph?

 

Its odd as hell that others received their books but yet you haven't and he's apparently refusing to provide you tracking. Between that and the fact he asked you to use WU not PP when others paid via PP is very, VERY suspicious.

 

Sorry man, i hope you get your book or money back

 

Still nothing. I confronted the seller regarding his statement that he did not have PayPal and he said he got it after I paid for the book. It is frustrating and I have given up on ever receiving the book. I guess this is a harsh lesson for me to not even trust the Kudos threads on these boards.

Well in fairness to the kudos threads & the boards in general - after being taken care of by a good seller in your "Silver Acre is selling my book on ebay " thread - at some point you have to take some responsibility for failing to protect yourself on this one. There are all kinds of shady people in this hobby, the community can only hope to create awareness of those people to help others avoid them.

 

I am still holding out hope that your book arrives and this is all just a postal issue, it's still within reason to give the benefit-of-the-doubt to longdillon1 because he has some history here and postal experiences similar to this have been shared on these boards with a happy ending. We're beyond the standard PL nomination of 30 days but I've seen transit times posted of up to 10 weeks by others using that route - so I'd say a 'failure to deliver' nomination is still pending, perhaps even a few weeks away.

 

If you want to expedite things, go the route of proving that he's lying to you. You could post any "Paypal denial PMs" and your purchase date...then others, who did business with him via Paypal, can attest to whether he is lying. You don't have to go this route, it is only an option for you to consider.

 

Updating the community on both good or bad news is appreciated. I am sympathetic to your plight when dealing with BS communication from this seller.

 

[Ryan.]

Did you get your book yet Joseph?

 

Its odd as hell that others received their books but yet you haven't and he's apparently refusing to provide you tracking. Between that and the fact he asked you to use WU not PP when others paid via PP is very, VERY suspicious.

 

Sorry man, i hope you get your book or money back

 

Still nothing. I confronted the seller regarding his statement that he did not have PayPal and he said he got it after I paid for the book. It is frustrating and I have given up on ever receiving the book. I guess this is a harsh lesson for me to not even trust the Kudos threads on these boards.

 

More data that the kudos thread here is worthless.

[sufunk]

Did you get your book yet Joseph?

 

Its odd as hell that others received their books but yet you haven't and he's apparently refusing to provide you tracking. Between that and the fact he asked you to use WU not PP when others paid via PP is very, VERY suspicious.

 

Sorry man, i hope you get your book or money back

 

Still nothing. I confronted the seller regarding his statement that he did not have PayPal and he said he got it after I paid for the book. It is frustrating and I have given up on ever receiving the book. I guess this is a harsh lesson for me to not even trust the Kudos threads on these boards.

 

More data that the kudos thread here is worthless.

 

Ditto!

 

I would love for someone to explain to me why the person that is screwing Jo seph over still gets to have a perfectly clean Kudos thread and Jo seph cant post his negative experience there

[comicdonna]

Did you get your book yet Joseph?

 

Its odd as hell that others received their books but yet you haven't and he's apparently refusing to provide you tracking. Between that and the fact he asked you to use WU not PP when others paid via PP is very, VERY suspicious.

 

Sorry man, i hope you get your book or money back

 

Still nothing. I confronted the seller regarding his statement that he did not have PayPal and he said he got it after I paid for the book. It is frustrating and I have given up on ever receiving the book. I guess this is a harsh lesson for me to not even trust the Kudos threads on these boards.

Like I said earlier, he sent me money through paypal twice, back in December.

[bababooey]

Did you get your book yet Joseph?

 

Its odd as hell that others received their books but yet you haven't and he's apparently refusing to provide you tracking. Between that and the fact he asked you to use WU not PP when others paid via PP is very, VERY suspicious.

 

Sorry man, i hope you get your book or money back

 

Still nothing. I confronted the seller regarding his statement that he did not have PayPal and he said he got it after I paid for the book. It is frustrating and I have given up on ever receiving the book. I guess this is a harsh lesson for me to not even trust the Kudos threads on these boards.

 

More data that the kudos thread here is worthless.

 

Ditto!

 

I would love for someone to explain to me why the person that is screwing Jo seph over still gets to have a perfectly clean Kudos thread and Jo seph cant post his negative experience there

Kudos - praise for achievement etc...

 

There was debate with many preferring a 'positive/negative' feedback forum but I think Arch figured that would be a *spoon-fest*.

 

I look at the kudos thread as being the same as the sales forum etiquette on price - a kudos thread or sales thread are a repository for positive comments only but both areas are "buyer beware". People who believe that we "look out for each other" on everything in those areas are acting on false assumption.

I'd even add the modern discussion forums to that list.

[sufunk]

Did you get your book yet Joseph?

 

Its odd as hell that others received their books but yet you haven't and he's apparently refusing to provide you tracking. Between that and the fact he asked you to use WU not PP when others paid via PP is very, VERY suspicious.

 

Sorry man, i hope you get your book or money back

 

Still nothing. I confronted the seller regarding his statement that he did not have PayPal and he said he got it after I paid for the book. It is frustrating and I have given up on ever receiving the book. I guess this is a harsh lesson for me to not even trust the Kudos threads on these boards.

 

More data that the kudos thread here is worthless.

 

Ditto!

 

I would love for someone to explain to me why the person that is screwing Jo seph over still gets to have a perfectly clean Kudos thread and Jo seph cant post his negative experience there

Kudos - praise for achievement etc...

 

There was debate with many preferring a 'positive/negative' feedback forum but I think Arch figured that would be a *spoon-fest*.

 

I look at the kudos thread as being the same as the sales forum etiquette on price - a kudos thread or sales thread are a repository for positive comments only but both areas are "buyer beware". People who believe that we "look out for each other" on everything in those areas are acting on false assumption.

I'd even add the modern discussion forums to that list.

 

No, i get that but i think there should be exceptions for HOS/PL offenses. Not every Kudos thread should turn into a slapfest but once you screw someone over, it should be noted in the Kudos thread imo. A lot of people dont check this thread and figure if someone has a 5 page Kudos thread, they are safe to deal with

[Ryan.]

To be fair, I never read someone's kudos thread. Because, again, they are worthless.

[bababooey]

Did you get your book yet Joseph?

 

Its odd as hell that others received their books but yet you haven't and he's apparently refusing to provide you tracking. Between that and the fact he asked you to use WU not PP when others paid via PP is very, VERY suspicious.

 

Sorry man, i hope you get your book or money back

 

Still nothing. I confronted the seller regarding his statement that he did not have PayPal and he said he got it after I paid for the book. It is frustrating and I have given up on ever receiving the book. I guess this is a harsh lesson for me to not even trust the Kudos threads on these boards.

 

More data that the kudos thread here is worthless.

 

Ditto!

 

I would love for someone to explain to me why the person that is screwing Jo seph over still gets to have a perfectly clean Kudos thread and Jo seph cant post his negative experience there

Kudos - praise for achievement etc...

 

There was debate with many preferring a 'positive/negative' feedback forum but I think Arch figured that would be a *spoon-fest*.

 

I look at the kudos thread as being the same as the sales forum etiquette on price - a kudos thread or sales thread are a repository for positive comments only but both areas are "buyer beware". People who believe that we "look out for each other" on everything in those areas are acting on false assumption.

I'd even add the modern discussion forums to that list.

 

No, i get that but i think there should be exceptions for HOS/PL offenses. Not every Kudos thread should turn into a slapfest but once you screw someone over, it should be noted in the Kudos thread imo. A lot of people dont check this thread and figure if someone has a 5 page Kudos thread, they are safe to deal with

So your point is that once someone (who has a kudos thread) goes on the PL then someone adds a "link" to the first post here that led to their nomination? Something like probation link in their kudos thread?

 

As long as that was all that went there I don't think it would be a problem if you think boardies check there rather than here.

 

I don't think ryanatlas would check there though? @ryan

[Ryan.]

I wouldn't check there, no. I would keep checking here like I have been. #duediligence

[crassus]

To be fair, I never read someone's kudos thread. Because, again, they are worthless.

 

It is too much to say the Kudos thread and all its contents are worthless, imperfect and incomplete yes, worthless no.

 

The advantage to limiting negative feedback to the PL forum is that it ensures that the problem is something serious and substantive about a specific transaction and not just gossip and person_without_enough_empathying or the use of the threat of negative feedback to leverage deals.

 

At least here in the PL it is a discussion and there is peer pressure to substantiate claims, to provide timelines, if necessary to provide visual evidence of some kind and above all to demonstrate that one is being reasonable.

 

 

[Ryan.]

All it takes is one really bad transaction to nullify a thousand positive transactions. If that bad transaction is not allowed to be mentioned in a feedback thread then the positive transactions will not be very instructive.

 

When I complete a transaction and the other person asks that I provide them kudos I gladly comply. But adding my "Great transaction! A+++!!!111" to the other dozen in the person's feedback doesn't exactly provide much value without a way to appropriately contextualize it.

 

If others find utility in the kudos thread, that's great. I, myself, do not.

 

Incidentally, David Ortiz just dropped a major "F bomb" on live TV. I wonder if NESN will apologize...

[crassus]

All it takes is one really bad transaction to nullify a thousand positive transactions. If that bad transaction is not allowed to be mentioned in a feedback thread then the positive transactions will not be very instructive.

 

When I complete a transaction and the other person asks that I provide them kudos I gladly comply. But adding my "Great transaction! A+++!!!111" to the other dozen in the person's feedback doesn't exactly provide much value without a way to appropriately contextualize it.

 

If others find utility in the kudos thread, that's great. I, myself, do not.

 

Generally, agreed.

 

My concern is that negative feedback also needs context, but being negative it creates much more damage and is subject to much more abuse.There are many possible reasons a person may be unhappy with a transaction, but not all of them will be generally or universally valid.

 

So I'm saying that for the negative feedback to be both useful and fair it must be about only such things as, if true, would be viewed as negative by all or at least by most- so a stricter criteria and it should have to be justified. I see the PL process as providing that context.