Bad transaction between me and Forum member GreatEscape

[Flaming_Telepath]

Anyone that has an "ebay grade" and then an actual grade is someone who is knowingly and intentionally misrepresenting books.

 

Guy is a complete steaming pile of mess.

I would like to know Dino, why you put one grade on a book here and another, higher grade, on eBay.

 

All the other hubub with Andy (and Im glad it got fixed although it should have never gotten this far) is clouding over the blatant eBay misrepresentation of grades.

 

I am intrigued by this as well. This just makes me sad.

 

Really think (like i said 45 posts ago) this one should be left. It shouldn't have come this far (for Andy to have to come to the boards for assistance) but now it has been resolved. Keep poking at something thats fixed and you break it again!!!

 

Sorry, but whilst Andy is 'fixed', this issue isn't.

 

A book is a certain grade, irrespective of where it is being sold. The question of how this book becomes 'better' when appearing on eBay is still important.

 

Important to Dino's rep, that is, and also to potential future buyers, I would think.

 

then start a thread about overgrading (im sure there's not been one before!!!)...don't make this just about Dino...how many times have i personally bought a comic off ebay, fingers crossed, hoping it will arrived at the grade advertised, only to be disappointed...

 

No, this is a thread about an overgraded book sold by a board member. It appears that the board member in question is running an 'eBay grade' system.

 

This is the ideal place to address this troubling issue. (thumbs u

[GACollectibles]

 

No, this is a thread about an overgraded book sold by a board member. It appears that the board member in question is running an 'eBay grade' system.

 

This is the ideal place to address this troubling issue. (thumbs u

 

(thumbs u

 

[VintageComics]

Heck I had a Bronze book I recently sold in our selling forum as a CGC 9.0 get resubbed by a boardie and it came back 9.6 and I'm out $600 difference. It happens.

 

 

Redo the math, you are out $0.

 

 

It was a I'm out $600 difference.

 

I agree that I am out $0.

 

(thumbs u

[comics-rock]

Anyone that has an "ebay grade" and then an actual grade is someone who is knowingly and intentionally misrepresenting books.

 

Guy is a complete steaming pile of mess.

I would like to know Dino, why you put one grade on a book here and another, higher grade, on eBay.

 

All the other hubub with Andy (and Im glad it got fixed although it should have never gotten this far) is clouding over the blatant eBay misrepresentation of grades.

 

I am intrigued by this as well. This just makes me sad.

 

Really think (like i said 45 posts ago) this one should be left. It shouldn't have come this far (for Andy to have to come to the boards for assistance) but now it has been resolved. Keep poking at something thats fixed and you break it again!!!

 

Sorry, but whilst Andy is 'fixed', this issue isn't.

 

A book is a certain grade, irrespective of where it is being sold. The question of how this book becomes 'better' when appearing on eBay is still important.

 

Important to Dino's rep, that is, and also to potential future buyers, I would think.

 

then start a thread about overgrading (im sure there's not been one before!!!)...don't make this just about Dino...how many times have i personally bought a comic off ebay, fingers crossed, hoping it will arrived at the grade advertised, only to be disappointed...

 

But was that due to someone who intentionally misrepresents the grades or doesn't really understand how to grade properly in the first place? Its a valid point as in this case it was admittedly intentional. It's shifty.

 

i know...and its he only reason i buy over the counter, off people ive bought before or books already slabbed (or off these boards)....this 'business' used to be about me rushing down to the local newsagents as a kid, buying one book from a small selection of about ten, (usually 'Det Comics' or 'Dragons Claws' but I loved it!!!) rushing home and reading it repeatedly....now its all becoming very seeded. Im sure Dino knows that he misrepresented that comic to ebayers but got caught out by a boardee and hes making restitution. He didn't argue the point (much), but whatever he does now his reputations has taken a bit of a hit. Lets leave it at that. You want to talk about overgrading, start another thread and don't target one board member for making one mistake that we know of. (Does anyone have a photo of a dead horse getting flogged...I couldn't find one!)

 

PS I agree its sh1tty when yu get screwed on a book you've been looking for, but it has happened to every member of this forum at one time or another

[goldust40]

Payment of $750 has been received by Paypal...just wanted to confirm that that closes the transaction.

[Sal]

good luck with your future sale to help collect the rest of the $ you're out, goldy!

[Comic_Diva]

Atta girl Lauren... (thumbs u

 

[GreatEscape]

Anyone that has an "ebay grade" and then an actual grade is someone who is knowingly and intentionally misrepresenting books.

 

Guy is a complete steaming pile of mess.

I would like to know Dino, why you put one grade on a book here and another, higher grade, on eBay.

 

All the other hubub with Andy (and Im glad it got fixed although it should have never gotten this far) is clouding over the blatant eBay misrepresentation of grades.

 

 

Andy has been paid and thankfully we've reconciled and moving on.

 

Needless to say, this has been a painful and humiliating experience for me and I'm ready to move on. However, I think I should address the last question since the eBay grading represents a bigger issue for many ... if my response helps lead to a better forum selling environment, I'm good getting kicked again while I'm down.

 

As a GA collector, I prefer CGC-graded books and rarely offer raw books here since IMO boardies are in general more experienced, discriminating and bargain-oriented than other collectors. Since grading is less black-and-white than CGC grades, my raw books mostly go to eBay and slabs find their way into fun and engaging selling threads:

 

Recent Sales Thread

 

When I list raw books on eBay, I use Overstreet guidelines but also rely on the dealer/boardie grades given when I bought the book (and I'll admit the Subby #2 was especially challenging to grade as evidenced by our grading forum opinions). I'm proud of my stellar track record on eBay (1500+, 100% ) and comfortable with my grading standards.

 

Per CGC Forum rules, I don't have simultaneous listings here and elsewhere, but if my eBay listings don't sell I often post it here-- always at a reduced price and in some cases a lower grade (maybe twice out of 200 cases?) if my ebay listing did not attract bids for grading considerations. Most of the time the grade is the same.

 

That said, I can say emphatically that:

 

1) I have NEVER offered a raw book here with a higher grade vs. eBay

2) I have NEVER offered a raw book here with a higher price vs. eBay

 

If anyone can suggest a better approach, I'll consider it. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

[Scrooge]

It wasn't a new boardie, it was dekeuk. Flat out admitted it.

 

Thanks. I couldn't remember who it was.

[qualitycomix]

Anyone that has an "ebay grade" and then an actual grade is someone who is knowingly and intentionally misrepresenting books.

 

Guy is a complete steaming pile of mess.

I would like to know Dino, why you put one grade on a book here and another, higher grade, on eBay.

 

All the other hubub with Andy (and Im glad it got fixed although it should have never gotten this far) is clouding over the blatant eBay misrepresentation of grades.

 

Per CGC Forum rules, I don't have simultaneous listings here and elsewhere, but if my eBay listings don't sell I often post it here-- always at a reduced price and in some cases a lower grade if my ebay listing did not attract bids for grading considerations. Most of the time the grade is the same.

 

If anyone can suggest a better approach, I'll consider it. Thanks.

 

 

The better approach is grade the same here and ebay - accurately to the best of your grading knowledge and abilities.

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

The better approach is grade the same here and ebay - accurately to the best of your grading knowledge and abilities.

 

Amen.

 

I'd also like to say that Brent recently listed a collection on eBay that was very high grade structurally but with some serious tanning issues. I thought it was outstanding how he not only fully described the problem but also designed the listings to draw attention to the pq problems to make sure that everyone knew what they were bidding on.

 

Marc

[skypinkblu]

Anyone that has an "ebay grade" and then an actual grade is someone who is knowingly and intentionally misrepresenting books.

 

Guy is a complete steaming pile of mess.

I would like to know Dino, why you put one grade on a book here and another, higher grade, on eBay.

 

All the other hubub with Andy (and Im glad it got fixed although it should have never gotten this far) is clouding over the blatant eBay misrepresentation of grades.

 

 

Andy has been paid and thankfully we've reconciled and moving on.

 

Needless to say, this has been a painful and humiliating experience for me and I'm ready to move on. However, I think I should address the last question since the eBay grading represents a bigger issue for many ... if my response helps lead to a better forum selling environment, I'm good getting kicked again while I'm down.

 

As a GA collector, I prefer CGC-graded books and rarely offer raw books here since IMO boardies are in general more experienced, discriminating and bargain-oriented than other collectors. Since grading is less black-and-white than CGC grades, my raw books mostly go to eBay and slabs find their way into fun and engaging selling threads:

 

Recent Sales Thread

 

When I list raw books on eBay, I use Overstreet guidelines but also rely on the dealer/boardie grades given when I bought the book (and I'll admit the Subby #2 was especially challenging to grade as evidenced by our grading forum opinions). I'm proud of my stellar track record on eBay (1500+, 100% ) and comfortable with my grading standards.

 

Per CGC Forum rules, I don't have simultaneous listings here and elsewhere, but if my eBay listings don't sell I often post it here-- always at a reduced price and in some cases a lower grade if my ebay listing did not attract bids for grading considerations. Most of the time the grade is the same.

 

That said, I can say emphatically that:

 

1) I have NEVER offered a raw book here with a higher grade vs. eBay

2) I have NEVER offered a raw book here with a higher price vs. eBay

 

If anyone can suggest a better approach, I'll consider it. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

Dino, while I can certainly understand a price difference. I can't understand a grade difference :shrug: I think that is the issue...and since I'm also a low grade collector ...I can emphatically say, there is a huge difference between VG/F and GD+.

 

I understand a mistake, really, I do, that's why there are erasers on pencils (or were;) ...but each time someone treats Ebay and this board differently it gives people an opportunity to bash Ebay sellers. *I* find it embarrassing, as I am SURE, the MANY other honest Ebay sellers do as well.

 

If you think a book is VG, well, then it's VG wherever you post it, Comic Link, here, Ebay...or at your garage sale.

 

[Dick Pontoon]

It wasn't a new boardie, it was dekeuk. Flat out admitted it.

 

Thanks. I couldn't remember who it was.

 

For everyone who wants to relive that glorious thread or for those who missed it, here it is.

[G.A.tor]

not that it is totally non relevant... but a book with split pages will get the brittle designation (even if the rest of the page itself is white and supple)...

an otherwise 6.0 or better looking book will only cgc grade in the 3.0 range if brittle pages are designated (again, this is not page color, but page quality)...

an otherwise 5.0 or so will generally get a 2.5 if brittle pages...

 

now, what I would like to see, is the pages themselves!...if dino called them ow, and andy says they are tan to cream, well, that is a color differential that should be easily seen and discerned...

 

if the page color is cr/ow ish, but split, then cgc would designate as brittle, even though they "look" cr/ow... thus dragging the grade down significantlyl...

 

does that make sense?

[skypinkblu]

not that it is totally non relevant... but a book with split pages will get the brittle designation (even if the rest of the page itself is white and supple)...

an otherwise 6.0 or better looking book will only cgc grade in the 3.0 range if brittle pages are designated (again, this is not page color, but page quality)...

an otherwise 5.0 or so will generally get a 2.5 if brittle pages...

 

now, what I would like to see, is the pages themselves!...if dino called them ow, and andy says they are tan to cream, well, that is a color differential that should be easily seen and discerned...

 

if the page color is cr/ow ish, but split, then cgc would designate as brittle, even though they "look" cr/ow... thus dragging the grade down significantlyl...

 

does that make sense?

 

I've seen lots of books with "white" pages, and split spines, but if the spine was split, shouldn't that have been noted? Not just the cover, the pages?

I can't see how there could be any question about a VG/F with split PAGEs, CGC or Little Stevie Wonder, wouldn't grade it that way.

 

[DiceX]

I'd like to think if I bought a book on eBay that was being sold by a board member, that I could trust the grading to be the same as if I bought it from them here.

Their reputation carries over, and I would hope they realized what they do over there reflects upon them here.

 

 

[Scrooge]

I've seen lots of books with "white" pages, and split spines, but if the spine was split, shouldn't that have been noted? Not just the cover, the pages?

 

It should. In my mind, when someone mentions a spine split, I read it as only the cover. If the split goes into the pages, it should be mentioned in addition to the spine split notation. The grade and value of the books differ in those cases. I know I have bought some books (one I recall quite clearly) where spine split was mentioned and the whole fricking spine was split

[G.A.tor]

not that it is totally non relevant... but a book with split pages will get the brittle designation (even if the rest of the page itself is white and supple)...

an otherwise 6.0 or better looking book will only cgc grade in the 3.0 range if brittle pages are designated (again, this is not page color, but page quality)...

an otherwise 5.0 or so will generally get a 2.5 if brittle pages...

 

now, what I would like to see, is the pages themselves!...if dino called them ow, and andy says they are tan to cream, well, that is a color differential that should be easily seen and discerned...

 

if the page color is cr/ow ish, but split, then cgc would designate as brittle, even though they "look" cr/ow... thus dragging the grade down significantlyl...

 

does that make sense?

 

I've seen lots of books with "white" pages, and split spines, but if the spine was split, shouldn't that have been noted? Not just the cover, the pages?

I can't see how there could be any question about a VG/F with split PAGEs, CGC or Little Stevie Wonder, wouldn't grade it that way.

correct... I don't recall anyone mentioning that the split pages were also noted...maybe dino didn't notice, I have no idea...

 

but a 2" spine split can still get a 7.0 or better ...and 2 spine splits can still get in the vg "range"... but, not if the pages are split...so, are the pages split because they are "truly" brittle, or did the split pages get designated as "brittle", even though they might not be...

 

only dino or andy can answer that, and I don't think either has yet (just curiosity on my part)

[VintageComics]

 

but a 2" spine split can still get a 7.0 or better ...and 2 spine splits can still get in the vg "range"... but, not if the pages are split...so, are the pages split because they are "truly" brittle, or did the split pages get designated as "brittle", even though they might not be...

 

only dino or andy can answer that, and I don't think either has yet (just curiosity on my part)

 

My Captain America Comics #3 CGC 5.0 looks like a VF but has a split spine that goes into the pages. PQ is C/OW

 

As an interesting side note my Motion Pictures Funnies Weekly #1 is a CGC 7.5 with O/W pages but the book was restored/conserved (MP)to fix brittleness by mending every wrap from cover to centerfold. Every copy except for the pay copy supposedly suffers from brittle pages and the non mended copies that were certified have graded in the 4.0-5.5 range by CGC.

 

The mending looks to have been done just on the apex of the spine (the work is impeccable).

 

The reason that I mention this is two fold...

 

a) Page Quality really may NOT have a direct relation to paper structure (ie the O/W book, the one with the better page quality had the brittleness)

b) You can have a book that is not brittle and still have a spine split that extends well into the book and it can be a VG or higher book (acc. to CGC anyway).

 

I have also seen books go from brittle to non brittle designatons and vice versa upon resub. I can't remember specific examples but I do know they exist.

 

The discussion of grade is going to be somewhat subjective because of all the factors involved...time, distance, opinion, perspective, etc.

 

I personally feel that CGC should call the grade as a structural desigantion and NOT factor the brittleness into the grade but rather notate it clearly along side the grade but that is just me. It becomes almost too grey of an area when you muddy the waters by factoring in PQ and PC into the grade.

 

The real problem was the return policy and that should have been stated up front for all bidders to see. Then it would have been clear cut.

 

(thumbs u

 

R.

 

 

[Jeffro.]

Payment of $750 has been received by Paypal...just wanted to confirm that that closes the transaction.

 

 

Glad it worked out Andy.