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eBay...FAIL!

Started by trmoore54,

532 posts in this topic

Remark

Remark

Posted
Posted

 

Now I know why they say, "The law is an ".Are there any attorneys out there who have some expertise in this area, at least for an opinion as to this being fraud?On the surface, it sure seems patently fraudulent to try to re-sell something that you know to be worth less among the circle of people who are your customers, ie.,restored books passing as unrestored. I do not know if a prosecutor would have a tough time qualifying an expert as to the value of any book, or whether he/she would have to first educate a potential jury about the difference in value between a restored book vs an unrestored one, but it seems to me no different than the example cited about diamonds and CZs. If one has to get into a defense of the value of an unrestored book, then one should also have to defend the value of a diamond and how DeBeers controls THAT market (I actually heard that repeated recently at an diamond store recently where the salesperson stated that they (the store) didn't set pricing- DeBeers did). CGC is in a similar position in that while they do not control supply, they are the industry standard by which comics are graded, and hence, valued. That seems the to me to be the primary argument that needs to be made.I agree with the statements regarding simple grading, where that really is a matter of opinion, even if you knowingly resell a CGC book as a higher grade, but the restored book scam should be a slam dunk, or am I missing something?

 

CGC is the authority to you and maybe board members here. Maybe PGX will grade it at a higher grade. I don't think it's about over-grading these books. It's about the intentional misrepresentation of restored books.

 

A typical criminal complaint goes like this: The police file an incident report. It could be handed to a detective that knows something about this area. It then goes through the system and lands an an ADAs desk. The ADA decides if there is enough to get an indictment on and if it's worth the time. Remember at any time this complaint can be, what we called when I was a cop, SIHT-Canned. If it gets as far as a Grand Jury it's an almost guaranteed indictment. In real life an ADA can indict a cat for barking. Now their lawyers and the ADA go back and forth to almost guarantee it never sees a courtroom. They would have to agree to restitution and get a slap on the wrist. This is how the court systems work. Once you're in it, it sucks. As long as you have the money to pay your attorney and are dealing with non-violent crimes you're not going to go to jail unless you really pissed someone off. Do you see all of this unfolding for a few hundred dollar scam? I don't.

 

Educating a jury would be a tough job. Walk up to an average 70 year old man and tell him you just paid $1500 for a comic book. He'll look at you and probably mention that bridge they have for sale in Brooklyn. The idea of the case would be fraud, but you need 100% of the jury agreeing for a conviction. There will be some people on that jury having trouble processing the idea that a 10 cent comic sold for $2000 when it was only worth $1000, but it says 10 cents.

 

I think the DeBeers issues are with unfair competition and price fixing. You can't price fix. It happened with gas stations a while back. They were setting all of their prices a few cents higher and were caught.

 

Well the analogy with DeBeers was only to illustrate how grade and supply/demand set the price of both diamonds as well as comics. In the case with Debeers, since they control most of the diamond supply (but not the grade), they can control the price somewhat. On the other hand, CGC (and to a lesser extent- PGX) sets the grade, but obviously these companies have no control over supply. But then the supply (whether artificial or real)-of the commodity- diamonds or comics-sets the price. Any jury should be able to understand that (I would hope)

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passion4comics

passion4comics

Posted
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I just received an email about the fabulous 4. I sent it via postal to their corporate headquarters and they emailed me back. I guess they don't have stamps there and they assumed that the name on the complaint was me the ebay user when I tied no links between the two. I made a direct reference to Ebay being named in the complaint to the Att Gens office and that them being aware of their activities pending the outcome Ebay would be held equally liable in a claim made by a user in court after this.

 

I checked their accounts and from what I can tell they have nothing listed. Is this normal for them or did Ebay actually do something? Did I check their for sale items correctly?

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InvstmntComcSuply

InvstmntComcSuply

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Although, I would not break out the champagne just yet. They have been NARUED before and have come back. Additionally, if they have not already set up dummy accounts, it should take at least 10 minutes to do so, and then we have to do all the detective work to track them down again.

 

 

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supapimp

supapimp

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Posted
Although, I would not break out the champagne just yet. They have been NARUED before and have come back. Additionally, if they have not already set up dummy accounts, it should take at least 10 minutes to do so, and then we have to do all the detective work to track them down again.

 

 

yes. but if they keep continue to get shut down, they'll have a hard time building feedback. keep fighting the good fight. i hear robojo33 likes cockmeat sammiches too.

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iggy

iggy

Posted
Posted
I just received an email about the fabulous 4. I sent it via postal to their corporate headquarters and they emailed me back. I guess they don't have stamps there and they assumed that the name on the complaint was me the ebay user when I tied no links between the two. I made a direct reference to Ebay being named in the complaint to the Att Gens office and that them being aware of their activities pending the outcome Ebay would be held equally liable in a claim made by a user in court after this.

 

I checked their accounts and from what I can tell they have nothing listed. Is this normal for them or did Ebay actually do something? Did I check their for sale items correctly?

 

They recently listed a TTA 27 which I have a search saved for through email notifications. Although I was not planning on winning it, I threw in a low tracking bid on it, and today got this message from ebay:

 

We're writing to let you know that we removed the listing for the following item that you won or bid on:

 

220688139287 - Tales to Astonish #27 1st Ant-Man Fine 6.0 1962 Beauty

 

To help protect you, we removed this listing so we can confirm that the seller is not putting you or other eBay members at risk.

 

If you've already paid for this item through eBay, you can open a case in our Resolution Center to get your money back. All you need to do is click the link below, and select the "I haven't received it yet" option. This will guide you through the process to get a refund. (Unfortunately, because we removed the listing, you won't be able to look up the seller's contact information.)

 

http://resolutioncenter.ebay.com

 

If you won the item but haven't paid yet, don't pay for it.

 

If the seller offers you the item outside of eBay, we strongly encourage you to not accept the offer. These types of transactions are extremely risky and are not covered by eBay buyer protection programs.

 

If you didn't pay through eBay, please read the following information:

 

-- If you paid by Western Union or MoneyGram, contact the company directly (Western Union 800-325-6000 or MoneyGram 800-926-9400).

-- If you paid by check, contact your bank to stop payment.

-- If you paid by credit card, contact your credit card company to dispute the charge.

 

We want to make sure you get your money back safely and quickly.

 

Sincerely,

 

eBay Trust & Safety team

 

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Warren Oates

Warren Oates

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Nice to see somebody finally got to ebay. Looks like they just sold some big books too. Wonder what happens when those AF 15's come restored, and the buyer no longer has a seller to complain to. Amazing how dangerous comic collecting can be.

 

To Chris and buddies, you had a nice run, hope you enjoyed every penny you scammed.

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passion4comics

passion4comics

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Part of it:

 

Re: Intent to file with California Attorney General’s office

 

Ebay has been alerted by its complaint process of several users working together to commit fraud using your website. Ebay to date has not investigated or prevented these persons from continuing their activities. Ebay is going to be named in this complaint along with John Doe sellers using the accounts:

 

• Makemeanofferandwin

• lexerific

• aram321

• cdpaoli

 

These users, which may be one user that has four accounts, will buy collectible comic books that are usually professionally restored and then sell them out of their sealed graded cases as un-restored. Taking a comic out of its graded protected case is called “cracking” and is common with these collectibles to defraud a potential buyer. These users have bought restored comics on eBay and then sold them as un-restored and have made tens of thousands of dollars in the process by misrepresentation and fraud. These users have also “cracked” un-restored books and sold them at higher grades than their certifications allow.

 

Restoration is not detectable to the untrained eye. Restoration is more viable under light from 200nm-400nm because of the difference in luminescence. Most buyers would not be aware they have a restored book, which is usually worth only 10% of its un-restored value, until they send it out for professional grading.

 

Ebay has been alerted thought its complaint process by several users and the discussion of their activities has been cataloged through several websites where collectors congregate. Evidence within these collector web sites show high resolution scans of restored comics sold to one of the above users (crease lines, imperfections and other identifiable items) and then shows these users selling the same book identified by the above as “un-restored” under another of the above names. Like a fingerprint, it is very unlikely that an identified comic by its imperfections is not the same ones that these users are selling; especially when it’s a reoccurring event.

 

Because of the costs of these collectibles, which can exceed $1,000 and encroach $10,000, their state of residence being the same as Ebay, this is an issue for the state attorney general of California. Because Ebay was alerted and these users were allowed to continue, Ebay may also be held accountable if financial restitution to these buyers if required.

 

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Offbeat Archives

Offbeat Archives

Posted
Posted

Holy *spoon*! Great *spooning* work, Rob! You, and your *spoon* awesome footwork did the trick for now. I'm pretty sure there's more than a few of us that'd love to pick up the tab on dinner and a bunch of *spooning* brews at a Con someday. *Spooning* excellent work!

:golfclap::headbang:

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